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Old 05-06-2014, 01:19 PM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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Aw... thanks. I'm flattered my writing resonates for you.

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Old 05-09-2014, 11:06 AM
copperhead copperhead is offline
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Amazing. This whole morning I've been thinking about some frineds and if their polything is going the way it should or if I'm feeling bad about the situation because I'm projecting something on it. And then I read your entry ON GENERAL "HAPPY" and "PITFALLS" and the pitfall 8 says exactly what I've been feeling. Not enough mindfulness. Thank you for gathering all this information in one place
Me: female, solo poly, two children.
Mir: Lover-friend, with wife and child
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Old 09-11-2014, 03:25 PM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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This snippet is from this thread:

How about a visual aid all can look at?


And some expanded definitions of those things?

Then y'all can just read and point on the circles to determine the (X, Y, but not Z) for each person at this point in time and what they are ok with it becoming in future for each mini-couple within the larger three people thing. See what lines up and what does not in terms of love share and sex share.
I've shared that visual aid with other people before in real life who struggle to name a relationship they have no word for. I hadn't looked at it in a while, but when I did I had to come to some terms myself.

That it is "empty love" right now with Leaf. I don't really respect much about Leaf's way of going right now. And I know from my previous break ups that it is hard for me to feel love for someone I do not respect. At best? Empty Love for a while. But my experience of that's like living on the camel's hump -- previously stored love, goodwill, respect. It will eventually pitter out if nothing new is being generated to refill or replenish.

Leaf contacted me after months of silence. I was actually doing better without Leaf in my life. Calmer, moved on. Less drained and anxious. Weight lifted from shoulders.

If I start with myself and make rings going outwards in terms of intimacy circles?
  • I am the bullseye. Nobody can know me better than me -- I'm in here. All the time. I cannot escape my feelings or my thoughts. I get them unfiltered, 24/7. I cannot go be somewhere else.
  • Next person out is DH. Using those visual aids? He shares mind intimacy, body intimacy, spirit intimacy. The norm is I see him daily. So daily we shower together and he scrubs my back. So daily I set out his pills in the morning.
  • Next persons out would be offspring and close friends. I don't share body intimacy like sex or showers with any of them. But I do share close thoughts, they've seen me in pajamas. Leaf used to live in this ring of intimacy. People I might talk to daily or weekly. Up to date on my comings and goings and meaningful events of my life and they occur. Major and minor.
  • Next persons out are extended relatives, more casual friends, people I might see weekly or once a month. Not as up to date but major highlights.
  • Next persons out are the annuals -- holiday card people. Think nice thoughts about them and wish them well, but not super tight. Leaf is here now for me.
  • I could keep making rings further and further out from me all the way to "total strangers" circle.

I just didn't want to deal in Leaf drama any more. I hit my maximum on destructive interference.
  • He doesn't want to change his behaviors.
  • I don't want to deal in the results of those behaviors in my daily/weekly living.

Solution for us to be in right relationship? Distance. Moved him out some intimacy circles and solved my problem. If he wants to be like this, I cannot have him this close. I am ok with him on the outer annual contact holiday card ring frequency.

I asked what changed when he contacted me. He started stonewalling me. I can only conclude that he has not gotten help, does not intend to. Nothing changed.

Why on earth I would want to go "Yay! Sign me up for more of "the same old shit, different day" so I can enjoy large helpings of stress and drama again?" I get that Leaf misses me. I also miss Leaf. He does not get that I do not miss being around him behaving like that.

He's only thinking "I want access to Galagirl again." I am thinking "Access to Galagirl in a way that is HEALTHY for Galagirl or UNHEALTHY for Galagirl?" Because while more Galagirl in his life might be awesome for Leaf? I do not see at this time how more of unchanged Leaf is awesome for Galagirl!

I'm not going to out Leaf's problems, but I see it being the same with many issues -- abuse, alcohol, chronic lying, drugs, gambling, illnesses -- things that happen in Life. Things that can erode good relationships if left to go haywire levels.

I was feeling better. Then when I wrote that reply I found myself viewing the visual. Next I found myself trying to reconcile "companionate love" with Leaf against present day concerns and I came to realize "Nope. Give it up. Call it what it is... Used to be Companionate but now it is Empty Love."

There's still some commitment to the friendship there. That much I know. Of what duration? That I do not know yet. I feel myself growing cooler. I cannot tell yet if it is cooler like "time out" or like "it's over." Time will show. On the camel hump.

Leaf isn't a healthy person to be around right now. Leaf can be toxic. I don't enjoy toxic in a friendship, and I certainly would not enjoy it in a lover. Moving him a few circles closer IN would not be good for me. Hence moving him OUT. Reduce frequency and exposure and thus reduce stress.

"Empty Love" is not a permanent parking spot for me. It is a caution zone. I know me. It goes one of two ways for me: step it up on effort and I move Leaf back in some closer rings. Or I keep leading my life and do not do anything about investing much energy into the relationship. I really do grow cool. If Leaf does nothing either? Because other people make happier, constructive ripples in my life Leaf could wash further out on the ripple effect. I'm not paddling towards him any. He's not paddling towards me any. Life happens and the process of detachment sets in.

Reminds me of Ripple Tanks. And this video seemed to sum up how I feel about that --


"There are places where the waves add up -- constructive interference.
Off to one side you see you get destructive interference. The waves are out of phase there, they cancel out. Destructive interference. "
"We can change the frequency - which in turn means changing the wave length."
"If we increase the frequency, the lines of interference lines get closer together. We can't go too high, because we burn the motor out."
I was burning out on Leaf and the frequent destructive interruptions to my life.
I am still burnt out. I want space. I don't know if that's repairable or what at this point in time.

All I can say now is that it's parked in "Empty Love" for me and not so much "Companionate Love." That is where I am at today. If asked where I would like it to go in future? It's a big ol' meh.

I am ok with it going to non-love. Be a memory. No longer active.

I am ok with it (with effort from Leaf) returning to (Liking) but I want to see it to believe it.

I'm not sure on Companionate Love any more. (Liking + commitment.)

Ms Logic: I could just spend it elsewhere that gives me more return on the investment.

Ms Emotion: See? I'm cooling off. Sigh. And it isn't that I feel bad about it. I feel bad I don't feel worse about it. I feel indifferent.


Last edited by GalaGirl; 09-11-2014 at 04:14 PM.
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Old 09-24-2014, 06:55 PM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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Excerpt I wanted to save from this thread.

I feel this whole ideal of "equality" is just another way of making poly "shinier" than anything else. It's the wrong word and it gives a wrong impression!
I think people sometimes trip up on the words "fair" and "equal." Every time this comes up, I think of this picture:


The people in that 2nd picture are treated fairly -- they all can see the ball game. They are not treated equally -- not all of them needs a box to stand on to see over the fence.

Sometimes arrangements can be both "fair and equal" for the participants "at this time." They are ok with it and it meets their needs that way for now.

Sometimes arrangements can be "fair but not equal" for the participants "at this time." They are ok with it and it meets their needs that way for now.

Time can change a situation. It is up to the participants to sort all that out as they go along over time. I would not give the key to my house to someone I just started dating, but an older established dating partner might have it already. Why? Because over time they may have earned that privilege with me. It isn't that the new person cannot earn it too... over TIME.

Time can change a situation in other ways. Maybe someone's mother died -- time management changes. Maybe someone is taking a college class this term. Things change yet again. It is up to the participants to sort all that out as they go along over time.

I may care for the happiness of my partner, but if mine is also to be equally as important and I foresee a situation like the above, I would be really freaking crazy to put my couple at risk by accepting that my partner should have an "equal" partnership to ours with another person.
it only makes sense to split equally once the new relationship has had time to mature.
If you have a natural preference for a primary-secondary model to start and change co-primary or something else later? Just say so up front to all. You are allowed to have a preference. You are allowed to have personal boundaries. You are responsible for knowing and stating you wants, needs, hard limits, soft limits so other people can know what those might be.

Before going there with these people? You could also agree on how to break up, if a break up has to happen for some unforeseen reason. Even down to everyone single again! Then everyone is entering into relationship with eyes wide open. They know the deal breakers. They know what to expect in the event of a break up.

Otherwise, could not go there with those people who do NOT agree. Keeps things simpler on you.

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Old 12-03-2014, 10:45 PM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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This is an excerpt from this thread.

I am sorry you struggle.

You could repeat back what you hear him say. And ask him if he means X. Get some clarification.

But in general you sound like you tried to give opportunity to talk. He does not want to. So... Could tell him if he changes his mind, you are willing if he wants to make a talking date for later. Then go to bf house as current agreements stand.

You cannot be a mind reader. And if how he communicates does not serve him well, he could learn another way to communicate his wants/needs/limits so he can be better understood by other people. You cannot do his communicating for him.

Believe him at face value:

He says he doesn't care that I am seeing my bf mebbe tonight or tomorrow night
I know you do not think that is the truth, but rather than trying to mind reader him? Could let him own it. Take it at face value and later if that was not it? Who is responsible for speaking his truth? Him.

It simply might take a few cases of "being taken at my word" and dealing within the consequences to get him to start saying what he means and mean what he says in the first place.

Could weather that out and see if he can take personal responsibility for his communication.

Things with Leaf and I are at impasse. He said something things. I told him I would take it at face value and left it at that.

Do I actually believe it? At this time? Nope. It is more this whole concept being revisited in my personal life --- and it is worth blocking out again to me.
It simply might take a few cases of "being taken at my word" and dealing within the consequences to get him to start saying what he means and mean what he says in the first place.

Based on past experience, I don't actually have confidence it will happen with Leaf. But I am content to step back and let Leaf experience his natural consequences and figure his own self out.

I've had it happen before with other people who wanted me to mind reader them, read between the lines, etc. Just not up for that game. It is lazy relating, like I'm supposed to carry them? Ew. They want to avoid taking personal responsibility or avoid being held accountable to their Word? Double ew.

I'll just take it at face value. Less work for me.

And if that behavior of mine results in things they did not like or want? Tough. Can't act out at me about it. I did what I could with info given. Who gave me the info? You.

Shoo! Go act out at yourself for not having a reliable Word. Could say what you mean. And really mean what you say. Then maybe next time it goes more the way you hope when you are direct, decisive, and honest about giving clear communication about your wants and needs.

I think that's an important character trait polyshipping wise. I so dislike namby pamby. Meh.


Last edited by GalaGirl; 12-03-2014 at 10:48 PM.
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Old 01-23-2015, 05:44 PM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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Amused in the not-funny way. More lather, rinse, repeat.

Leaf pops up again. I ask up front for clarification. Not playing with you till I have some answers first. Silence again from Leaf. Then token effort effort again. Then silence again when I repeatedly hold up the boundary -- reminding there's unanswered questions still. I don't play till I have some answers. Back into silence we go.

Nothing happening here I didn't expect. It's like I'm being tested to see if the boundary will still hold. It's holding. This is easy for me. Lather, rinse, repeat. No brainer.

Emotionally? I continue move on without him. I continue to detach. I continue to grow cool. I continue to get more comfortable not putting energy into that relationship. I continue to just go about living my normal life and feeling pretty happy.

I always wonder about people who are unwilling/scared/upset at letting things go. Including relationships. Maybe it's about experiencing the feelings of loss. It isn't fun for me, and "dealing with a break up" isn't what I want to be doing like "Yay! Let's bake cookies!" But I view enforcing boundaries as a healthy, necessary thing.

So... it is what it is. He does not respect my boundaries and does not tell me he will make better effort to do so in future? Then I cannot allow myself to hang around him. He is not trustworthy for helping to keep me safe. So I will do keep me safe by keeping my distance.

Short and sweet. Easy peasy.

It important skill for anyone, but I think it is especially important for a hinge to know -- when to cut a relationship loose. Even if the other person does not want it to end or is trying to suck you back into a wonky dynamic.

Leaf has wonky ethics.

I came across this link recently:


It is meant for their workplace, but I thought it so easily translates into poly individual and poly group ethics that I wanted to copy it over with tweaks and ponder it. In general I think there's good stuff there for HOW to be together. I often see poly people wanting to be together in polyship but not really talking about HOW to do it when things are rocky. There's no need for a map when things are peachy. It usually seems to unravel when it comes time to solve a problem, address issues, address conflict.

Leaf used to be a close friend, not a poly partner. But when viewing Leaf against this standard? It is easier to make the things Leaf WILL do green rather than color the whole damn thing red.

Leaf has slid into poor relating skills and super weak ethics. Not healthy. Not hot. Not sexy. Not fun. And not self-respecting for Leaf to float along in life this way.

  • Address issue(s) right away so they do not continue to build and result in problems in other areas.
  • Issues between two people should be handled directly and privately first and not in group. (aka: sucking others into the drama-fest)
  • Trust in the process that addressing conflict can result in strengthening relationships. (And agree on conflict resolution method.)
  • Be willing to address conflict even though it is difficult.
  • Identify a mutually agreed upon time and place to meet.
  • Find a private setting that is not likely to be interrupted.
  • Offer and receive feedback from a professional/situational perspective to avoid making the conversation personal.
  • Express oneself genuinely.
  • Allow others to finish before speaking.
  • Stay on track with the issue at hand and do not sidetrack into other issues.
  • Focus on behaviors and concrete situations.
  • Avoid terms such as “always” or “never.”
  • Be respectful of others’ ideas and opinions even though we may not agree with them.
  • Be willing to be vulnerable and accept feedback about our behavior.
  • Be willing to examine “what’s me?” and “what’s you?”
  • Recognize the way we impact others even if it does not match our intent.
  • Ask directly about others’ intent rather than making assumptions.
  • Make requests rather than demands.
  • Have ideas about how to make things better or move forward rather than offering criticism and remaining stuck.
  • Be responsible and accountable for the changes you agree to make.
  • Set a time to check in to see how the agreed upon change(s) are or are not working.
  • Agree to re-negotiate a solution.
  • Speak for yourself (“I statements”) and your experience and avoid representing the perspectives of others; avoid stating that “others share my concern” as it creates paranoia and mistrust.
  • Invite a third party like a counselor to consult or facilitate if required.

  • Commitment that all persons will communicate in a way so that everyone can be a part of the conversation and this is seen as a priority. (Avoids triangulation, exclusion, people not having a voice in things that affect them)
  • Let go of the way things used to be and look for solutions to make things better.
  • Take responsibility for oneself to actively care about colleagues regardless of what is interpreted as their own agendas.
  • Desire to share perspectives about other areas of practice without feeling like those in that area of practice will be resentful.
  • Notify people ahead of time if difficult issues will be discussed; time is needed to prepare thoughts. (No "bombs from the sky")
  • Engage in small group discussions that lead to larger group sharing so opportunities exist to know others on a more personal level.
  • Everyone in the room needs an equal voice no matter what role they play.
  • Focus on what we have in common rather than what is different between us
  • Avoid “us versus them” perspective
  • Regulate the flow of conversation so the same people are not the only ones talking and being heard.
  • Allow people to comment once on an issue so a few people are not monopolizing.
  • Allow time for those who take longer to process to have time to speak.
  • Recognize when people hold up their hand for a turn to talk.
  • Everyone has the right to remain silent if needed.
  • If a comment is made in meeting and others disagree, the disagreement needs to be stated directly to the person in the meeting or after; fear that others will talk about you behind your back makes it feel unsafe.
  • Leave the debate in the room when it is over and pick it up next time. (some problems are not solved in one sitting)
  • Express thoughts and feelings without fear of criticism.
  • Speak honestly without fear of either direct or indirect punishment.
  • Speak honestly without fear of being "told on"
  • Need to be acknowledged for our input, especially when we take risks to share honestly.
  • If we address an issue, it does not get to be brought up and re-hashed over and over again.
Leaf is only willing to do things that keep the problem "hidden" so he remains "off the hook."

Prefers to keep it between us 2. Why? Because it enables Leaf to avoid accountability. I've offered my willingness to see a counselor to move it forward. But Leaf does not want to expand to having a third party to facilitate the conversation and make sure all play fair. (Not willing to be held accountable for Leaf's irresponsible behaviors that contributes to the mess.) Cannot make him, so I just check out then. Problem solved.

Prefers everyone be silent. Because that enables Leaf to keep on this way even when behaviors Leaf chooses hurts others and ultimately Leaf. Not willing to be in the line of fire, so I just check out then. Problem solved.

Leaf isn't doing silence out of wanting to keep tempers in check first before engaging. Honorable intentions. He wants silence like "let's not talk about it or solve it ever, let's NOT engage at all on this. Just let me keep doing this behavior without you kicking up a fuss." Dishonorable intentions. Solution? I check out. There. Never has to be solved with (Leaf & me). I solved it for (just me.)

He does this thing where he says he knows he is behaving like pain. Like admission gets him off the hook. To me it is worse than being unaware. Dude! You are saying you are aware you choose to do these behaviors? And you choose to keep on doing it rather than stop chasing that? And we all should be ok with that? Dude needs help. More help than I can provide. So... seek elsewhere. I'm checked out. Shoo!

Ms Logic: Still not interested in investing much here.

Ms Emotion: Yup. Indifferent.


Last edited by GalaGirl; 01-23-2015 at 11:06 PM.
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