From the wife's POV...?

[Dagferi]

Originally Posted by nycindie

Pet peeve of mine: Vanilla has nothing to do with poly, as poly is a relationship structure, NOT a kink.

THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!! I am the poly one in my relationship and my sexual tastes are VANILLA. My husband is mono and is the one into BDSM. Thank god my bf is vanilla like me. He is a relief from the pressure I get from my husband.

[WhatHappened]

Originally Posted by Glitter

Perhaps look at it this way, she understands that we, as humans, have needs that need to be met. We have wants that we want met. Being in a poly relationship is about striking a balance with all parties involved. It means everyone needs to be on board and in agreement of that balance. Perhaps (and I speculate only), she's saying she gets how it can be difficult and it makes her sad to see someone in that kind of pain.

Thank you, Glitter, that helps me understand another way it could be and I do believe that most people in this world mean well.

So you actually think my very presence and existence is causing my husbands GF pain?

Besides being a married woman, I'm also a secondary.

Thank you for your first post, Cleo. I have no idea about you and your husband's GF. In the story I told, that particular GF did feel pain because BF had a wife. I believe hers is a very typical story of someone unaccustomed to poly being fine with it at first, and as her feelings deepened struggling with the idea that someone she loves is going to be with someone else most of the time.

I would say that being married and poly already, those are two things that change the situation completely for you, as compared to for this woman or anyone single and with no prior knowledge of the poly structure.

Wow, lots of assumptions in this one sentence you wrote. Unfortunately, there are far too many couples out there (mostly, it seems, when they are new to poly and fumbling about) who look at it this way, too - ie., that they are "bringing in" someone from the outside to be part of, or a subset of, their relationship dynamic. Essentially, a "Couple Plus" scenario instead of a group of separate relationships that all manage themselves.

I think I should have phrased that differently, given how that that exact phrase often is used just as you said. When I wrote it, I was thinking very specifically more that BF himself invites women into a relationship with him, but that it is also a joint decision on their part to live this lifestyle; thus, in a small way, she is part of this invitation being extended to someone with no experience in this.

And yes, I do think, from what he's told me, from what I'm experiencing, and from what I read right here, that being new to poly, particularly for those who did not decide it's what they wanted, for those who did not seek it out, but who met someone who wanted that relationship with them, who invited them in...yes, I do believe that the probability of it becoming painful is very high.

But think about this: what of the new person's own agency, choice, and decision-making in the matter?

I absolutely agree.

If that person is not getting what they need and desire from the relationship to be fulfilled, and they "go home alone and lonely," why would they stay?

If they stay, it's because the good outweighs the bad. I imagine in this particular instance that this woman was not 'going home alone and lonely' in the early stages of their relationship, and that as her feelings progressed and became deeper for him, she found herself struggling more. I think this is natural for many or most people. I would guess that as it became a struggle, that's exactly why she didn't stay.

I agree with you that if needs aren't being met, if people aren't happy with a situation, they should leave. She did. Plenty of others eventually do. I myself am considering doing so because I believe that as my feelings for him grow, I will be less and less content with the situation and that eventually it's impossible for a married man to meet my needs.

If I painted a picture of a victim, I didn't intend to at all. I don't regard her as a victim, nor myself, nor any of us in this position. We all made our choices, but it doesn't change the fact that when a golden ticket to the promised land is offered, so to speak, it's very hard to say no, when someone appealing wants to give you the world and love and admiration and affection. Both these things are true at the same time: he offered something very hard to resist and I made my choice to accept.

He himself is asking the question: should he have offered, having seen from his own experience that the married with single imbalance often leads to exactly the kind of pain his former GF experienced?

And I wouldn't say he has a mono-ish perspective at all. They've had an open marriage for the majority of their 25 years together.

why would it be any wiser to only seek out experienced poly peeps?

For the reasons I first brought up. And I am posing it as a question, not as a foregone conclusion on my part or his that the answer is negative.

Someone asked why not just go out and get another boyfriend. I think some people just aren't interested in having two boyfriends if they're truly mono. For myself, with a house full of kids, a couple of them special needs, a house falling down around my head with its own needs, two jobs, and deadlines breathing down my neck, I wasn't looking for one boyfriend. I certainly don't have time for two.

This discussion, especially after a night to sleep on some of the things he and I talked about, brings me to another question:

What success stories do people have of married poly with single mono? I've seen only a couple and those seem to involve the single person moving in with the couple eventually. Barring that (because it absolutely will not happen in my situation for several reasons), are there such situations where everyone remains happy?

I apologize for misusing the word vanilla. BF used it early on and I think at that point I misunderstood him.

[newtoday]

Originally Posted by Vinccenzo

The situation being what it is, couldn't the GF find someone primary for herself? Being a married man's secondary doesn't mean the GF has to be mono to him if it doesn't provide what she needs to be satisfied.

With Mono people, it's not about having a Primary of their own with a poly Secondary...they are Mono, remember? The Mono person will typically want only one. Hence the term MONO.

Leaving the relationship isn't usually an easy option as Mono people have feelings of love and commitment, too!

I agree that if the level of satisfaction is below where the Mono partner needs their life to be, they should leave the relationship, but it gets old hearing some poly folk provide an easy solution to the mono folk of "just find another one to supplement."

Really, ya think?

[CielDuMatin]

Originally Posted by newtoday

it gets old hearing some poly folk provide an easy solution to the mono folk of "just find another one to supplement."

A fantastic example of how our different mindsets come up with logical solutions that just don't work for those of the other mindset.

This comes up most often when a mono person is trying to come to terms with the things that a poly person wants, but, as you so wonderfully showed, it most definitely can go both ways.

If you are in a mono/poly relationship, BOTH sides need to take the time to understand the mindset of the other and adapt their language to make for an efficient communication dynamic. So often the poly person complains of "why don't they understand me"... it goes both ways.

[LovingRadiance]

my boyfriend is mono.
and none of us had experience with poly.

We've lived together now for nearly 10 years.

I know other poly's who don't live together and are happy.

I would say it really is IMPOSSIBLE to define what will work and what won't-on a broad scale.

EVEN in "typical" monogamous relationships, there isn't a "typical". There's a typical PUBLIC persona-but behind closed doors-there's so many variables a person would keel over dead trying to reason them out to find the "perfect match for everyone".

We are each unique individuals and therefore, each "perfect coupling" will be different. In point of fact, "perfect" for me and DH is COMPLETELY different than "perfect" for me and bf. Because they are different, so what works perfectly in the couple-is different by the variables in which they differ.

EVEN IF I WERE MARRIED TO BF and DH was my BF-these differences would remain. I would not be "like I am with Maca" if I was married to GG. Because-GG and I have a totally different "perfect" and that would show up in differences in our marriage.

You're questions can't be solidly answered by anyone here regarding the example you gave-because we dont know the people in question. And, we can all give personal examples of what works for us-but they will all be different and very possibly-none of them will pertain to the example you gave-because we are all unique and our needs are all different.

[kkxvlv]

Originally Posted by WhatHappened

I agree with you that if needs aren't being met, if people aren't happy with a situation, they should leave. She did. Plenty of others eventually do. I myself am considering doing so because I believe that as my feelings for him grow, I will be less and less content with the situation and that eventually it's impossible for a married man to meet my needs.

Needs are a very individual thing

...when someone appealing wants to give you the world and love and admiration and affection....

There are some people who may not be looking for more than that

He himself is asking the question: should he have offered, having seen from his own experience that the married with single imbalance often leads to exactly the kind of pain his former GF experienced?

Often maybe but not always. Should he assume everyone in the single category has the exact same needs and close himself to all of them? Or does he have the right to expect people to open themselves to him based on the knowledge of their own needs?

Someone asked why not just go out and get another boyfriend. I think some people just aren't interested in having two boyfriends if they're truly mono. For myself, with a house full of kids, a couple of them special needs, a house falling down around my head with its own needs, two jobs, and deadlines breathing down my neck, I wasn't looking for one boyfriend. I certainly don't have time for two.

This sounds to me like one kind of person who might be looking for less than a full time relationship. You might just as easily not be able to meet the needs of a particular single mono person if your time and energy are extended with your commitments to your children and household already.

What success stories do people have of married poly with single mono? I've seen only a couple and those seem to involve the single person moving in with the couple eventually. Barring that (because it absolutely will not happen in my situation for several reasons), are there such situations where everyone remains happy?

I think situations where everyone remains happy can exist depending on the kind of relationship both the poly and mono person are looking for. Some people (poly or mono) are extremely independent and actually want to be able to go home alone to their own space at night and that can present difficulties for any relationships if two people aren't looking for the same thing. For example my bf's father was divorced many years ago and has now been dating the same woman for 9 or 10 years. They are monogamous, care deeply for eachother but don't live together. It seems to me the woman is always pulling these power games with the man and his children because she is uncomfortable their relationship hasn't progressed into more defined commitments and joint property and responsibilities after all these years. He is happy with the relationship where it is. I imagine that he might be happy in a situation where he was in a stable long term relationship where he wouldn't be expected to move in or be with her all the time. That might be found with a more independent mono woman or maybe it could be found with a woman who has that marriage type relationship with someone else already.

I imagine there must be other situations that would create people who don't want a marriage type relationship. People who are married to their job?

My bf has been in a LDR with me for the last 5 years and I'm married. He's been free to date other people but never has. I can't say I understand why that is working for him because I'd sure like more of him but you could call that success for him? I guess I should have noticed the guy in the first scenario and my bf are related huh?

[SNeacail]

Originally Posted by WhatHappened

I talked to BF more about this tonight. He said his wife felt sad that the GF was hurting. He himself seemed rather puzzled by it, when he first told me of it, like, What got into her? I don't understand.

I struggle with this, because, to be honest, I'd think most women outside of the poly world, as their feelings for the boyfriend get deeper, are going to have an increasingly hard time coping with going home alone while their boyfriend goes to bed with his wife.

From my perspective right now, it looks almost cruel, at the very least thoughtless, to invite this woman into his world, being kind and loving and giving till her emotions are deeply involved, all the while assuming she'll adjust to this worldview contrary to the rest of society and everything she's ever grown up expecting, assuming she'll be quite happy always being the one to go home alone while he always has either her or his wife--and then being surprised when she hurts.

I guess I feel better having asked him directly how his wife felt about her very presence causing this woman pain, and I guess I'm glad she didn't feel smug or possessive (I kind of figured I was off base there), but feeling 'sad' also doesn't sit right with me. It seems patronizing and even hypocritical, to be part of bringing someone into a situation that's almost bound to hurt them, and then pose as the compassionate person who feels for that pain.

Maybe what I should be asking here is the broader question behind this: how wise is it to invite vanilla, mono people, with no experience in open relationships whatsoever, into a poly relationship?

How fair is it for a military man or women to "invite" people into their life, knowing they may be sent off to war and never come back? How fair is it for a divorced person to "invite" someone into their lives knowing they will have to deal with raising another person's children, an ex-spouse and ex-in laws? How fair is it for someone with a disability or illness to "invite" someone into their lives, knowing that person will have all sorts of crap to deal with? How fair is it to date anyone with responsibilities and commitments that pre-date YOU? This sounds a bit like, "poor me, I'm dating a man who actually stands by his commitments instead of dumping everything and everyone to worship me. How dare he!". Would you really want to date someone like that anyway?

Why don't you try talking to the wife and at least get to know her so she becomes a real person, not someone who is in competition with you. She is likely sad, because she knows you will break her husband's heart since you can't accept HIS reality, you want a fantasy life he can't give you. Have you tried talking with her or the three of you together to see if there is some kind of compromise you three could work out to give you a little more of what you need?

[AutumnalTone]

Originally Posted by WhatHappened

I struggle with this, because, to be honest, I'd think most women outside of the poly world, as their feelings for the boyfriend get deeper, are going to have an increasingly hard time coping with going home alone while their boyfriend goes to bed with his wife.

Change that to "some" and you've got a valid point. Otherwise, you're simply positing that most adults are incapable of evaluating circumstances and figuring out what their likely responses will be--and I find that unconvincing.

From my perspective right now, it looks almost cruel, at the very least thoughtless,

Um...no.

[Dagferi]

My situation is reverse.. With my husband being mono. My boyfriend is single and Mono too.

I split my time between both men. I stay with my boyfriend overnight a night or two on weeks he is working the weekend. I spend his weekends off with him.

There are ways of spending time with both people...

[nycindie]

Originally Posted by WhatHappened

We all made our choices, but it doesn't change the fact that when a golden ticket to the promised land is offered, so to speak, it's very hard to say no, when someone appealing wants to give you the world and love and admiration and affection. Both these things are true at the same time: he offered something very hard to resist and I made my choice to accept.

He himself is asking the question: should he have offered, having seen from his own experience that the married with single imbalance often leads to exactly the kind of pain his former GF experienced?

Hmm. It sure sounds like, to you, that "golden ticket" of love, admiration, affection, and commitment can only be had in a relationship in which two people are entwined and focused solely on each other. You don't seem to believe that love is expansive, and can include many people. But a person's satisfaction, fulfillment, and happiness should never be dependent upon their relationships anyway. That is an inside job. And, believe me, that golden ticket can be had in other scenarios. One can find love, admiration, affection, and commitment and not be totally dependent on one person to give that, nor to expect exclusivity in order to have all of that. For me, my poly dream is to have several lovers and remain independent, without having my life totally entwined with anyone else's. My poly dream is not that rare, either. You seem to assume that disappointment is automatic when someone loves a person who also loves another.