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  #11  
Old 08-03-2012, 09:44 PM
monogamishSF monogamishSF is offline
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I totally see that side, and that's what the goal is. But I'm not punishing her by being honest about how I feel. How do you feel I'm punishing her?
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  #12  
Old 08-03-2012, 10:00 PM
RunningMan RunningMan is offline
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Originally Posted by monogamishSF View Post
I totally see that side, and that's what the goal is. But I'm not punishing her by being honest about how I feel. How do you feel I'm punishing her?
I guess what I'm asking is "What will it look like when you are totally over this event?" And, "Why is this one particular person going to be off limits?"

That's what I mean by punishing her. There is no room for a reunification. And like you said, she won't want anyone else.

She made a mistake and now that's it for this one girl. Why?
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  #13  
Old 08-03-2012, 10:11 PM
monogamishSF monogamishSF is offline
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Originally Posted by monogamishSF View Post

1. Would you give someone another chance, if they made a royal mistake during their first pass at a secondary relationship? What might that other chance look like? Do I loosen/negotiate less tight boundaries so my expectations aren't so high and I'm less likely to be let down? Or do I hold tight to the same boundaries and remove them as I feel safe, the way I hoped it would go the first time? Or do I work on trusting her the next time, but with someone new instead?
When here did I say this was it for this one girl? I was asking other people to weigh in with advice/experiences, and I've stated several times that I'm on the fence, and not yet healed. Wondering how other people might react.

I didn't veto her, nor did I ask them to break up. The other girl grew tired of being involved in a couple that was struggling with the design of their relationship. I didn't once say "It's her or me," and I'm doing what I can to hear out my partner when she's in pain even though I am too. It's just really hard to hear her tell me how important this person was to her when I'm still hurt she broke trust.

I feel like you're responding to something else, and haven't quite digested my post, but I don't know you, so hard to say. I have read your posts, and it sounds like trust plays a different role in your relationships. But my motivation for poly isn't to have a bunch of sex or sneak around or be kept in the dark about my partner's other interests. It's to develop trusting bonds between myself and other people I care about that let us also sleep together in a safe, open way. When a person lies to me, my foundation shakes, because it becomes harder to count on them to be open and honest with me. We did not have a DADT policy, quite the opposite.
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  #14  
Old 08-03-2012, 10:19 PM
RunningMan RunningMan is offline
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Originally Posted by monogamishSF View Post

We understand different people have different hangups, but I have to fix me so she can be happy with other people. I just don't know if I can fix me around this specific other person because things went so poorly. She is also heavily prevalent within our social scene, so I'm leaning toward working on how to handle the "next" potential secondary and writing this one off to loss. But like I said, she makes my partner feel amazing. And my partner doesn't want to see anyone but her (and me). So there is no "next" secondary in the forseeable future.
This part kind of leans to you not letting her see her again. I could have misread it, but that's what it sounds like.
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  #15  
Old 08-03-2012, 10:21 PM
monogamishSF monogamishSF is offline
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How would you approach the alternative?
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  #16  
Old 08-03-2012, 10:24 PM
RunningMan RunningMan is offline
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I'm not saying you have to do anything now, but at least leave room for the opportunity for a possible reunification that's all. You were clearly hurt and your feelings count, but if she is thinking that one day this will be OK, when it really won't, in the end she will probably be crushed.
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  #17  
Old 08-03-2012, 10:42 PM
monogamishSF monogamishSF is offline
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Right and that's exactly the issue I'm identifying in this post. And is the reason she's asking for an answer from me, and I'm like.... uh..... *post to poly forum*

Cuz I kind of don't know right now. I'm weighing the options. Yes it is safer to say no, never, in that I can avoid feeling shittier about a relationship based on a foundation of pushing and cheating and boundary-busting (and not just me, she lied to the other girl as well, but it's up to her how she reacts to that). But all the books say not to make limits to avoid your emotions, so in poly, I think the harder but eventually healthier, more productive route is to learn to embrace this new relationship. But emotionally, that feels like a bad move. At least right now.

Having never been here before, how do I determine when/if I'll feel comfortable with them seeing each other given what happened? Today, I'm still all fucked up inside that this person I love and trust and share a bed with did this knowing I wasn't there yet, after agreeing she wouldn't. Furthermore, if this person was so important to her, why did she put that relationship in jeaopardy instead of appreciating what she had with her so far? I'm afraid of falling into a pattern where she feels the only way to progress in poly is to break agreements. Then, the only times we grow are in places of mistrust, and then instead of building trust, we're building this like... void of trust.

YES, I am worried about their connection, not itself (or I wouldn't be telling you guys that I'm struggling with preventing her from finding happiness with this person). It's that it legitimately threatened our primary relationship when this happened. Not just in my jealous imagination, but in real life, because it overshadowed her ability to act in the best interest of all parties, not just herself.
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  #18  
Old 08-03-2012, 11:06 PM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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Quote:
I think the harder but eventually healthier, more productive route is to learn to embrace this new relationship. But emotionally, that feels like a bad move.
If the goal is to move it forward to a headspace where all three can exist in harmony, then this has to happen in stages. Unravel what needs to be unraveled, the knit back up what needs to be knitted. Discard trash.

This initial first stage? I already kinda described it for me if it were happening to me.

See your person. But keep them AWAY from me. When you are with me, keep them away from me -- no texts, calls, etc on MY time. Be PRESENT with me on your dates with ME.

And I would need quiet peace time for 30 days -- not asking me to process faster, not gushing too much at me about the other relationship. Just emotional peace and harmony so I can think in my head without distractions.

If pushed, I'm gonna say "Limit! I'm out!" because I've been painted into a corner and I feel all prickly about the cheater start.

If you want me to see if it could be a soft limit, if it could be negotiated in time... I would need time to sit with that. To see if I would be willing to entertain that. Not that I AM entertaining that. Just if I could get to that headspace.

But before I can answer THAT one, I have to answer "Do I still even want to BE here with you?" Give me the 30 days to evaluate that one. Then we can do the 30 days to think out the next baby step question.

So carry on your rship with her AWAY FROM ME. So I can feel emotionally safe again and not have it in my face. And I will see if I could get to a place where I could move past the initial betrayal and into a headspace where I could entertain it AFTER I see if I am too disgusted by you or not to even stay with you to begin with. STOP rushing me just cuz YOU are drunk!

You have apologized. It's my move now -- to forgive and forget or not forgive and move on? Forgive and not forget and make our lives hell -- that's not appealing.

Don't rush me to the "you making ammends" part. I have to finish my chess move inside my head first before I can talk about it calmly and not all hot head. This is a "time out" here. Let me have it!

Quote:
Having never been here before, how do I determine when/if I'll feel comfortable with them seeing each other given what happened?
Only time can answer that, so give it a month to see initial viability test.

See your person on the side but keep them AWAY from me.

I will be thinking things and see how I am being treated as the ORE while you are all NRE giddy.

I don't have to sign up for more of this muppet show if I don't want to. I want to see if you can start playing like honorable jedi.

I will let you know in 30 days if I am still in or not. And if I am willing to try to embrace change.

Quote:
Today, I'm still all fucked up inside that this person I love and trust and share a bed with did this knowing I wasn't there yet, after agreeing she wouldn't. Furthermore, if this person was so important to her, why did she put that relationship in jeaopardy instead of appreciating what she had with her so far?
Drunk on the brain cascade of hormones? Drunk (with alcohol) people have impaired judgement. I know when I'm all lovestruck "wheeee! In love!" I might have poor judgement. I can't sleep or eat or anything right! It goes beyond crushie then.

Read up on the neuroscience of brain endorphin/hormone cascade when someone first gets the DING! for someone else.

I don't think she's out to get you. She sounds like she's trying to play fair but she's impaired? At least in the posts? Who knows what it is in real life. Only you would know how earnest/honest she is being.

You could break up and get into another polyship elsewhere but this comes back again with other people -- how to cope with my "drunk" polypeeps? It is much easier to cope with when you go there informed and there isn't a cheatery start of course.

I do not envy your position. Sigh. It's a hard call.

Quote:
I'm afraid of falling into a pattern where she feels the only way to progress in poly is to break agreements. Then, the only times we grow are in places of mistrust, and then instead of building trust, we're building this like... void of trust.
It's not the mistake. It is not the conflict. It is how you agree to be together and NAVIGATE THROUGH the rough patch that builds trust. The goal in life is not to be ding free. We certainly don't want to go LOOKING for extra problems. But all people have their problems. Every single one. You want a partner who can take it with you and has your back? Then you have to work at being the best partners you can be to each other in and out of conflict. Not just fair weather strong, but strong through and through.

Of course if you are done here, you are done. There's only so much people can ask of a person who has lost all trust and has NO interest in trying again. Is that where you are at? That too is valid. Some things just go past the point of no return. You have to sit with it, and think and decide.


Quote:
YES, I am worried about their connection, not itself (or I wouldn't be telling you guys that I'm struggling with preventing her from finding happiness with this person). It's that it legitimately threatened our primary relationship when this happened. Not just in my jealous imagination, but in real life, because it overshadowed her ability to act in the best interest of all parties, not just herself.
I don't think it is the connection per se.

It is the GF's ability to understand herself, and understand how to play when she's been (for lack of a better vocab) drinkin' too much.

Part of that will die down in time -- the NRE chemistry crush buzz and the LOVESTRUCK!! buzz.

I've been having all kinds of ORE endorphin buzz lately with DH (intense sex hormone cascade, intimate heart to heart cascade) and I cannot sleep or eat. I know my own self and I know my body is struggling to clear this junk out of my system. It is fun to feel! Wheee! But I'm not driving either! I've been avoiding driving where I can or call up friends to help out.

I am much too buzzy/distracty/drunk!

GG

Last edited by GalaGirl; 08-04-2012 at 12:36 AM.
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  #19  
Old 08-04-2012, 12:07 AM
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LovingRadiance LovingRadiance is offline
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Quote:
1. Would you give someone another chance, if they made a royal mistake during their first pass at a secondary relationship?
Yes.

Quote:
What might that other chance look like?
Depends on the type of royal mistake, but it would include additional boundaries until such time as they'd proven that they weren't LIKELY to repeat the previous mistake. (I say likely because there is no FOR SURE)

Quote:
Do I loosen/negotiate less tight boundaries so my expectations aren't so high and I'm less likely to be let down? Or do I hold tight to the same boundaries and remove them as I feel safe, the way I hoped it would go the first time? Or do I work on trusting her the next time, but with someone new instead?
Actions have consequences. Some good, some bad. I use this concept for myself all of the time. Her actions have had some bad consequences. In my world some of those consequences would be stricter boundaries until the trust was rebuild-and that simply requires time and effort on HER PART to stick to the boundaries and YOUR PART to observe and accept that SHE HAS CHANGED whatever it is that caused the previous fuck up. (I say this as the one who DID the fuck up-so from personal experience in HER shoes)


Quote:
How do you help a partner mourn a relationship that involved agreement violations? Do you?
Limitedly. "I love you and I know you are hurting. I'm sorry you are hurting and I wish I could fix it. I can't hear this from the heart for you on account of the choices that led to this situation so please go spend time with a friend who can."

Quote:
I feel as her partner, I have a responsibility to help her through any kind of tough time. But given the circumstances, I'm having a hard time gathering any sympathy. I have empathy, but... I'm also still hurt and angry (though less every day), so they seem to be cancelling each other out.
You BOTH have responsibilities. You are BOTH hurting.
IF you were both in a car accident and were hospitalized with extreme injuries-NO ONE would expect either of you to be taking care of the other. EVERYONE would expect that people who were NOT INJURED would be taking care of both of you.
Additionally, everyone would expect those people to take care of both of you WHILE RESPECTING THE CONTINUED RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN the two of you.
(therefore, the person helping you both through this painful time right now should NOT BE people who may have cause to want to do/say anything that could cause more dissent and conflict between the two of you.)

FYI-I think GG's advice here is FUCKING PHENOMENAL.
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  #20  
Old 08-04-2012, 12:24 AM
monogamishSF monogamishSF is offline
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I think yours and GG's are awesome, thanks so much.

I'm just tempted to be like GO FOR IT, it's FINE! But when I envision that, it doesn't feel safe. Not YET.

RunningMan's points sound a lot like my partner's remarks on the topic around the time her defenses were up. She's actually been really great since, and has accepted that she needs to focus on us before worrying about someone new/the OSO. There was a lot of "why are you punishing me" because I was constantly freaking out. But we've both found a safe way to talk, partly through here, partly through time, and through therapy, where our hackles are down, so that's why I see a possibility for this "second chance." But I'm even more weary than before!

But thanks for making me feel okay with taking time to get my head around it. I do have one thing on my side: the other person is quite happy to be a secondary, so her behavior itself isn't a threat. I would be in a padded room if on top of this, she was also acting shady. I've thanked her for that. And I've thanked my partner for relating to me, and I've worked really hard to be a better listener. Helps to not be TRIGGERED anymore.

@LovingRadience: what if it was the tight boundaries that made her feel trapped, and this is how it manifested? That's what she says happened. She says following the boundaries was fine until she was in the moment, and when she was alone with her OSO, in practice, she couldn't hang with my boundaries. And that made her feel controlled, and made her "snap" and that's how the mistake happened. Now, I feel totally justified giving her the same boundaries, but anything stricter would be suffocating since I already asked them not to sleep together yet. I'm afraid tightening the limits would land us in the same place. UGH.
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