Some Assembly Required

[Storm77]

@JaneQSmythe - As for the casual sex, I've always been that bloody innocent type which prefers to not have sex unless there is a damn good chance of a relationship. I know most guys would have their jaws drop going WTF!?!?!?! I don't know... It would be a bit much to explain how I felt through the last 2-3 friends/relationships like that. Basically I walked away from each friendship, getting serious when they would not commit or even acknowledge we were close but threw sex on the table like it's totally nothing lets just fuck! which leads me to think hmm really so how many guys are you banging besides me... half the city?

I posted on another topic how I think I have more of a stereotypical "female" or fem personality. I'm more emotional, sensitive, seem to be always giving, always trying to help, always trying to "make things work" putting my own feelings aside to save those of others till I finally explode at some point. I don't give a shit about "acting manly" as many guys do if I'm called a pussy or gay as I have been so many times I just laugh and think yeah "typical male... PIG!" sometimes I really do hate having to be with the same label as every other man.

As for privacy, I do feel safe wearing my boxers and no shirt at night when her parents are asleep from about 9pm till 5:30am... After that I can't excatly be *cough* taking care of my needs as the door they open to enter the living room is only about 5 feet away and in plain sight... *looks over* well from the back and side view, lol. Otherwise we have 5 cats, 2 med/large dogs, a mouse, 2 rats, and 2 bearded dragons... it's mainly the dogs and cats which make our personal time very difficult in the living room. Even to cuddle and watch a movie we go into the bedroom and watch it on the tv there.

about the front yard, we have a solid wood table on the side of the house, driveway but huge tarp like a cover for a camper over it so it's more of a sitting area, we like to eat outside when it's comfortable. I did some prep placement etc and it would work great for some fun.

@SNeacail - We did yet *sighs* again tonight. These same issues and problems have been ongoing for years! My/our first time suggesting another woman move in with us was mainly to help in this area lacking. We knew nothing of poly back then but besides the sex for me it was also to help with income having a roommate paying part of the rent and extra being in some sorta of relationship with her.

I guess the biggest problem is (no offense to women) I must really be like a chick. I always want to cuddle, fondle, etc. I need to have touching as signs of affection showing T does love me, wants me, needs me. I also DO love when she does the wifey things sometimes like making us dinner, sitting outside eating then holding hands while talking.

As of the last month I finally after telling her for years what I like, what makes me feel good I was blunt and while cuddling in bed after a hot fantasy about S and P, I told her but I NEED her to open up, saying "You don't have to tell me your deep dark fantasies I know that would be private but... being totally honest, nothing taboo I mean nothing! What would would turn you on right now..." As she started to think I added "...to me!" with a grin.

That is when our other play started and I felt so much more connected being able to openly be a bit submissive and have her willing to fulfill and meet those needs. It was bliss and still keeps things exciting daily and is part of helping her open up, become more sexually empowered.

Now sure if anyone knows of the movie "Secretary" basically a sub guiding, training someone to become a Dom. Although not quite at the point yet of pissing her off to get a good punishment LOL.

After a loooong day, I think she was very hurt when I dumped everything out. About the lack sex, about how "since I had no choice with S I really don't give a shit what you think about anyone I get! Even if it's someone you hate, you know like Niclole! (a woman we knew and later found out shes a hooker) It's about time I get MY needs met! After all isn't that why were doing this damn thing! Basically that it's like I am a cockold but I'm not getting any of my needs met out of it. We CANNOT be in this situation now while doing this NOT ANYMORE! Not when we are BOTH getting our needs met elsewhere because you bloody well you know what happens!

It's not like I'm bragging but as I've vented my issues about our marriage to various people over the years the responses has been "Why the fuck to you put up with that!?" "She doesn't know what she has and likely never will till she loses it" I've been told several times if I'm that unhappy leave T.. and this was NOT by other women who wanted me for themselves but random people I'd chat with online. Even before the talk of a woman joining us, a few girls said they would "help out" if I needed it... but stupid as I am I just cannot do that, NOT cheat and NOT just casual sex. I've told T several times over the last 10 years and yes I guess it sounded blunt and scary. I told her I will NEVER cheat on you, if it gets so bad I will let you know it's over! We can talk about it, but yeah.

We did talk ALOT about it tonight as I was scared, yeah even crying since I think was the first time ever it felt like my body, love, etc shut down today she tried to hug and do the things we normally do... but nothing, even tho I'm a guy. It's bloody sucks with "this I gotta be in it for the emotional connection" crap.

Repeated for like the 10th 20th time how yes I talk about sex, NO I in NO WAY have a problem with her and S having sex. But you know, do you love me? do you find me attractive? do you want me? do you need me?

I was going to go on but a area which may have been to private so I asked T's permission if I could be open and say it here. ...and we got debating if she actually had sex with S so I'll wrap this up.

My response to equal hers was "If I had a lapse and accepted someone like Laura (girl we both think is slutty and she hates) if we both got naked, I started to have sex "it was only partly in, it was just maybe 2 seconds if even that." before I decided OMG I CAN'T do this!

Was it sex? or in my case did I cheat?

Anyways I think we're good won't be dragging this into an argument but seems T and I have different idea of what sex is. But seems if this situation personally applied to me. It's not sex in her opinion. Yay! I can have sex and it's not cheating as long as I only go partially in and only 2 seconds at a time LOL. Will have to found out how many seconds must it be out before entering it again to have a reset on the timer so it continues to not count and not be considered cheating in my case.

Sorry being silly, *deep breath* hopefully we're good I think I just have to be more on top of things reminding her of what I want. Instead of waiting to feel loved by her as I usually have. She is more like the man, going OMG what!? You never said you wanted... VS myself emotional well if you cared, blah blah whaaaa you'd have. Yup! We're screwed up at times

[Glitter]

Originally Posted by Storm77

Will have to found out how many seconds must it be out before entering it again to have a reset on the timer so it continues to not count and not be considered cheating in my case.

Ooooh, you are a bad bunny

Ahem, we did get our needs met, several times We may have some heated moments, but they certainly make for great make up nookie

[Storm77]

Gonna be bad if we get into personal chat back and forth on here since we are sitting about 3 feet between eachother

Yeah I was going to end it on that good note about the sex but kinda got distracted with the debate we had going on.

So yeah I can't argue maybe it doesn't count when you compare it time wise

*bad bunny waits for a sore tail later*

[SNeacail]

Originally Posted by Storm77

Instead of waiting to feel loved by her as I usually have. She is more like the man, going OMG what!? You never said you wanted... VS myself emotional well if you cared, blah blah whaaaa you'd have. Yup! We're screwed up at times

My husband and I spent a lot of years doing this . He needed "touch", and I needed "acts of service". Of course, what happened was that, I couldn't stand to touch him (or be touched) because he wouldn't help me around the house and vice versa. It wasn't until I discovered "The 5 Love Languages" that we finally had that AH HA moment. Neither of us understood how the lack of these things was part of what was tearing us apart. We spent nearly 20 years building resentments and walls between each other , that we are just now starting to break down.

Seriously, COMMUNICATION is absolute key to a relationship, especially if you're living together. We may think we are expressing our needs, wishes, desires, etc., when in fact it's being interpreted completely different. Get books, websites, etc on how to communicate, start with a "tag search" on this forum there's lots of great information and little tricks that are very helpful.

[Storm77]

Well not going on and on to cause problems... we're doing pretty good today but as I am typing this it's turning into giving our history and I guess my thinking out loud or in txt.

Yeah T and I have been that bad, I believe that was our worst time at the old apartment. The resentment grew, I daily said how it feels like we're just roommates, I thought of her as a lazy child, like I was a parent that had to take care of my kid. I was in the same boat, I felt sick, disgusted when she would touch me, even when I was horny it was at the point thinking "with you!?" Yeah it may be personal but others may have had it happen when it's so bad the body just doesn't respond.

She's always been ok if I looked at porn, cybered, etc since I worked with adult websites even before we met. I think that was the bottom of the pit if that was not there I would have not had anything stopping my fall. It would have been over years ago when we hit those worst times.

Thinking of S and P as I type this...

I would call her my kid in a joking way just to deal with it, a way to just cope with it all. Till one day I was babying her on the street asking if shes ok and she snapped saying QUIT TREATING ME LIKE A FUCKING CHILD! My response was QUIT ACTING LIKE ONE! I NOT A PEDO, I MARRIED A WOMAN WHERE THE FUCK DID SHE GO!? as I gentle shook her shoulders looking into her eyes. Shes has such a huge wall up I guess it cracked a little that day.

The biggest problem over the years. I'm passive, I'll do my part but wait to see if she loves me (from my pov) if she will follow true on her promises to talk, to work on our relationship. When she flakes out I feel hurt and stop working on it too, the resentment builds. Till it builds weeks later when I insult her or my anger and resentment shows. Then she is surprised asking where the hell did this come from, what did I do!? We have been doing so good... Not from my perspective.

That has been the history of our relationship since early on (over 10 years), I wait for her to show she loves me when she doesn't show it (in a way I can understand) I don't want to hurt her, I bottle up the pain and feelings of neglect as long as I possibly can till it needs to come out somewhere. I explode, I yell telling her how I feel, shes shocked, cries.. We both cry, both promise to do what is needed to keep the relationship going. I feel in bliss for 1-2 days, 3-4 coming down slowly slide to normal. 4th plus shes mostly back to our normal as it were. But yes the problem is I never remind her, I figured she made the promises if she loves me and cares about the relationship isn't it important enough to remember and continue to work on it.

I was worried yesterday with my feelings. With the thought of how yeah the sex was balanced or lack there of when I'm her husband, I'm the primary. Of course this shot up the feelings of does she really love me... as much... feelings spinning out of control. Further increasing my panic to find my 2nd relationship, as I wrote thinking should I just look for whoever I can get, for whatever I can get to keep this relationship together.

It's been maybe 5 years since I "shut down" like I did... again. She had no clue as we lay in bed asking what's wrong. In my mind I was thinking to myself FUaaaaaaCK is it over!? If I find someone I like to meet my needs, if T and I ignore our issues as usual. We will both have an "out" now. Will she take hers, will I take mine or just continue in pain, or will the my 2nd help to null our primary problems.

I can't remember what I said next I was too out of it, something about if we break up. More of a possibility since we opened this damn door.

Well... Aug 13th - Day 1...

[Storm77]

@JaneQSmythe

Many posters here have lamented that it DOES seem easier for poly women than poly men to find potential partners.

It's pretty much the same anywhere even in general dating sites. Sometimes the men outnumber women 10to1, 3to1 would be the lowest possible I'd think. Plus add on general dating sites many people are turned-off or even disgusted by Polyamory as I said before it's like a 3 strikes your out everytime. I'm a common Male among hundreds, I'm married, I'm Poly and looking for another woman. The only people who seem to be ok with that all is swingers and unhappy married women looking to cheat. Now that T is with S and I'd be without a "female" for the swingers lessens that chance... I think. Never really looked into what swingers want but again with it being just sex that's a turn-off unless he is bi too, some fetishes were involved to add that spark. I did *in a shuffling my feet sorta way* bring up the idea the idea to T about would she... be willing to try again with a new couple if we could find one. (Still keep S but possibly...) She said she'd have to really like the guy she wouldn't just fuck around... Thought about it and then LOL'ed. She asked what! Said "Well with my luck, what if AGAIN... you develop feelings for the man, the wife doesn't work out with me and you got TWO GUYS and I'm still zip, nada, zero, LOL" Now THAT would be a FML moment!

As for casual sex, I really don't know. Yes I LOVE sex like any guy but I'm way more about the emotional side of things unless the partner and I could cook up some sort of fantasy or be into fetishes that turn me on just having a woman laying there silent to screw it'd be slim chance of having an orgasm without some kind of interaction, emotions, feelings, etc.

On top of that it's always been difficult to not get attached, not develop love for someone, I always have that feeling and need I'm attracted to you, thus I love you, thus I want some type of relationship. I know it's different being Poly but as T says I'm still thinking like a Mono too often. *shrugs* That is just one part of me I don't know how to change right now. Even since a teenager since I was first interested in girls, yes some were hot but 2nd thought was and still IS always "what is she like?" going out with, living with, what is her personality, etc not like most guys thinking who cares I so want to BANG HER right NOW!

I have a damn good relationship with T, I don't mind she's with another man since we share a very strong connection as it is. With a new woman I'm not sure if I would still feel hurt knowing shes with a bunch of other guys and without the "connection" I can just get off faster myself with some good porn or just my imagination *thinking here* I guess I see it as something like paying a hooker, just do it, no feelings, go home. I could use the $200 for WAY better things

There was one woman's profile I saw locally OKC who I kept telling T would be FUCKING PERFECT. WOW! married, older, beautiful, a dom, had thoughts she mmm could break my being bi-curious if I don't have a choice following her orders hehe being bi-curious gotta admit I have thought about M/F couples before. With being older, a dom AND fetishes that would have been some damn good connections and sparks... fuck that it would be a raging forest fire! (But never got a response back from her and likely blew it since this was before T gave me some advice on how to make my profiles, write messages, etc.) it was a 1st message TMI B-O-M-B. I really liked her so thought OMG I gotta tell her EVERYTHING!!! More chance she'll see something in there she likes about me. Sent it. When I asked T later what she thought of it, she was stunned. (In a jaw dropping to the floor way straight outa the movie The Mask) Pretty much said WTF you sent here e-v-e-r-y-t-h-i-n-g, showed all your cards, whats left to talk about! Nothing. T-M-I!

Now I try to go by what she says, 3 paragraphs 4 max if you need. Intro, something relating about her and wrap it up with looking forward to contact, how to, etc. Instead of a first message being 5-7 pages long

@SNeacail

My husband and I spent a lot of years doing this . He needed "touch", and I needed "acts of service". Of course, what happened was that, I couldn't stand to touch him (or be touched) because he wouldn't help me around the house and vice versa. It wasn't until I discovered "The 5 Love Languages" that we finally had that AH HA moment. Neither of us understood how the lack of these things was part of what was tearing us apart.

I'm trying to think back, I think I've told T at least a few times over the years what I like, what I need about the touching. Previously her issue was touching, led to fondling which led to sex and I guess with her feelings of me that was a big no way!

Add there was and still is times she acts like shes turned on, says we'll do something that night. It never happens, I know now because I never remind her and I have to remember that. I'd wait and wait, it gets later and I think she's just going to let me down again, it's what always happens. She gets tired ready for bed, sometimes I'd not say a word and just feel hurt other times I'd say something and she would just say she's "sorry I promise tomorrow" same thing happens. It got to the point I would joke or mock her when she made those promises "Oooh I'm so gonna jump you tonight!" sometimes it was really hard not to laugh at her, sometimes I'd just nod go about my day, never shower or anything *shrugs* because I knew what to expect from her, it wouldn't happen. I'd take care of myself on the computer, etc crawl into bed later.

It was pretty much to the point we never talked to eachother except for good morning, love you, love you too. Hours later, what do you want for dinner? whose making dinner, are there any clean dishes? Lastly she says ok I'm going to bed, ok love you, love you too. This while like now we spend almost all our time at home sitting 5 feet away from eachother... Yet I felt so alone.

It's no where that bad now, things are WAY BETTER in this house since we moved from our last place. But there still are the moments. One of my last rants here was after 4 days of those "promises" but yes my fault too since I'm used to how we work, she promises of something and I take the path of well I'll believe it when it happens and not remind her thinking if she cares she'll remember about me.

I can see and know I have to change my biggest fault. Killing a good relationship between us by being passive then hurt and yeah that is part of the communication.

Anyways long post as usual. Wanted to add that 5languages of love results I got.

10 Quality Time (listed #1)
10 Physical Touch
7 Acts of Service
3 Words of Affirmation
0 Receiving Gifts

For anyone wondering about this test
5 Love Languages

[SNeacail]

Originally Posted by Storm77

Add there was and still is times she acts like shes turned on, says we'll do something that night. It never happens, I know now because I never remind her and I have to remember that. I'd wait and wait, it gets later and I think she's just going to let me down again, it's what always happens. She gets tired ready for bed, sometimes I'd not say a word and just feel hurt other times I'd say something and she would just say she's "sorry I promise tomorrow" same thing happens. It got to the point I would joke or mock her when she made those promises "Oooh I'm so gonna jump you tonight!" sometimes it was really hard not to laugh at her, sometimes I'd just nod go about my day, never shower or anything *shrugs* because I knew what to expect from her, it wouldn't happen. I'd take care of myself on the computer, etc crawl into bed later.

It was pretty much to the point we never talked to eachother except for good morning, love you, love you too. Hours later, what do you want for dinner? whose making dinner, are there any clean dishes? Lastly she says ok I'm going to bed, ok love you, love you too. This while like now we spend almost all our time at home sitting 5 feet away from each other... Yet I felt so alone.

Please don't take this wrong, but ROFLMAO!

It is absolutely a lonely way to live! This was almost exactly my life for a very long time. What I learned and am still trying to teach my husband. SPEAK UP - IN THE OUT LOUD VOICE! I am not a mind reader. Both of us would sit around waiting for the other to "make a move" and then both get irritated and feel slighted when it didn't happen.

I still have to remind my husband that just because I seem tired or involved with something, don't assume I won't drop it in an instant if he voices that he'd like sex or cuddle time, etc. Also don't assume that I can read all the non-verbal hints, because after 20 years, we've established that I CAN'T. There may be times, when I'm not feeling up to sex, but would be happy with cuddling. In the same light, it also works in reverse. Life is so much better when we actually VOICE (in the out loud voice) our needs, wants and desires. Our partner may actually surprise us and be up to grant it. We still have times where we slip back into old habits, but we're learning and working on it.

Love Language:
I'm - Acts of Service & Quality Time - about equally
Husband - #1 Touch & #2 Words of Affirmation

Knowing each others language has made a great difference. I can make the effort to touch him when I walk through the room or reach out a hand or foot while trying to sleep. The more we have touched, the more I crave and need it also, to the point where it's vying for position with the other two languages. In turn, he has made a bigger effort to give me help when I ask for it.

You mentioned earlier that you would whine about stuff. I found that this is NOT communicating and the recipient tends to tune you out at this point. State the problem, then ask how are WE going to fix it. Now a discussion can start and the recipient isn't feeling attacked. Know your audience, I have a tendency to think out loud and need to list all the difference scenarios, which just looses my husband. He will either just assume I have picked either the first one or the last one and there is nothing for him to do or contribute. I've had to learn to just state the problem and wait for him to answer, although I do have to remind and prod him to fill me in on his decision or line of thinking.

It seems like writing down some of your thought is helpful to you, keep doing it. Many of us find that helpful, as you can see from the blog section.

[Glitter]

Originally Posted by Storm77

I'm trying to think back, I think I've told T at least a few times over the years what I like, what I need about the touching. Previously her issue was touching, led to fondling which led to sex and I guess with her feelings of me that was a big no way!

Just want to pop in here and say my problems/issues had nothing to do with my feelings for you! They were my own insecurities and allowing myself to be controlled by past happenings (newly discovered memories of being molested as a child). I allowed my own fears and hurts guide my value as a woman, as a person. Nothing you could have said or done would have changed that. It was and is all on me. If I continue to allow such things to be my guide as to how I should behave and react, then I will get no where fast.

Add there was and still is times she acts like shes turned on, says we'll do something that night. It never happens, I know now because I never remind her and I have to remember that. I'd wait and wait, it gets later and I think she's just going to let me down again, it's what always happens. She gets tired ready for bed, sometimes I'd not say a word and just feel hurt other times I'd say something and she would just say she's "sorry I promise tomorrow" same thing happens. It got to the point I would joke or mock her when she made those promises "Oooh I'm so gonna jump you tonight!" sometimes it was really hard not to laugh at her, sometimes I'd just nod go about my day, never shower or anything *shrugs* because I knew what to expect from her, it wouldn't happen. I'd take care of myself on the computer, etc crawl into bed later.

(snipped)

It's no where that bad now, things are WAY BETTER in this house since we moved from our last place. But there still are the moments. One of my last rants here was after 4 days of those "promises" but yes my fault too since I'm used to how we work, she promises of something and I take the path of well I'll believe it when it happens and not remind her thinking if she cares she'll remember about me.

I can see and know I have to change my biggest fault. Killing a good relationship between us by being passive then hurt and yeah that is part of the communication.

This is also something I need to work on. I have shitty short term memory, mainly due to medication I've been on. I have to work on the follow-through on my end. If I promise something, I have to do it. Otherwise don't promise it

I also need to speak up and voice my needs and wants. It's been getting easier, for sure But it's a life time of repressing what I want and need that I am fighting (as you know, for you it is a life time of being the good guy and not bluntly saying what you want or need). But we're getting a hell of a lot better at it (thinks of last night)

These are my Love Languages:

Love Language Scores:
7 Words of Affirmation
8 Quality Time
7 Receiving Gifts
4 Acts of Service
4 Physical Touch
Interpreting and Using Your Profile Score:
The highest score indicates your primary love language (the highest score is 12). It's not uncommon to have two high scores, although one language does have a slight edge for most people. That just means two languages are important to you. The lower scores indicate those languages you seldom use to communicate love and which probably don't affect you very much on an emotional level.

I'd like to point out that the gifts I desire are small things, like a little post it note with I Love You Honey on it. I don't care for material things, $$$, etc...I like it when my love spends time on something (like a doodle, a mixed tape, etc) for me

[Glitter]

Originally Posted by SNeacail

Also don't assume that I can read all the non-verbal hints, because after 20 years, we've established that I CAN'T.

Haha, this is me! I am oblivious! I never ever caught on to these things, so unless it is voiced, I am not going to "get" it, haha!

[Glitter]

Been a long few days. Some good some not so good. Today I kind of fell apart, realizing I don't have a whole lot of support. My mum seems to think I am going to run off with my boyfriend (was S, now calling him Music).

Turns out my dad (step dad)'s parents were poly and in a quad relationship for years. His mum left his dad for her lover. They married and were together for 25+ years until he passed away last year. She thinks I will run away with Music and leave Storm all alone. She doesn't see the good in this relationship, only the potential bad. I do understand her fears, but I wish she (and others) would understand that I am not stupid, nor would I ever just up and leave my marriage!

Now, I don't usually value my family's opinion that much when it comes to my love life, but I felt a huge let down. If Music and I stay together for the long haul (which is what we are planning), he will be a part of my family unit. Anyone wanting to stay in my life will need to accept that and him. I'm not asking them to jump on board and love him, but respect and acceptance is needed.

I am glad that we are taking it slow. Music has come out to some of his friends, and introduced me as his girlfriend. I am finding that P (whom I will call Petal), seems jealous about me, but in an indirect way. She is quick to point out that she is the primary and that she had Music first. I let her know I am fine being the secondary, because we're just dating at this point and there is no need for rumble-strutting (anyone with guinea pigs may understand this, it's like stomping around, puffing up and being the bigger pig, but it's usually only a dominance thing, not truly leading to fighting).

Anyways, I got to chat with Music tonight, and I feel better. He said that I just need to love myself, Storm and whomever I want to love. And that he will be there when I need to talk, which is lovely.

Next thing is for me to meet up with my bestie and talk to her. She knows nothing about this, except that we've been talking about it for years. I really need a day out, ha!

On a good note, I am planning my next date with Music. Planning on going to the movies (I have free passes) and maybe some start watching by the lake. Nothing fancy, just love and fun