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  #41  
Old 09-30-2012, 12:32 AM
Vicki82 Vicki82 is offline
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I was spending some time thinking about jealousy today. I've kind of reached a place in my mind where I think I have more understanding about what I feel and why.

The specific issue on my mind was MFM. Both I and his other girlfriend really wanted to do it, me with my H, and her with her fiance. Her fiance lives out of town and came to visit this week, and I am guessing they probably had one. I haven't asked, though, although I probably should since it's been on my mind so much.

I'm a little crushed by the idea that he did it with her first. He had never had one either and I really wanted us to do it together. I keep repeating to myself that what he has with her doesn't take anything away from me. What he and I have is still special no matter what he does with her. Sex with my husband does not make me want sex with L any less.

So I did some more thinking on why I am still feeling jealous, and coming to the realization it's because I'm not getting my needs met. When I am not seeing L and she is, it hurts and I get frustrated and unhappy. And it's not that I don't want him to see her, because I want him to have his sexual needs met and it's not like he and I are seeing each other often enough for that. But it really upsets me that she can see him and I can't. Distance sucks ass. He can stop by her place and visit for an hour or two and he just can't do that with me. So I haven't seen him in four weeks and she sees him at least once a week. It's just not fair And yes, I'm whining like a little kid because I know it is what it is and it's not like he doesn't want to see me. But I miss him like crazy and it really hurts that I can't see him.

I have about 9 weeks to look forward to where he's still very busy and has little time for daily communication and not much chance of seeing him. He tells me that he needs me, and that he is going to try to swing a weekend before then but it may not be possible. It breaks my heart to think of going so long without being with him. I miss him so much.

Why does love have to be so hard? He told me he believes that we were meant to meet and be together. I wish that meant we didn't have to be apart so much.

Comments are always welcome. It helps to have other perspectives when I'm thinking about stuff, especially since being in multiple love relationships is still so novel to me.
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Me: 31 year old poly bisexual Dominant female, married to Mark (married 9 years). Dating John, 4 months.


Last edited by Vicki82; 09-30-2012 at 01:15 AM.
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  #42  
Old 09-30-2012, 02:57 PM
Vicki82 Vicki82 is offline
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Today I need some perspective, please. My husband thinks I am overreacting and I am pretty sure I am, but I'm still feeling very messed up.

It probably needs more background info. L has a blog where he writes about the kinky parts of his life, and his submissive reads it. He added me to read it too, several months ago. His submissive doesn't know that he is seeing me. I'm not wild about that, but he says it would just be too much drama.

So last night, he asked me if I had read his blog lately, and I said no. I thought he had let it go dormant since he hadn't written since July. It took me a while to remember my password but when I went there were several new entries. The first couple of ones were his usual sort of updates, and then I hit a couple that hurt like hell.

The next one posted was entitled "exclusivity" and it was basically saying that he found what he was looking for with her and that he was not playing with anyone else in the kink community. I obviously reacted very strongly to that one which is where he says he was careful wording that one to say kink community, and that I'm outside that. It HURT so much, though. I know that because of his relationship with his wife, that at least for now and maybe never, that I can't have the type of completely open poly relationship that you all have. But to be pretty much publicly disavowed? I was physically shaking and sweating and my heart was racing when I read that entry. It took hours for my body to calm down. It frustrates me that he can publicly acknowledge his sub on Fetlife but he can't acknowledge me ever. Or rather, that there is really no point since I don't have much of a profile and why cause so much drama to change nothing? Logically, I can see that. But hearts aren't always logical.

And of course, there's the fallout from reading that. I know he loves her, and he is certainly lying to her by omission. He says he is just "controlling the flow of information" to her, but I would be very upset if he was doing that to me. I asked, and he said he is not, but I feel like our trust is damaged. I don't care what he tells her, frankly; that's part of his relationship with her and it's none of my business. But I worry that if he lies to her to make his life easier, that he'd lie to me. I know he loves me but he says he loves her too, so what's the difference? I always felt so trusting and comfortable with him, and I honestly don't believe he has lied to me. But I feel at least a bit emotionally withdrawn right now.

Those are really the key things that are bothering me. The other stuff is minor and it's on me to deal with, not him. One entry was about his experiences with anal with her and how much he loves anal, and that hurt because we've been trying to work up to it together. So that post made me jealous. And the last one was about his reflections on it being six months since he collared her as his sub, and it's been six months since we got together so that one hit a sour note with me as well. By then I was pretty much overwhelmed with conflicting emotions so I didn't really read much.

He stayed up late with me last night trying to help me calm down and to explain why he wrote what he did. I know that the blog is read by her and so by the necessity of his choices, he has to censor what he writes. But I can't imagine he didn't think that one post wasn't going to cause me a great deal of pain. I know he has no one else that he can sound off to about his "other life" and most of the time I'm happy to be there for him. I'm even okay hearing about his sub a lot of the time because I am glad he is happy. But basically seeing him completely deny our relationship? Fuck.

I didn't sleep well last night and I feel like a mess today. I sent him an email in the middle of the night basically saying these things, but I reread our chat and I pretty much raised the same issues so I am sure he is going to feel frustrated. I don't blame him. I'm sure he was just being obtuse and not deliberately trying to hurt me, but I feel awful. Any words of wisdom?
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  #43  
Old 10-02-2012, 05:21 PM
Vicki82 Vicki82 is offline
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Last night L and I talked on the phone and sorted a few things out but I guess I still don't really feel that the air is cleared, so to speak. I still feel like I am not sure about some of the things we were talking about and despite feeling better about getting to actually talk to him and have some vocal context, I am wondering what words he'd have used to respond in an email. My bad I guess.

And I don't even know how the conversation ended up spiralling off to where he said that if I feel the need to pull back emotionally he will support me in just being friends because he doesn't want to lose my friendship. He said that multiple times and I'm sure he was trying to be kind but instead it just hurt. I sent him that email in the first place because I didn't want to lose our connection and dial back to just friends; I wanted to sort through it. So I don't even know how we got to that place. I told him that's not what I want, and he told me that's not what he wants either, but it was hard to listen to anyway.

I'm still feeling so confused and unhappy today. My thoughts are kind of all piling on top of each other. He said he was confused by my intention in my email where I said that I was envious of all you here on the poly forum having such open relationships and he took the word poly to mean something very serious, like the kind of people who live together. I told him that's not what I meant at all. I'm not looking for that kind of relationship, certainly. I just meant that I came here because I'm in love with two men and sometimes I need help sorting through my thoughts because I don't know how to do this. I'm sure there are lots of times I do or say the wrong thing unintentionally to H or L just because I don't know any better.

I do have to talk to H at some point, though. I know he's just trying to be helpful but he is unintentionally fuelling my insecurities in a big way. He knows it's been a while since I saw L, and he asked me if I thought L was just phasing me out. I said no, but it put that idea in the back of my mind again. He's said a couple of other things too, and certainly last night he told me that if I am expecting emotional energy from L when he's this busy that I am going to push him away. He's probably even right, because I wouldn't have any in L's situation. But I just feel so alone right now and a little overwhelmed with my emotions. I know H is not trying to hurt me and he doesn't want me to break up with L because he knows I value that relationship so much. He just doesn't know any better either I think.

I really feel like I have nowhere but here to pour out my insecurities. I can't tell L, because that's being needy when he has nothing to give me. I can't talk to H, because he is okay with listening to everything except my emotional issues with L. So who do I tell when I am worried that in nine weeks, L will have moved on emotionally? After all, he has his sub, who he can still see through this busy time. They have a relationship, so what does he need me for especially when his recent memories of me are going to be coloured by issues I've been having with the distance? I don't know how to handle things. He's a very logical guy who is good at compartmentalizing, so I'm sure it's frustrating him that I am having trouble dealing with an issue that he thought was shelved.

I just don't know how I'll maintain my connection with him if I try to back off and be patient the way he needs me to be right now. I don't really know even what he wants. Does that mean I don't text him or email him because that is needy? Because today I am, in a big way, so I was thinking it's maybe better not to.

And I guess at the heart of it all, I feel uncertain about my security with him again. What does it mean to say that you love people but you're only in love with one? I really don't understand his distinction but I know it's important to him. Sometimes I don't ask things because I don't want to risk knowing the answer. Do I ever want to live with him? No. I'm not interested in anything that society would consider more serious that what we have now. But are my feelings for him just the same kind of love that I feel for H, except shallower because of time/experience? Yes. So there isn't really a distinction there for me. H clearly recognized from the way I've been behaving lately that I am in love with L.

I guess we'll have to see how things go. I know I am seriously overthinking things and I'm not even close to being rational yet, which is why this post is probably on the disjointed side. I have no idea where I'm going right now.

Last night, H just held me. I really needed it.
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  #44  
Old 10-02-2012, 07:33 PM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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I am sorry you continue to hurt. I came to read your thread to see what else might be going on for you.

It is good you try to sort out your jealous and realize it stems from needs not being met.

L does not meet your needs right now. WILL HE START MEETING THEM OR NOT?

Quote:
Last night, H just held me. I really needed it.
I am glad. At least H does the correct ACTIONS to you to show loving behavior from him to you!

Even if his words come out dumb and fuel your anxiety because he's a poly newbie? Or he's not ready to deal with learning to hear words from you about your inner emotional life with other loves? His LOVING ACTIONS TOWARD YOU speak louder than his words here. Could reflect on that.

Again -- ignore L's words. List his ACTIONS. Bottom line -- does he demonstrate loving talk AND loving behavior toward you? Or just all talk and no loving actions? Does he meet your needs or not?

Use objective rulers and tools if YOU cannot see clear right now because of emotional flooding. Take him to paper. Take your time. But do it.

Check jealousy page

http://www.practicalpolyamory.com/im...ed_10-6-10.pdf

Do you do all the things of page 5?

AND

Does L do all the things of page 6?

It takes two to hold up the relationship, not all on you. If he is not doing all of 6? That's telling you again -- by his actions, exactly how much he is invested in keeping your relationship with him alive and healthy.

Does he do any of these things on this other PDF? Then uncomfortable thought or not, you have to accept he DOES do these things. And these thing are called abuse.

http://speakoutloud.net/wp-content/u...urphy-2010.pdf

Talk is just talk. How's he walking his walk? Does he demonstrate loving behavior toward you or not in helping you when you are down?

Quote:
Sometimes I don't ask things because I don't want to risk knowing the answer.
Well, hon, if you can accept you cannot see clear but want your suffering to end? You have to do something different than you normally do. Because do what you always have done? Get what you always have gotten.

Your secondary relationship should not make you afraid to print out pages and use a highlighter. It's only paper. What do you have to fear from paper?

Here is an idea:

Tell H - straight up. "I know you don't like to hear about my inner life with L and all the emotions. I am trying to decide if this is worth it any more or not.

Will you please support me even though it makes you feel yucky? I will not talk about emotions. Here is what I want/need from you. Listen to me all the way across and please do not shut down or shut me out. You mission if you choose to accept it -- Be Mr Watch Me Print Pages and Mr Hand Holder.
  • Will you please watch me print these pages? You don't even have to look at them. I just to actually do them and not chicken out because I am afraid of what I might find.
  • Will you just let me hold your hand while I highlight the things I need to highlight? You still do not have to look at the pages.
  • And will you tell me YOU love me? And tell me you will support my decision -- whatever it is I decide?

That is what I want you to do for me. Would you be willing to do that much? Do you accept the mission? "

Then print those two links and get the yellow highlighter. Go! From the gut! No second thoughts or second guessing yourself. See what your GUT tells you even if your brain is struggling. If not sure, just put a questions mark beside it and go, go, go til the end of the page.

GL!
Galagirl

Last edited by GalaGirl; 10-02-2012 at 08:14 PM.
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  #45  
Old 10-02-2012, 11:34 PM
Vicki82 Vicki82 is offline
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He really doesn't treat me badly. I feel like I must be articulating myself poorly if that's the impression everyone is getting. When he has time for me, I feel so loved and valued and cared for, because he does show it to me. It's just that right now, he can't.

Here are the things I do not like about my relationship with L:
  • I don't like that his other girlfriend doesn't know about me; in her situation, I would be pretty crushed if I thought I was the only one and wasn't, especially since I'm not a casual fling to him.
  • I am uncomfortable that he is willing to "control" this kind of information, especially since he and I are fluid bonded and that requires a lot of trust from me.
  • I don't like that she gets the validation of being something "official" to him while I cannot have the same thing. It makes me feel like my needs are less important than hers.
  • I do not like that I rarely get to talk to him on the phone or Skype, or even use IM chat.
  • I do not like that I see him so rarely, even if I understand that LD sucks.
  • I do not like that for the next nine weeks, I will not get to see him or talk to him as much as I need to be happy. I don't like that he is under so much stress that I cannot talk to him about my emotional needs.
  • I do not like that the other women in his life are getting their needs met while I get the leftovers. It makes me feel unimportant.

Of those things, some are still in his control despite his overwhelming workload right now. I feel uncomfortable asking for those things because I don't want to add to his stress level, but perhaps in the context that they will help me get through nine weeks of less contact, they will be worth it. But really, there has to be something in here about appropriate timing. It's good to articulate needs, but there has to be a time and a place. When I am sick and under pressure from all sides, I would have very little emotional energy to give. I can understand completely that he has little to no energy for me right now, even if it sucks.

I am not really prepared to have the conversation about his sub. I still feel like it's not really any of my business how he conducts his other relationship. I worry that he will lie to me, but honestly, if you don't have trust in someone you don't believe anything they say anyway. So I can choose to believe him when he says he won't lie to me, or I can choose not to. I have decided to believe him.

In a similar vein, I am not sure I am prepared to have a real conversation about how I want to be acknowledged in some way. That ties into having a discussion about his sub since the only place I think he could actually acknowledge me is FetLife and therefore it predisposes that he would have to tell her about us. I would like to have some kind of "public" status there, but I believe that my current desire for recognition is stemming from the fact that my needs are going unmet and so when we get back on normal ground again it won't be as important to me. I am prepared to revisit this point if in fact my desire does not lessen.

I am going to talk to him about the phone/Skype thing and ask for maybe a once a week phone call if only when he's driving home. He should be able to give me that. I understand that he can only Skype when his wife is not home or IM if she's not around, so that isn't something that can change.

The not seeing him frequently isn't something that can really change either. Realistically, I would like to see him a minimum of once a month if I can. I'll have to wait and see what happens in nine weeks to see what kind of frequency he can give me.

So really, of that list, there is only one thing that I can ask for right now. The rest, I am just going to have to suck up for now and try to give him the patience he needs over the next few weeks.

I'm sure this blog sounds negative since by definition, I need the outlet more when I am unhappy than when I am happy. I will have to try harder to give a balanced perspective.

What I like about my relationship with L:
  • I like that he shows me he cares about me in various ways. He is there for me when I need someone to talk to, he makes it a point to ask how I am feeling, and he just generally gives me the overall feeling of being cared for.
  • I like that we are friends as well as lovers. His friendship is important to me.
  • The chemistry between us is very intense, at least on my end. I feel like he belongs in my life and having him there is important to me.
  • I have never felt so happy and fulfilled since we started seeing each other. Having two wonderful men in my life makes me feel so lucky, valued, and special.
  • The sex between us is absolutely incredible. I've never had a partner that I clicked so well with.
  • I felt like my heart recognized something about him before we even met, during the days we were Skyping leading up to our F2F meeting. I already felt differently about him than I did about any of my casual sex partners and I wanted more from him.
  • I do trust him at the core, despite my current worries. I feel comfortable with him.
  • I like that I have a partner that I trust enough to experiment with new sexual activities safely. I feel like I can explore my desires with him.
  • I feel wanted and desired when we are together. He makes me feel attractive and sexy and that I am a good lover.
  • I like that he is intelligent and I enjoy having conversations with him.
  • I like that we can have silly and fun conversations and just enjoy each other's company.
  • I like that we can have sexy conversations that drive us both crazy.

I really value him as my lover and I want him in my life. I know I am going to struggle over the next nine weeks and that the support he can give me to get through it is going to be limited. But sometimes, there really isn't a good choice. I don't want to give up all the good things about our relationship just because this time is going to suck.

I really miss him. I know I'd feel so much better if I could just see him, but it is what it is. I just have to keep reminding myself that this will all be worth it when it's over. I just need to vent sometimes and I don't really have anywhere to do that. I respect H's need to stay away from the emotional side of my relationship with L. He will always be first in my life and I need to make sure his needs are taken care of. I'm lucky that he loves me enough to allow me something I need, even though I know it is difficult for him to understand and accept.

So, I guess that leaves me still feeling crappy, but it is what it is for now anyway.
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Last edited by Vicki82; 10-02-2012 at 11:38 PM.
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  #46  
Old 10-03-2012, 12:07 AM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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Quote:
I do not like that the other women in his life are getting their needs met while I get the leftovers. It makes me feel unimportant.
Quote:
I do not like that I rarely get to talk to him on the phone or Skype, or even use IM chat.
does not compute with

Quote:
I like that he shows me he cares about me in various ways. He is there for me when I need someone to talk to, he makes it a point to ask how I am feeling, and he just generally gives me the overall feeling of being cared for.
Quote:
I am uncomfortable that he is willing to "control" this kind of information, especially since he and I are fluid bonded and that requires a lot of trust from me.
does not compute with

Quote:
I do trust him at the core, despite my current worries. I feel comfortable with him.
There's other pairings there that do not line up. Those are some. Why don't they line up?

Galagirl
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  #47  
Old 10-03-2012, 12:09 AM
Vicki82 Vicki82 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GalaGirl View Post
does not compute with





does not compute with



There's other pairings there that do not line up.

Why don't they?

Galagirl
The disparity is pre and post all this overwhelming crap in his life. Right now they don't match, but they certainly did before. I can only assume that when he has time for me again that they will again. And, we do still text and email, but it's just not the same.

Certainly, right now things suck and I am not getting what I need from him.
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Last edited by Vicki82; 10-03-2012 at 12:12 AM.
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  #48  
Old 10-03-2012, 12:12 AM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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Quote:
I can only assume that when he has time for me again that they will again. And, we do still text and email, but it's just not the same.
And my point is -- if you are valuable and important, why isn't he making the time for you?

So he has work stress and a house remodel. So what? He cannot email you a note once a week to keep in touch? What are you? Chopped liver?

You deserve better treatment than this.

I find it sad you do not feel like you have the right to ask for your relationship to feed you in the way you need to be fed. We teach others how we want to be treated. You are teaching him you are ok being given leftovers. What motivates him to change that and feed you better? If anything -- your hubby is right. What if he is phasing you out? Just seeing just how little relationship maintaining he has to do while still getting all that YOU put into it.

GG

Last edited by GalaGirl; 10-03-2012 at 12:23 AM.
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  #49  
Old 10-03-2012, 12:13 AM
Vicki82 Vicki82 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GalaGirl View Post
And my point is -- if you are valuable and important, why isn't he making
the time for you?

So he has work stress and a house remodel. So what? He cannot email you a note once a week to keep in touch? What are you? Chopped liver?

You deserve better treatment than this.

GG
Oh, I hear from him more than once a week! It's not like he is ignoring me completely. But it's a big come down to go from talking for hours every day to maybe a text or two a day and a brief email once a day.

My apologies if I made it out like I wasn't hearing from him at all. I won't be seeing him for those nine weeks and it's been four already, so that part really hurts. As a matter of fact, if I hadn't flown to see him at his layover point on his trip last month, I wouldn't have seen him since July. I don't know how I'd be managing that long, to be honest.

Maybe it's my problem, that I need so much communication. If you thought that getting an email once a week was enough, maybe my unhappiness getting a couple a day is disproportionate. But I feel like since I can't see him very often, that I need that communication to stay connected with him. Without it, I start to get unhappy.

He literally does not have the time to make for me right now. I know how things are. So I get the occasional email or text. He doesn't have time to sit down and chat with me for hours like he used to do, and I know that's true. Unfortunately, time is a finite resource. He gives me what he can. On Saturday night when I was very upset after reading those blog posts of his, he stayed with me until 1am when I'm sure he was just dying to go to bed. We spent an hour on the phone yesterday. He is giving me what he can.
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Last edited by Vicki82; 10-03-2012 at 12:24 AM.
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  #50  
Old 10-03-2012, 12:26 AM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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Well, if he was my LDR and I heard from him once a week *I* would be ok.

But I am not you and I'm not the one going hungry.

If you need more than that, you need more than that. You have that right.

YOU are the one in the relationship.

You could try to sit tight another 5 weeks but take note of how all this makes you feel.

You do not sound like you thrive in LDR -- maybe you don't want to deal in those any more. You like the happy hormone hit from the sex, and the NRE but those wear off. And there needs to be more than just that to have a real connection. You yourself recognize that.

GG

Last edited by GalaGirl; 10-03-2012 at 12:29 AM.
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