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  #41  
Old 07-18-2012, 11:59 PM
km34 km34 is offline
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Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
How does meeting this person ease your concerns of contracting STDs from them? In meeting them do you find that you get a "vibe" that their genitals are free from complication? Do you examine them on the dinner table?

Personally I'd be satisfied by seeing their test results (if only in email, as someone else suggested).
It doesn't necessarily ease my mind about the risks, but makes me more comfortable with accepting them. I will be a lot less pissed at that considerate, intelligent woman I met a few months ago that may have passed me herpes than I will be at the bitch who refused to meet me. You know? It doesn't mean the woman who didn't want to meet me really is a bitch, but in my mind she refused to do something as simple as have a cup of coffee or pop in and say hi real quick before they go out one night AND she gave me herpes so she seems like an awfully big bitch.

(On that note, if I ended up with herpes, more than likely I wouldn't be that pissed in general, but I would expect to think nasty thoughts if the person has insisted he/she was clean and blah blah blah to get out of meeting me and then either of us end up with it. It's a pretty big risk in swinging which I do and with poly when there are multiple partners having sex, so the likelihood that I have been/will be exposed is pretty darn high and tests aren't always that accurate for herpes, so clean results don't necessarily mean clean results.)

Like someone else said, that face-to-face meeting makes her a person and not some faceless being that is affecting my life.
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  #42  
Old 07-19-2012, 12:50 PM
sparklepop sparklepop is online now
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Sparklepop-I think your answer rocked.
Feel free to visit me anytime! LOL!
Why, thank you!

Do I have to meet your +baggage first?

You'll have to meet mine. She'll be the one at the bar with the chainsaw and crazed jealous look in her eyes.

~teases~




Marcus - you're a very interesting new addition to the forum, Sir. I like reading your comments. I see a lot of my old opinions on poly in you. I find it particularly interesting when you talk about mono fear rules being taken over to poly. That's something I try to avoid and wonder where the middle ground is. I do love a debate. Maybe you can start a thread with some of your thoughts and we can all re-write poly together?


Katie - I hope you come back and tell us how the meeting went and what your thoughts are on meeting the +baggage.
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  #43  
Old 07-19-2012, 07:18 PM
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CielDuMatin CielDuMatin is offline
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Rules are not unique to polyamory. The exact same instincts of control and ownership which are involved in monogamy are carried over into our polyamorous relationships. All of these requirements of when people have to meet, how much they are allowed to share before hand, how "close" they are allowed to become before taking certain steps, are simply methods of control. We are trying to control the actions of our partners and their partners through fear that, if we don't we will be harmed.
No, no, a thousand times NO!

Look, this may not fit into YOUR model of what polyamory is and YOUR way of doing things, but please don't presume to extrapolate that on the rest of the poly community and make such sweeping judgements.

A group relationship, for me, is a team. We are all working together in some way (some more closely with others, some more distantly) to make things work. There has to be a degree of co-operation, and an ability to problem-solve together so that life is just not chock-full of drama.

For one person to single-handedly bring someone in, and expect everything to work somehow magically, with this new person functioning seamlessly as part of that team is highly unlikely. You can increase the chances of that being successful if everyone is involved in the decision-making process to the degree they wish, rather than one person being arrogant enough to make decisions for everyone else in the group.

So agreements are put in place (which you can call rules if you want, but for us they are agreements) that everyone involved in the group has some input into whether someone new is going to 'fit". In practice, this usually means finding out whether there are any "show-stoppers" that the others can't see for some reason. It is a co-operative, joint decision and we have all agreed on that process. And this means that it's everyone in the group, not just a chosen few.

Also, it's a two-way street - doing this before anything gets too involved allows the new person to meet everyone involved and know exactly what they are getting into, rather than keeping everyone hidden until folks are in deep and THEN realising that there's someone already in the relationship that is going to cause unmitigated chaos in their lives. Nobody deserves that.

If you see this is as control based out of fear, then, frankly, I wonder what paradigms you are living by.


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These rules creep me out - it all just sounds like marriage.
OH, so you are anti-marriage?

I am curious as to what you define, then, as "marriage", because I know term means different things to different people - for some it's a legal thing, for others monogamy, and for still others, a group marriage. For me, it means long-term committed relationships - things that should neither be entered into, nor cast aside lightly, but done with forethought and agreement of all involved, rather than everything done on whims of the individual and everyone else being forced to accept it or move out...

You appear to see this sort of set-up as being too dependent on each other, and this is harmful. It seems to me like you are advocating independence for all involved, and that that would work best. (Am I right so far?) What I am advocating, instead, is interdependence - the whole being greater than the sum of the parts - the ability for the group collectively to make a better decision than any individual in it.
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Last edited by CielDuMatin; 07-19-2012 at 07:24 PM.
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  #44  
Old 07-19-2012, 08:04 PM
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LovingRadiance LovingRadiance is offline
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Quote:
Do I have to meet your +baggage first?

You'll have to meet mine. She'll be the one at the bar with the chainsaw and crazed jealous look in her eyes.

~teases~
I'll wear chainsaw proof jacket. My+baggage would probably love to meet-assuming of course they weren't working. LOL!
Sometimes, it sucks living in Alaska-because we're so isolated from everyone! It's not like we can plan a road trip and go to the camps and stuff that go on stateside! It would be so cool to be able to meet like-minded people who didn't freak out over there being three of us and not two! LOL!


Quote:
Marcus - you're a very interesting new addition to the forum, Sir. I like reading your comments. I see a lot of my old opinions on poly in you. I find it particularly interesting when you talk about mono fear rules being taken over to poly. That's something I try to avoid and wonder where the middle ground is. I do love a debate. Maybe you can start a thread with some of your thoughts and we can all re-write poly together?
Hey, maybe we could also have a debate thread. I Love to debate. Not particularly great at it-but enjoy it! And, since I took it upon myself to pm Marcus and torment him with questions, I know he's good at responding even if my logic is flawed!!
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  #45  
Old 07-19-2012, 08:05 PM
katiesunshine katiesunshine is offline
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The date with the girlfriend was brief and a bit awkward, but nice. Good potential. Wehad our meeting on neutral ground (i.e not in any of our homes, which I think is a must for a first time meeting).

My situation is that I am very new to poly and I think a lot of flexibility was important in this case. I think if I had been forced to meet before having a couple of dates with my lover I would have backed out, and that would have been a shame as everyone is very nice and now we have reached point where we are more cool with things. To me it is also a question of me having to feel comfortable with the whole idea of dating someone in a poly relationship, and that takes time for me. I really don't see what the problem is if I meet with him on a couple of occasions, get to know him him better, and that helps me to quickly get to a point where I feel more comfortable about the whole idea of being in a poly relationship, which means meeting the girlfriend. I saw my lover 4 times before meeting her, which I think is relatively quickly.
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  #46  
Old 07-19-2012, 08:08 PM
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LovingRadiance LovingRadiance is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CielDuMatin View Post
A group relationship, for me, is a team. We are all working together in some way (some more closely with others, some more distantly) to make things work. There has to be a degree of co-operation, and an ability to problem-solve together so that life is just not chock-full of drama.

For one person to single-handedly bring someone in, and expect everything to work somehow magically, with this new person functioning seamlessly as part of that team is highly unlikely. You can increase the chances of that being successful if everyone is involved in the decision-making process to the degree they wish, rather than one person being arrogant enough to make decisions for everyone else in the group.

So agreements are put in place (which you can call rules if you want, but for us they are agreements) that everyone involved in the group has some input into whether someone new is going to 'fit". In practice, this usually means finding out whether there are any "show-stoppers" that the others can't see for some reason. It is a co-operative, joint decision and we have all agreed on that process. And this means that it's everyone in the group, not just a chosen few.

Also, it's a two-way street - doing this before anything gets too involved allows the new person to meet everyone involved and know exactly what they are getting into, rather than keeping everyone hidden until folks are in deep and THEN realising that there's someone already in the relationship that is going to cause unmitigated chaos in their lives. Nobody deserves that.
This resonates greatly with my perspective and GG's. It's what Maca says he wants-but sometimes really struggles with, because fear gets in the way and he's afraid that if he lets the process work, he'll end up losing.
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  #47  
Old 07-19-2012, 09:51 PM
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CielDuMatin CielDuMatin is offline
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Originally Posted by katiesunshine View Post
My situation is that I am very new to poly and I think a lot of flexibility was important in this case. I think if I had been forced to meet before having a couple of dates with my lover I would have backed out, and that would have been a shame as everyone is very nice and now we have reached point where we are more cool with things. To me it is also a question of me having to feel comfortable with the whole idea of dating someone in a poly relationship, and that takes time for me. I really don't see what the problem is if I meet with him on a couple of occasions, get to know him him better, and that helps me to quickly get to a point where I feel more comfortable about the whole idea of being in a poly relationship, which means meeting the girlfriend. I saw my lover 4 times before meeting her, which I think is relatively quickly.
This sounds like it worked for you and had a good outcome for all - this is fantastic, and I'm really glad that it did.

I would say that if the four meet-ups were getting together in a coffee house and discussing music, the world, and whatever other subjects came to mind then yes, that's nice and prompt - for our setup, none of us would have any issue with one of our partners going out and doing this.

If, however, those four times were overnight sex marathons, then I think that we would definitely feel that this was too far, too fast without meeting up with us first. For each of us, we have no interest in casual sex, so it would mean something.

I guess the point I am trying to make is that it's not so much the number of times you meet that is "too fast" or "too slow" - it's what you do when you meet...

Make sense?
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  #48  
Old 07-19-2012, 10:00 PM
katiesunshine katiesunshine is offline
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most of the occasions we had sex, but no overnight stays. Just meetings for a few hours.

Seriously, it would feel really silly for us to just sit around and talk if there is a spark and sexual interest. This reminds me a bit of how do you define sex. Is it when there is actual penetration, or is it just intense flirting? If we were just talking for sure both of us would be thinking about wanting to have sex.....

This is more about spending time together getting to know each other, and that also involves sex.

Again, I think the the point here is we are all different. We do it our way and that has worked out for us
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  #49  
Old 07-19-2012, 10:17 PM
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CielDuMatin CielDuMatin is offline
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We obviously work from very different ideas of relationships...

Quote:
Originally Posted by katiesunshine View Post
Seriously, it would feel really silly for us to just sit around and talk if there is a spark and sexual interest.
For me the sexual interest can only really come once I get to know a person - they can be attractive as all hell on the outside, but the insides (what's in their heads) can be ugly. I find that the sex itself is far better if I get to know the person's brain quite well first.

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Originally Posted by katiesunshine View Post
This is more about spending time together getting to know each other, and that also involves sex.
Glad that works for you - it wouldn't for me.

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Originally Posted by katiesunshine View Post
Again, I think the the point here is we are all different. We do it our way and that has worked out for us
Absolutely! As long as all involved in your relationships are ok with it, then absolutely go for it!
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  #50  
Old 07-19-2012, 10:26 PM
sparklepop sparklepop is online now
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I'm also glad if it works for you - that's the thing about poly, it really is about viewpoints and what works for whoever is involved.

Just a quickie question - does your lover's girlfriend know you guys have already slept together? Or does she think you haven't yet?
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