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  #21  
Old 07-18-2012, 12:44 PM
katiesunshine katiesunshine is offline
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Well I have been tested for a variety of diseases, and I am totally clean. And I also don't think giving this information in person is necessary. Forwarding the email from the doctor would suffice here I would say.

I would really like to understand in depth why the need to meet before sex is so important. Especially if you trust your partner....I would very much like some input here other than 'that's just the way it is'
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  #22  
Old 07-18-2012, 12:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katiesunshine View Post
I would very much like some input here other than 'that's just the way it is'
You already got two answers from km34, which gave you the basis for her reasoning and definitely were NOT saying "that's the way it is." Apparently, the reasons given are not good enough reasons to you. I have a feeling that you will object to any reason, because it seems you just don't like the idea.
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Last edited by nycindie; 07-18-2012 at 12:58 PM.
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  #23  
Old 07-18-2012, 01:24 PM
katiesunshine katiesunshine is offline
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OK I admit my last remark was a bit provocative...I understand this is a sensitive issue.

I just feel that if the health issue is resolved, and Noone is looking to steal anyone away, does it really matter if you meet before or after sex? That was my question.....
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  #24  
Old 07-18-2012, 01:35 PM
sparklepop sparklepop is offline
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I can see where you are coming from.

I just saw the newer posts as I was typing this, so I'll actually shuffle this around a bit.

Actually, why it's important to some couples for them to meet play partners before sex happens is only an issue if you are genuinely wanting to change your viewpoint, learn and grow so that you can become more flexible about meeting a date's partner in the future.

If you are looking to expand your viewpoint, that's great.

Here we go - it's important for a variety of reasons, some of which have been covered. It's not always about fear. Sometimes partners are just nosy. Sometimes they don't get out much and want to socialise. Most often, they just want to know that this person entering their orbit is a good egg.

It doesn't actually matter if, for example, you date a guy and never meet his wife - you're still entering her orbit. You're going to have some sort of effect. Whether your sex life with him sucks and his wife reaps the rewards of that, whether your sex life with him rocks and she suffers for a few weeks, whether he sends you a text whilst they are at dinner.... in some small or large way, your existence is going to effect this other person.

From a more human perspective, let's say someone does feel a little threatened. Let's say that they want to meet you to dissolve that fear. What's wrong with that? That's a great thing. They are promoting the longterm happiness of you, themselves and their partner. That's something I'd encourage, not be hesitant about.

And incidentally... yes... meeting someone can definitely remove fear. Instead of being this scary object, you are suddenly a real, talking, living person. If you're a good, kind, compassionate, understanding person, that will help even more.

As for what I was originally writing...

I am just speaking for myself here.

If I date a person who is already in a relationship, I do not consider them single. I consider them '+ baggage'. Their '+baggage' is that they have another very significant other to consider. If I'm getting involved, I have to consider them too. If I don't like that, well, I can go and find myself a single woman. If I want to be the top priority, I'm not going to get what I want if that person believes in hierarchical poly (primary/secondary).

You can look at meeting a person's partner two ways:
1. You're meeting because you all want this to go further, to get the 'green light'
2. You're meeting because meeting the partner is a prerequisite before the real dating stage - regardless of whether you know how well things are going to go

For me, I always take it the second viewpoint. If I choose to date a married woman and their husband wants to come along on the first date (this has actually happened), I make a decision on what I'm comfortable with.

Incidentally, I'm 100% fine with that - because to me, she's not single. She's +baggage. They have their own relationship setup and I'm the one coming into that relationship. Whatever makes them happy, makes me happy. Essentially, let's put it bluntly - I want to bang his wife, I want to make sure he's ok about that. That's just good manners! It doesn't matter if he wants to meet me because he's threatened, nosy, extremely social, doesn't get out much. The reason doesn't matter - it's their relationship guideline and it's my choice whether or not I can mesh with that.

Even if the reason was fear, I'm not going to judge that. I feel compassion for the partner of any woman I might date. I want to help settle their fear, if they have it. Fear is human. Whatever they need in order for that to happen, I'll do. As long as I'm happy too.

Now, to me, that's not about the primary couple making all the rules. It's about the primary couple having a relationship that works for them and trying to find people who are compatible with that system.

So... if you know that you do not like to meet someone's partner quickly, that is your own personal relationship expectation. But just as you would not want to be pressured into meeting quickly, it's not fair of you to expect their relationship setup to stretch uncomfortably. Compromise is a beautiful thing - but when you can't compromise, you're just not compatible. It's just the way of the world.

Ultimately, you have a few options here:

1. Stop dating men whose partners want to meet you quickly.
2. Start only dating single men or men with no primary partner.
3. See if you can become more comfortable with meeting quickly, by taking a different viewpoint.
4. Keep dating men whose partners want to meet you quickly and hope for a happy compromise.
5. Consider swinging, or some kind of casual sex group kind of dating, since polyamory usually has more emotions/guidelines/hierarchy

To me, poly guidelines are no different to any dating guidelines. It's all about compatibility. We all have relationship expectations; some we can budge on and some we can't.
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Last edited by sparklepop; 07-18-2012 at 01:37 PM.
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  #25  
Old 07-18-2012, 01:38 PM
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I think it really is a personal thing, up to the people involved. How does someone feel the "health issue" is "resolved?" How does someone feel confident no one is trying to steal anyone away? For some people it could all be done via email, even though emails can be manipulated and tampered with very easily. For others, it must be in person or it feels discourteous. There is a lot to be said for having a willingness to interact in person with an SO's primary partner.

For some poly folks, another person having sex with their spouse or partner is a sort of privilege that must be "earned" somehow, and that could simply be done by meeting them first. All that being said, many poly people have very loose arrangements. Not everyone feels a meeting must happen before sex. I'd only had an exchange of two emails with Burnsy's wife before having sex with him, and he and I had been communicating for months before that even happened. None of us really felt any urgency for me to meet her, it was all very relaxed.

If everyone is clear about what their own personal boundaries are, then one would know what they'd be willing to do to work with others' boundaries. No one HAS TO accept someone else's rules or boundaries without asking for an adjustment that would make it work better within their own. It's all customizable!
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Last edited by nycindie; 07-18-2012 at 01:47 PM.
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  #26  
Old 07-18-2012, 01:56 PM
katiesunshine katiesunshine is offline
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Thanks a lot for all of your valuable input. It is greatly appreciated and interesting for a newbie like me

Now I am off to meet with 'the significant other'
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  #27  
Old 07-18-2012, 05:42 PM
GreenMom GreenMom is offline
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From my very limited experiences...

I met Marty's wife the very first time he and I saw each other in person. And he met my husband at the same gathering. It was important to me, as a poly-newbie, to make sure via direct contact that his wife was okay with us dating, and to give Marty the opportunity to see that my husband was okay with it. The whole "trust, but verify" thing.

On the flip side, my husband had a relationship for a couple months this year that he hid from me, and since the other woman did not have a "oh, I should meet his wife to make sure things are on the up and up", when I did find out about it, the poop hit the fan. He had told her things were okay, so she had no idea I was in the dark.

Just my thoughts. I'm not saying anyone in your situation is dishonest, but I am a huge fan of the brief face to face to get direct confirmation from the metamour that things are truly okay with them/they are in the loop/etc. And I'm not talking just about intercourse/other physical things. I'm talking about any relationship - casual dating, casual sex, serious dating, whatever it is. I would much rather have a brief awkward conversation than find out months later the other partner is not actually cool with it.
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  #28  
Old 07-18-2012, 06:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katiesunshine View Post
Ok I think it is important that the primary couple has rules, and that should be respected.

However, I can't help but wonder why exactly it is so important that everyone meets before anything sexual happens. If you trust your partner why not let him or her have sex and get to know this new person more fully? Will meeting before anything sexual happens really take away the fears you have?

Or am I totally missing the point here?
There's no fear-it's drama. We have kids. If someone is wanting to be a part of my life, GG's life or Maca's life in any significant way, they are goign to be a aprt of all of our lives-because of our lifestyle and responsibilities to the kids.
I did things VERY differently when I was single and if I had no kids at home-that would mean a lot more freedom too.
But, every girl who was nervous about meeting me-has been a cowgirl who wanted to "win Maca over". Whilst neither he or I have concerns of him GOING anywhere-the headaches from their harassment when they figured out that wasn't going to happen, hurt our kids and was destructive for even my boyfriend.

We don't all live in a vacuum. Our choices and our partners affect everyone in the family. So we want to ensure that they understand the ramifications. Furthermore, if someone wants to only see one of us-without contact with the rest of us, then they're only going to get to see us once or twice a month. Not because of rules, it's because of our schedules and having two kids at home. Maca and GG work opposite schedules and I'm in school. So when one of us is free, no one else is free to keep the kids-except for our family times.
BUT if someone was willing to meet the family and was able to socialize with the family, they could see their lover every day that they were available.

Thus far, people are wanting more than just 1-2 visits a week. But, if they won't meet me, they aren't socializing with our kids. Likewise, if they won't meet Maca or GG, they aren't socializing with our kids.

That said, there is no requirement that they hang out with ME all of the time in order to see Maca (or vice versa). But, they do have to be willing to acknowledge and accept the family, and the responsibilities that go with it.

FOr example, if Maca has a date, but GG gets called into work and I'm at school-he's going to have to cancel if they have refused to meet us. But, if they are already accepted with the family, they could just re-plan their date for something kid friendly and still be able to see one another.

Quote:
Originally Posted by km34 View Post
If the person refuses to meet the spouse by that point, then chances are he/she isn't going to want to put up with the other things that come along with being in a relationship with one of us so it's an easy way to weed out people who really are in it for a sexual reason instead of a loving one. It doesn't have anything to do with trust or fear, it's just a step that needs to be taken at some point and before sex happens seems to be a good time for it.
Great short summary.
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  #29  
Old 07-18-2012, 06:38 PM
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LovingRadiance LovingRadiance is offline
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Nyc-
yes, this is why I struggled in my other thread with wording.
Maca's 2 year long "girlfriend" was much like this. They were casual in the sense that there was never a chance for integration into the family and they met up for sex infrequently.
But, they were 'tight' in terms of emotional, intellectual and spiritual connection.

Of course we met her together (that was circumstantial) and she was awesome. She actually hosted my last birthday party.

But, she was also not at all concerned about meeting the family and when things came up and he couldn't meet up with her alone for whatever reason-she would ask if we could all meet anyway. So she knew the kids and myself and GG and I would say she was a friend-even though I only saw her every few months or so.

I do understand what you mean about that difference. It's just hard to define it by terminology.

At any rate, one of the reasons it worked for so long with her (she moved out of state by the way)- is because she also had a family of her own and so she totally understood the importance of keeping her kid safe from predatory people, ensuring that lovers were accepting that they would never be MORE important than the child and that getting along with and respecting family responsibilities was critical to being able to have that loving relationship-even as casual as it was.



It really is very different if the people in question don't share households and child responsibilities.

It's hard for some people who don't have those responsibilities to understand that for those of us who have them can't simply drop them and run on a whim.
So we have more freedom to interact frequently if the person does take time to meet the rest of the family and build at least a friendly relationship (not necessarily FRIENDS, but friendly).
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  #30  
Old 07-18-2012, 06:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by km34 View Post
If a woman isn't ready to deal with meeting me in person, so be it, but that means I'm not ready to deal with the reality of her health potentially affecting mine.
This goes both ways as well. My husband (SO FAR) has tested negative for herpes. Therefore, all he has to tell a new prospective is that he is clean (cause he is).
BUT I have herpes and we do NOT use protection.

I am very open about this information.
However, due to privacy rights, it's MY right to tell, not anyone else's.

Now, because of the person I am, I ensure that both Maca and GG know they may share that trivia with anyone.


BUT-our boundaries are specific that they are not allowed to share with me, personal info of their other lovers without their other lovers permission AND

they are not allowed to share MY personal information with other lovers with out my permission.

SOOOOOO-
if I was dating someone new-I would WANT to meet their other partners and would want them to meet mine for ALL of our piece of mind.


Using a condom DOES NOT remove the risk of getting herpes (or most other STD's). It REDUCES the risk of the fluid being shared, but herpes are shared through skin contact not only fluid.

Furthermore, if you don't meet their partner-how do you know they are being honest and upfront?

In fact, Maca lied by omission about a lot of things with the new girl he was dating-because he was "putting his best food forward" the same way he was taught in the mono world.FIguring his "bad habits" could be addressed after they had a relationship.
SHE believed him unconditionally.
She got hurt.

Had she met me, talked to me and considered the difference in the stories-she and I would have found out before she got her heartbroken.
And I should note-they only kissed and had light touching over clothing.
But, 6 months of online communication-followed by a couple months of coffee dates on Sundays and a few dinners. She met me after that twice-and everything crumbled because she trusted him implicitly-but the information she had was faulty.

He accepted her lifestyle-she presumed that meant he was ok living it (which is quite certainly is not) and she got pissy with me assuming that the boundaries we have were for my benefit (when they were for his). She found out that hard way, something she could have avoided if she'd taken time to get to know us both because she would have seen him around me and how he acts around me as well as how he acts around my boyfriend which was the REAL signal of his possessiveness, clinginess and insecurities-which she never saw when she saw him alone-because there was nothing for him to be possessive, clingy or insecure about-it was only the two of them.
She sure noticed fast that anytime ANYONE else was there, he was a "totally different person". But that person wasn't someone she wanted to date-it was the REAL him.

When anyone-even in the mono world-chooses to date someone in a vacuum, without meeting the most important people in their life-they get a misconstrued image of who that person is. Which is fine if they intend to ONLY EVER be with that person alone. But, if they want to become a part of their real life-they may find out that who someone is alone, when they can be anyone they want, is often not who they are in the face of their real life responsibilities and family/friend relationships.
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Last edited by LovingRadiance; 07-18-2012 at 06:53 PM. Reason: to add a line
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