Asking for consent in open relationships

[Tonberry]

Ah, then that's fine You may now resume the discussion

[GalaGirl]

LOL. I dunno, man. I thought that was the point? I dowanna resume talking to Thorg(s)!

Eeeeek! Run awaaaaaay!

GG

[feelyunicorn]

Originally Posted by GalaGirl

It's more romantic if the question is actually ASKED. "I'd like X with you... may I?" or "I find the idea of X with you appealing... how would you feel about that?" You are engaging with me as a person, asking my thoughts and feedback.

The sentence in bold is exactly what I mean by 'asking for consent', and I think it`s implied in the expression itself. I don`t know why, but people usually tend to assume both extremes upon hearing it. Some think it`s sissy and insecure; others think it`s near-rape.

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Edit: I think the misunderstanding...

a) from the asking-is-sissy camp comes from partners who have already been given consent, but do not trust that it`s been given to them;

b) from the asking-is-rape camp comes from partners who feel entitled to a "Yes!"

But...I would say that neither insecurity nor entitlement are intrinsic to asking for consent.

[GalaGirl]

Well, I'm viewing from my lens as a woman. That plays in here.

Some think it`s sissy and insecure; others think it`s near-rape.

Who is "some" here? People in general? Some men? Some women?

Cuz as a woman I NEVER thought double checking on the consent was a sissy thing to do. I viewed it as respectful of me.

Ok, maybe sometimes annoying if it is quadruple checked, but hey, I'll take extra checks, reassure and hope the person understands that YEAH! I said OK! I rather be mildly annoyed than be raped. I'd PREFER negotiate relationship as sane equals but... dude. Guys are bigger than me. My dating risk includes that sad reality factor.

And as a dating woman in the 20's decade... my experience was what it was.

a) Thor hungry, thor want eat! (creepy, brusque, immediate red flag.)

b) Ask more than once for consent (could get mildly annoying but infinitely preferable to creepy. The INTENT is repsectful of me as a person, so ok, I'll work with it and see what might be here or what... could still red flag but at least not Thorgy.)

c) once, maybe twice, did I experience some magic brewing with a 20's man that pitched it to me at the right notch like we were sane, consenting, equal partners trying to negotiate something.

It is what it is. I've not dated in my 30's because we're closed. So.... *shrug*

GG

[feelyunicorn]

Originally Posted by GalaGirl

Well, I'm viewing from my lens as a woman.

Clearly. Since, I could hardly understand what the hell you were talking about. The parts I did understand I have already addressed in my previous post.

Much luck to you.

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Edit:

Originally Posted by GalaGirl

People in general?

You got it.

Originally Posted by GalaGirl

Guys are bigger than me.

I`ll be sympathetic to that fact, as long as your supposed fragility is not used as a bullying tool against me, much like white people who lock their car doors when they see a black man crossing the street even though the guy`s got a Rolex on his wrist; as if to send a message.

[GalaGirl]

I could hardly understand what the hell you were talking about.

LOL. You sound alien to me too. I had to back up again. And I can still hardly understand.

I'm amused because I've come to this place with people a few times before.

Look! It's a pretty bowl with some fish!
Look! It's a bowl with some pretty fish!
Look at the pretty bowl, darn it!
Look at the pretty fish, already!

And the thing that is needed is to step back and acknowledge there is indeed a bowl with some fish in the room.

Pretty-factor TBD on eye of beholder.

I can understand how passive-aggressiveness works for hetero monos. It may even be its price of admission.

I don't even see how passive aggressive works for ANYONE wanting to be in a healthy rship. That kind of thing is a drag. How does it work? (show me possible fish please. I no see. #boggled )

However, I think in open relationships with multiple partners, asking for consent is essential. I do not see how open relationships can succeed otherwise

Of course. Is this not a big ol' DUH? No mono rship will fly well without it either. (Yes... I see the bowl in the room....and? )

I`ll be sympathetic to that fact, as long as your supposed fragility is not used as a bullying tool against me, much like white people who lock their car doors when they see a black man crossing the street; as if to send a message.

Amused. I'm not a delicate flower type. Why would I pull a melodramatic swoon to play out mind games? Much faster to tell the person what I feel straight up.

But yeah, I'm also not looking to get into creepy dark too lonely places with a Thorg-y type man either. Dates happen in nice open places and everyone BYO car to location until some trust thing is formed and the rship moves forward a bit. Poly dating is not immune to weirdo people floating around in it -- male or female.

GG

[feelyunicorn]

Originally Posted by GalaGirl

LOL. You sound alien to me too. I had to back up again. And I can still hardly understand.

Of course. Is this not a big ol' DUH?

It's just become pretty clear to me why you`re having dating problems. There`s no envying your boyfriend, to be sure.

[GalaGirl]

It's just become pretty clear to me why you`re having dating problems. There`s no envying your boyfriend, to be sure.

Kinda mean there, dude. (For record: we're closed. I'm not in a dating space right now.)

But ok, I accidentally hit a nerve. I'll own that, and then I have to apologize to you for accidentally your hurting feelings somehow. I was not my intent. I am sincerely sorry.

I thought we were just having a good time kicking around general ideas in the realm of "Isn't poly dating sometimes so weird? Wassup on that consent thing?" like a casual banter in the "General Poly Discussion" area of the forum. *shrug*

Next time though, I'd rather you just tell me -- "Um... starting to hit a nerve. You doing that on purpose or what?" to help clarify rather than to try to my hurt feelings on purpose. That's not cool, dude.

But I'll own my part on this one if I was just being too goofball for you. My bad. Again my apologies.

Peace.
GG

[ksandra]

Originally Posted by Tonberry

However, if I'm going to kiss someone, I'm of the opinion that asking is unromantic. It's absolutely possible to just slowly lean towards the person, go half the way and wait for them to go the other half. If they don't, then it's a no.

Part of the rush for me is reading peoples' body language and then sense that you're both singing the same song, without necessarily having to say it right away. On a subconscious level too, I think it's a big bonus when another person's actions are matching yours, it's like signalling to your lizard brain that you both want the same thing/are of the same clan/etc.

It can also be super awkward to figure out how to bring words into action since they're two different types of communication. Personally it feels weird to go from: "May I kiss you?" to the act of kissing. Anything that happens after speech almost has a timeline to it, like you can't lead in by caressing someone or giving a massage or anything. If you ask to kiss them then the next action has to be a kiss. For me that takes out some of the spontaneity.

Can there be a balance though? Like can body language get us to a certain point and then words can help move us into the next stage of intimacy? Thoughts?

[Emm]

Originally Posted by GalaGirl

LOL. You sound alien to me too. I had to back up again. And I can still hardly understand.

This may be less a case of gender differences than it is of sentence structure. GG, you seem to go off on stream of consciousness jaunts from time to time, and when you write in your own personal shorthand you are difficult to follow.