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  #11  
Old 05-11-2009, 08:24 PM
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Mark,

I think most of the useful advice concerning polyamorous relationships and their unique challenges, etc., is universally useful. But some of it concerns unique or particular situations or conditions. I don't have enough experience with heterosexual loving relationships to feel that I'm familiar with the nuances of those which differ from my experience as a queer man. (I'm bi-, and although I had a brief loverly relationship with a woman, all of my long term loves have been male.) So, I'm hoping the poly heteros in here will chime in with guidance for you and your two women lovers.

Anyway, there is tons of stuff on polyamory to be found on the internet. Try a www.google.com search of polyamory, polyfidelity, V.... Also, there are a bunch of books on the topic, and some of them are mentioned and discussed in our topic in here on books, magazines, websites....

I'd be happy to answer any particular questions which you may have about polyamorous practice -- though it will all be uniquely from my perspective. I think most of the insights I have on the subject probably apply to all sorts of configurations and gender mixes.

Do your lovers experience any jealousy toward one another, or fear of loss, insecurity..., related to your non-conventional lovestyle? Are there particular problems which need addressing?
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  #12  
Old 05-11-2009, 09:41 PM
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I agree JRM; he is in fact in a polyamorous relationship as am I. I may have got hung up on identifying the monogamous nature of myself and his partners and did not focus on the larger polyamorous nature of both relationship structures.

I also recognize your accurate description of his "v" relationship which reflects my own. The difference being in " The word "triad" (also, "triangle") is generally used by people within the polyamory "community" to refer to a situation in which three people are each loving, "romantic" and sexual partners with each of the others in the grouping of three. " Which validates sex as a core component in polyamory. Thank you for this clarification.
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  #13  
Old 05-11-2009, 11:51 PM
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MonoV,

Things are actually just a little more complex than you may realize. This is because it is NOT the case that all "romantic relationships" or even "passionate bonded relationships" have a sexual component, per se.

While it is less common, and less commonly understood, today in America and in the world/west...-- as contrasted with, say, the 19th century --, there is a tradition of "romantic friendship" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romantic_friendship . This tradition makes me wonder whether it is at all proper to call people "lovers" simply because they have a sexual relationship. After all, many sexual relationships aren't all that damn loving.

So sex, again, isn't the most central or core thing in polyamory. Love is. Whether a group is a V or a triangle, I suppose, depends more on the quality of love than the quantity of sex between the participants.
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Old 05-12-2009, 12:36 AM
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JRM...Do your lovers experience any jealousy toward one another, or fear of loss, insecurity..., related to your non-conventional lovestyle? Are there particular problems which need addressing?

Wife has some issues...she's trying to figure out why I'm so happy now and she's feeling a little badly that after 27 years she was not able to be everything and more to keep me totally happy and fulfilled all by herself. My (our) best friend is still trying to figure out how she fits in, feels alone sleeping by herself most nights, even if I make love to her and sleep with her part of the night before going back downstairs to the master bedroom and wife so that I can get up on time and off to work in the AM.......she says she can live with 1/2 of me as that's better than all of any man she's ever had, but she still struggles......we are trying to communicate our needs and wants but obviously there are some gaps, struggles, etc......
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Old 05-12-2009, 12:43 AM
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So sex, again, isn't the most central or core thing in polyamory. Love is. Whether a group is a V or a triangle, I suppose, depends more on the quality of love than the quantity of sex between the participants.

I must say there is definately love amongst all 3 of us......and we have all been friends for more than 20 years.....this should be the most fulfilling situation in the world for each of us.....I hope we can make it work for the rest of our lives.....is that being too optomistic?
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  #16  
Old 05-12-2009, 01:17 AM
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Of course it is possible! Me, Redpepper and her husband are living it and it is amazing! It's worth working for if you are all genuine and open. Think positive and communicate lots.
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  #17  
Old 05-12-2009, 01:25 AM
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"So sex, again, isn't the most central or core thing in polyamory. Love is"
Love with sex/sexual components is a different type of love. It does not relate to any other. Generally the only thing that would preclude sex from an intimate relationship is age or medical condition.

Without the intimacy of sexual energy/contact, I don't think there would even need to be a term for these relationships we have. Sexuality is integral to the relationships formed in polyamory. It is the defining difference that separates it from deep friendships.

I'm more than willing to agree to disagree..we simply have different views.
With respect JRM.
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  #18  
Old 05-12-2009, 02:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark1npt View Post
Wife has some issues...she's trying to figure out why I'm so happy now and she's feeling a little badly that after 27 years she was not able to be everything and more to keep me totally happy and fulfilled all by herself.
I think there is a powerful false myth afoot in our culture which says that one person ought to be able, in every case, to provide for all of our loving intimacy needs for a whole lifetime. There are numerous other associated false myths which make polyamory challenging for all of us. One of these is that really deep and satisfying loving intimacy must include sexual expression. My way of thinking is "Why not?" -- which is to say, "Why should it not?", if that's what all involved are open to, okay with. And all involved are willing to "dance" with the challenges involved. "Dancing" with these challenges provides all of us polyamorists with plenty of opportunity to explore what love and intimacy are about--for us. What's wrong with that? Nothing! Love is made possible because of empathy; without empathy, there can be no loving. So it is important for all of us who are choosing an approach to loving which is different from the conventional mode to accept our responsibility to keep openning up in empathy with all with whom we are involved in loving relationship. That means, as I see it, that your wife could benefit all involved, including herself, by exploring empathetically why it is that you're happier now than previously--if such is the case. Ideally, she'd be able to see through any jealousies or fears generated in this arrangement. But it is also incumbent upon you, in your gift of love to her, that you empathize with her challenge in seeing you so happy. She may react with a feeling-thought of "aren't/weren't I good enough?". Let her know that she is and has been more than good enough, and that the additional love only allows you to know more of your capacity for loving, etc. Etc., meaning also your capacity to meet challenges and explore your own depths, etc.

Avoid framing it all in a "lack story" or "lack drama". What's wrong with being even more fulfilled, more blessed, more joyous, and having more love from more people? Nothing! Have a bun dance. What's wrong with that? Nothing! More love is always a good thing.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark1npt View Post
My (our) best friend is still trying to figure out how she fits in, feels alone sleeping by herself most nights, even if I make love to her and sleep with her part of the night before going back downstairs to the master bedroom and wife so that I can get up on time and off to work in the AM.......she says she can live with 1/2 of me as that's better than all of any man she's ever had, but she still struggles......we are trying to communicate our needs and wants but obviously there are some gaps, struggles, etc......

My first thought is to change the "to" to "with" in the making love. I'm a little petty about word choices, sometimes, but I'm not sure the difference is petty in this case. Never make love "to" anyone! Always make love "with" instead. Nobody with self-love wants to be made love "to". Everyone with self-love who enjoys love-making finds making love "with" much better than "to". But enough nit picking.

My advice is to empathize, again. Open even more to both of these women in empathy and in kindness, warmth. You've accepted the challenge, and that's what the challenge amounts to. They both want your love, and your challenge is to give it fully to both -- which means both need your empathy.

Because you all are good friends, I have complete faith in all of you to meet your challenges. Stay open; love more. Give all you gots!
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  #19  
Old 05-12-2009, 02:20 AM
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"this should be the most fulfilling situation in the world for each of us"

The important thing here, I believe, is that you accept that what you feel "should be" is not necessarily what other people want or can even understand. This statement is from your perspective.

Have you thought about why it should be the most fulfilling situation? What would be the difference between living in a loving relationship with your wife and friend without the aspects that make it polyamorous between all three of you?

What is in it for each individual? You, your wife and your other lover. You can even go as far as to write it down individually and then compare..see how close they are. Just a thought.

Take care
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  #20  
Old 05-12-2009, 03:40 AM
Mark1npt Mark1npt is offline
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I really appreciate the input and varied views guys, ty........you have both made me stop and think, and realize from a different angle or two, all that is going on in this arrangement......what a view, different sets of experienced eyes are able to see......and make me see, glass half empty or half full?......like "making love to"...... d'oh! of course!!!!

It makes sense to me now. In the past 10-15 years as work and family pressures/medical worries crept into our lives, I always felt that I was more making love "to her"...right or wrong, that she had become almost entirely passive in the lovemaking process......but it was and is still great with her and I don't want that to end! Our love life meets certain inate needs for both of us, that's for sure. She has been incredibly understanding to take on this relationship so far into our own marriage.

I am a health care provider and it's in my wiring to give......I can't be any other way....on the other hand our 3rd, our best friend is very active in the lovemaking process and it feels as though it is different in that it's more "making love with" her.....because her wants and needs after coming out of her own failed long term marriage were very different....... and very fulfilling to me, to be able to participate in/provide. Not that it's "better" than with my wife, more like "complimentary" and really rounding out my inner soul, if that makes sense. It is also fantastic and meets other needs I seem to crave/have. I am so lucky to have the love of both of these fantastic women.

I need to make sure I can continue to meet all their needs and be the person/man they both need me to be.....I really can't afford to mess this up. And yes, above all the sex and lovemaking.....the comaraderie and freindship we 3 share on a daily basis is very gratifying on many levels. That's living life LARGE.....and it's great!
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