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  #51  
Old 04-12-2010, 07:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MonoVCPHG View Post
Here's a link to a thread where people gave some ideas of what benefits that poly has to offer. My thoughts as a card carrying, sword wielding mono are in there as well Redpepper had to remind me of some things this morning so I went back and re-read my own thoughts.

http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showt...light=benefits

When it comes right down to it, some situations will work and some will not. Mono or poly has nothing to do with it. Expectations are everything in a relationship. They will determine if it can be healthy or unhealthy, if it is based on someone adding to your life or carrying you through it, if you are walking with someone or being pushed in front of them or dragging them back.

Sometimes we have to stop hiding behind the guise of protecting those we love and admit that we can't handle being with the ones we love. We need to accept that we can love someone and not be able to be with them in all the ways we want.

Some of us need to experience more before locking into a certain way of living. That is the beauty of time and, strike me down for saying, A-G-E.

Knowing that we can take care of ourselves is the most powerful lesson in life. The second most powerful lesson is knowing that others can do this as well.

No more sugar coating...here's my advice. Take a break from your mairrage. Do it in a mature manner. Sit down and discuss going on a journey with your wife only this time you won't be doing it together. Explore a relationship with a monogamous partner and see what that generates for you. You and your wife need to stand on your own two feet. She may find the freedom invigorating and you may find the stability and sense of sexual commitment much more comfortable and healthy. Of course you both may find out that life apart is unfulfilling and return to each other...but you'll do it with more experience and that will make the difference.

Both of you need to hoist your sails and see where the wind will take you.
The wind took me to the waters of a mono poly relationship with an incredible woman. But it also let me linger in a huge and very fulfilling monogamous ocean for a long time. There is turbulence and waves in both but there is happiness and health in both as well. Some boats sail better in one or the other while other boats can ride the waves where they meet comfortably. Maybe you are both dropping your anchors a bit too soon....maybe you've forgotten that there are really two boats.

Take care..and this is all just my humble opinion
Where is is thumbs up smilie?? I agree with you Mono 100% , I think a lot of times we look at it like there is just one boat!
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  #52  
Old 04-12-2010, 07:41 PM
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Where is is thumbs up smilie?? I agree with you Mono 100% , I think a lot of times we look at it like there is just one boat!
Thanks Tinylove.
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  #53  
Old 04-12-2010, 08:17 PM
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SS- we walk hand in hand with partners through life if we want it to work for each others mutual benefit. At least in my experience. Your wife, emotional and vulnerable as she is, is on her own path. It sounds like she has asked you to step back and allow her the space to be so. Perhaps you should be thinking of your own path instead of hers. What are you going to do with your life?

Have you read anything I wrote last week about common goals? About being a guest in others lives and also hosting them in yours. It was a big theme for me last week and it might be helpful to go back and read. There is an uncomfortablness in your posts that makes me wonder if you are experiencing control issues. Just a thought and very human, but maybe worth looking at in yourself. If you are feeling depressed then maybe that is the root of it?
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  #54  
Old 04-12-2010, 08:32 PM
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While that is solid advice, and I appreciate its validity, My wife has nobody else to turn to right now to offer her support -- her friends all chose the side of the guy who hurt her, and she's alone in the place she loves most.

As for feasibility, I can't just drop her like that, especially not with the pair of us shelling out about $2000 ($950 security deposit, $950 first-month rent, and $150 application fee) in advance for a new apartment in the city, for which our move-in date is 15 April. Neither one of us will be able to make it on our own at this point. Rather, she won't. I make enough that I could comfortably live on my own anywhere in the Chicago suburbs, but she barely makes any money at all, let alone enough to afford rent anyplace on her own.

We're moving into the city so her commute to school and work disappears, and while mine's getting longer, altogether our transit expenses are being reduced significantly. While we're not living on a shoestring budget, we're not exactly rolling in dough either. Separation at this point is just not an option. I would be screwing her over so badly, and adding so much unnecessary pain on top of the pain she's already in, that any chance of us ever getting back together would be completely destroyed.

If it's possible to take a break within the same household, then maybe that could work, but I don't see what good living together but pretending not to be married would do.

And while I understand what you said about control issues, perhaps I do have them, but in inverse. I fear, more than anything, being controlling in a relationship. Growing up, I watched so many relationships fall apart because of lack of intimacy, lack of respect, lack of communication, and control/abuse. I strive in every waking moment to make sure that my wife makes her own decisions and isn't just looking to me for guidance. I strive to keep her acting of her own free will and not waiting for me to tell her what to do. Especially because of things past. Things in her life, not mine.

So maybe you're all right and I'm making the wrong choice, but I choose to stay and ride this out. Because I love her. Because it's what's right. Because it's what FEELS right. She and I just need some more time. This situation got too big, too fast, and once it's all calmed down again, and we're all in our right minds, everything will be okay.

Thanks.

And the reasons I'm feeling depressed number in the many. Let's list a few:

- My wife's heart has been broken. Three times. In the last two weeks. By the same guy.
- My sex life has been at full stop for two weeks tomorrow.
- My wife has been abandoned by the people we both counted on most to help her get through this.
- I'm being told that I should leave my wife.
- I feel like there's nothing I can do to help build up my wife's self-confidence or anything, especially after having spent the last year doing just that, only to have her crushed by the very friends I encouraged her to make.
- I have no friends I can easily run to in real-life for any kind of support (though I'm working on that).
- I didn't get to spend enough time with my wife before (mismatched schedules), and I get to spend even less with her now, because she's withdrawn to some degree for most of the time that's left.

So pardon me if I'm a little stressed, but my wife is beyond the level of stress any human being can handle under normal circumstances. While I have the capability to just say "fuck it" when I'm this stressed and just chill out for a bit, I can't right now, because I need to focus. And she can't. I've tried teaching her how, but right now, she can't.

I'm not dealing with very many internal issues right now, they can all safely take a break. Everything on my mind right now has to do with how my wife has been wronged, and I have been wronged by proxy, and how right now it feels like there's no hope, and I'm trying to do whatever I can to help my wife feel better. There's no end in sight, because she gets to spend the rest of the quarter in classes with the friends who hurt her. Oh, and she has Lupus. Her emotional pain and stress levels are directly contributing to her physical deterioration. I didn't mention that, because it has no bearing on anything, but at this point, it's not even a question of emotional energy being left for dealing with anything, it's physical energy, too.

Basically, I'm fucked up a tree, trying to help support my wife through her turmoil, having found something similar to peace on which I can stand, and everything else is falling apart. Add to that people telling me I should leave her, right in the middle of the biggest emotional and physical crisis I've ever directly witnessed.

I am still exploring myself, and I am still leaning towards becoming poly myself, and I'm still growing and learning, but right now, those aren't the issues here. The main issue is the fact that my wife's life has fallen apart around her, and I need to help her. If I can't stand by her in her most desperate time of need, I wouldn't even make a good mono, talking big about devotion and exclusivity and shit. Fuck this shit. I'll take a break from these forums and come back when this shit is over.

Yes, I know this is all off-topic, but this thread is already out past the moon in terms of on-topic. Why not take it farther, eh?

I should add:

Thank you all for your support and advice thus far, but after this, I think I'm done for a while. Thank you.

Last edited by SimpleSimian; 04-12-2010 at 09:20 PM.
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  #55  
Old 04-12-2010, 09:26 PM
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Well, I'm not a big advocate of just leaving people really, but sometimes its necessary. I think Mono is just trying to protect your mono heart. He can relate to your pain I think. I'm speaking for him here and really shouldn't. I will leave it to him to explain his thoughts. It does sound like a break from the drama is a good idea. If you are moving and facing friend issues too.

There will be a lot of adjusting to do my friend. There is lots of time and a lot to talk about. Talking about some common goals is a good first step. Then talking about uncommon goals to work on alone. But now doesn't seem to be the moment.
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  #56  
Old 04-12-2010, 10:07 PM
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Mono just reminded me of some friends of ours that found themselves in a similar situation. They opened their marriage after being married since they were 18. They are now in their 30's with two kids. She found several men and he found one woman, the partner of one of the men. It ended in a lot of stress and pain for both of them. The drama was major on her end and everyone was heart broken. They decided it just wasn't worth it. They came to this after a long process and finally realizing it wasn't worth it. Not to say that that is will be what happens here but the point more was that they allowed each other time and space to go on their own path with it. He was in a lot of pain over his wife's decisions and still stuck by her, until she had figured out for herself it wasn't worth it.
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  #57  
Old 04-13-2010, 12:38 AM
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Hey, all. Sorry I'm joining this conversation so late!

I want to weigh in on an earlier post of SimpleSimian's-- it reminds me so much of pre-poly me, which is a strange feeling.

Quote:
I think what I mean is that I'm poly. By nature, at least.

I have two kinds of friends: ones I love and ones I like.

The friends I love I love with all my heart. I trust them with my soul, and I know they trust me with theirs. I will forgive the majority of trespasses and hope that they will help me through my screw-ups as well. These are friends, to me.

Friends I like are kinda casual friends. I don't spend much time with them, and I don't trust them with my soul. These are more like acquaintances. People I'm nice to. People who I like.
That's exactly the way I explained myself before I found out about poly. My problem was that my sex drive didn't turn off around friends just because I was in a monogamous relationship. Usually, I'd wind up leaving my boyfriend for someone new because I figured my interest in someone else meant that I wasn't interested in my boyfriend anymore.... Then I found poly and felt so much better.

Quote:
Part of the reason I never try to start up sexual romantic relationships with some of the friends whom I love is because I cannot give them the amount of attention they would desire and deserve, so there's no point in trying, as it would only end up hurting my loves, including my primary love, and including myself. It would only result in pain and compromise all around. One person is too much already, and the fact that I manage to pull it off and leave the two of us feeling fulfilled (in a mono relationship) is part of what keeps me going.

Also, if I opened myself up to loving more than one person romantically, then I couldn't say things like "you're the special-est (not a doctor)" or "you're the best in the world," because that would be showing a preference for one over the other...and I kind of like saying things like that, and I know my wife loves hearing them. I'm pretty sure if she heard me say them to somebody else and mean it, she would be hurt.

So anyway, that's me. That's the reasoning behind my reasoning.
Regarding the first paragraph: one of the potential joys of poly is that you aren't expected to give someone all of the attention they deserve by yourself. They can have other partners and have their needs met by all of you. Just food for thought.

Also, I jokingly tell both my life partners that they're "my favorite this week" when they do something sweet for me! @Jools, it was me who mentioned I Love You the Purplest by Barbara Joose. (Jools? Joose? Crazy coincidence, that...) I make a point to acknowledge how everyone in my constellation of loves is special and unique. It's like teaching-- you make sure every one of your kids knows that there's something special in them, and that you see it.

Quote:
A loophole for me, that seems to keep me from feeling stretched and/or hurt by my own sexual actions is groupsex with multiple people I love.
I'll probably get berated for it at some point on here, but group sex is actually one of my favorite things in the whole world. I find it nourishing like NOTHING else. If you're not embarrassed about it, I won't be either!

Quote:
But for some reason, if/when I try having sex with somebody else I love, and I'm alone with just that person, I get wrapped up in a self-destructive loop of guilt afterwards, so I just don't do it. I worry that my primary will be hurt by it, no matter what she may say, because I don't trust words. Words are easy to manipulate to hide feelings.
It might, might, might be that if you grew comfortable in a poly relationship and were convinced that your primary was fine, you'd be more comfortable expressing your love for others in a sexual way. I'm not saying you should try it right now, especially given how much else is going on, but I wouldn't write it off completely either.



With all that said, BB, i want to respond to your most recent post:

Quote:
I am still exploring myself, and I am still leaning towards becoming poly myself, and I'm still growing and learning, but right now, those aren't the issues here. The main issue is the fact that my wife's life has fallen apart around her, and I need to help her. If I can't stand by her in her most desperate time of need, I wouldn't even make a good mono, talking big about devotion and exclusivity and shit. Fuck this shit. I'll take a break from these forums and come back when this shit is over.
Fair enough. I'm sorry that this thread hasn't helped you, and I hope you'll feel ready to come back soon. If you felt up for it, I'd encourage you to head over to the thread on improving this forum and give some feedback. People feeling frustrated enough to walk away are the people we most need to weigh in over there.

Thanks so much for being brave enough to share. I hope you come back on soon-- we'll be here.

In cahoots,
~S
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Last edited by saudade; 04-15-2010 at 05:17 PM. Reason: typos! :/
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  #58  
Old 02-18-2011, 01:42 AM
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The original question here is an interesting one... one I have given thought to over the last years as it seems that it is expected that poly people be able to flourish whereas mono people should leave their perspective behind. I wonder what it is that makes this so? Still pondering ...
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Old 02-18-2011, 04:43 AM
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I just read through this thread. Thanks for bumping it up.

I think it's the case here that the simple truth has a measure of pain in it that is sometimes very deep:

People change

When they do or discover a greater truth about themselves it can have the effect of turning over their life. Giving up my religion had as much pain in my close relationships as becoming poly has had. Both stemming from a core values conflict that made previous levels of intimacy very difficult.

Instead of "who must change?" the better question might be "can you find a common path to happiness, health and life satisfaction?"

The painful reality is that the answer to this question is often "No." And, if it's the result of a a core values conflict, it's nobody's fault. Poly-mono is just one of many dimensions that a couple can fail this important test. Religion is often another dimension (but often times not). No one should be expected to change if it is an issue of core values.

I would expect, however, that both sides be willing to explore whether or not it is truly a core values issue or other, less central, issues (e.g., perceived loss of status).

As with many things, it's often more important to ask the right question than it is to have the desired answer (or any answer for that matter).
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  #60  
Old 02-18-2011, 08:34 AM
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I just want to jump in here with a question - I may or may not have asked it before - or somebody else might have - either way I can't find it or the answer on here at the moment...

I need help here to understand something...

From my perspective...

A poly person feels the need/is able to express romantic love to more than one person at a time, in their own way - whether that be physically/emotionally or both...

A mono person feels the need to have and express intimate love to only one person at a time.... BUT

is not the difference that a mono person seems to require that the person they are intimately involved with be exclusive to them - i.e also be mono, whereas for a poly person orientation and/or exclusivity from the other person is not essential?? So the difference to me as expressed here is that a poly person asks for nothing but the ability to be themselves freely, without reproach... whereas the mono person requires their partner to be exclusively devoted to them??

a poly asks nothing** of their partner but that they be themselves... a mono asks for particular behaviour in return as well as that the partner be themselves (even though that behaviour may restrict the poly person from being themself fully)???

**assuming that things like mutual love and respect etc are assumed for the purpose of this question**

very badly expressed I know - but I think i got my point and question across - please feel free to tear it to shreds
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