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  #11  
Old 04-03-2010, 10:53 PM
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Originally Posted by LovingRadiance View Post
So anyway-it's becoming evident to me (and Maca) that the role GG is CHOOSING to take is strictly secondary. It hurts. I've already decided that if that's all he wants-that's what it needs to be and changes have started being put in place, but it's not easy to accept...

...He hasn't become LESS than he was before. But because I thought we both wanted him to be more-I moved forward and well.... he didn't.
THAT hurts enough that its undermining my trust in him.
LR, I'm really empathizing with you right now. Tech and I have only been together a little over three years but I feel as you've said as well.

I also think that, after saying Kitten and I are the same to him and he encouraging me to make some changes when I admitted to feeling the same about him, that he has chosen to step back. He isn't willing to make the same efforts I did to get to the place we had set a goal for. These are actual issues that I've told him I need a response from him on. And truthfully his answers may decide exactly what I do. If a secondary was all he could be to me, he should not have encourage me in making it more. I would have loved him still, but definitely done some things differently.

In regards to your health issues (I'm so sorry btw), I know that Gator and Tech have very different ideas and abilities when it comes to that. Gator is definitely a more nurturing person. Maybe I should say more "openly" nurturing. I had major issues with my blood pressure this past weekend (which postponed our talks) and both of them were there. I've learned to see the things that Tech does that are very subtle. And on this, Gator and Tech seemed to be working together in who was there.

I wouldn't imagine this to be the case for you guys since you've been in each other's lives so long but...it still could be true that GG feels Maca should have the first opportunity to be there for you. I mean, if I understand correctly, Maca is still working through some issues. Ask GG flat out. It's a bit scary, I know. You may not get the answer you would like. I'm prepared for that myself.

I hope you are on the mend soon. About 9 months ago, Gator had some major surgery and had some of the same restrictions you have. He got down or depressed. It's hard to be curtailed when you aren't used to that. But because you are depressed, I would like to suggest you not make a major decision at this time. Hear things GG has to say but think on them for a long enough time that you'll be able to discern if your reaction is clouded by depression or not.
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  #12  
Old 04-04-2010, 03:44 AM
Ariakas Ariakas is offline
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All I can pass along is a hug LR. Reading your response(s) I can see you are in pain. I hope it all works out. I would play devils advocate, as I tend to do, but in all honesty you don't need that ...I wish you the best with your healing and I really hope GG figures out what...well figures stuff out.
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  #13  
Old 04-04-2010, 06:15 AM
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Thank you for all your support. LR really is hurting right now in many ways.

LR and I had a talk. Well, first we took a drive w/ Maca and kiddies and started a talk. Later LR took a walk and I tagged along because I wanted to try and understand and resolve this issue we're having.

It didn't end pretty. And I have no idea at this point what the plan is for Easter.

Some of you are right in thinking that I've been trying to allow for Maca to be there for LR. But, being in this poly relationship, I need to realize that I am just as important to LR as Maca is.

I have this real issue with worrying that I'll step on his toes. All the years they've been together, I've been the only one that supported them in their marriage all the time. Never once did I ever try to manipulate my way into a relationship with LR, never once did I try to make Maca leave, never once did I try to replace him. But I did wrong him in having an affair w/ LR. And because of that, and through all the years between then and last year when we decided to go poly, I constantly try not to make it seem that I'm pushing him out of the way, or away, or stepping on his toes.
But because I do that, it makes them both feel like I'm not giving my all. Not being 100%.

Maca gets frustrated with me bacause I don't "act" like a boyfriend. And I argue with him saying that It's difficult to be a boyfriend of someone who has a husband. And it became obvious to me that we view this differently (among many other things)...

...Finally today, LR asks me what I think the difference is between a "best friend" and a "significant other". And I never really even thought of compareing the two that way. Reason being, they are one in the same to me. Only S/O's have a romantic part of their relationship.

For years, I've claimed LR as my best friend, and I am hers. But now that we are BF/GF, there's this...expectation that I never understood, and partly still don't. I realized tonight that this is what Maca has been talking about all along. He told me a while ago that we (LR/ I) can't be "friends" anymore. It's different now. But I don't know how to have a loving relationship with someone who isn't my best friend.

I've had girlfriends in the past that were not my best friends, and I likened that to be one of the reasons it never worked out with them.

My grandparents went through many trials during their marriage, but they were always best friends. They had good friends of their own, but THEY were each other's best friends. and that is how I've always thought of a great marriage/ relationship should be. So in my mind, I didn't understand why that had to change now that LR/ I were "together".

Tonoght I was making comparisons to my other best friend Getsueh. What is the difference between my relationship with LR and my relationship with Getsueh? And other than the romantic end of it, and the fact that LR/ I are in love with each other, and Getsueh and I are NOT, though we do HAVE love for each other, there isn't any difference. Not to me.

I would die for both of them. I trust both of them. I do what I can for both of them. I'm friends with both of them. I support both of them. I give my time to both of them. They in turn have done so for me. But she is the one I care more deeply for. If they were hanging over a cliff and I had to let one of them fall, it would be Getsueh because I'm not in love with him. (And I know he'd expect me to do that)...

... LR says that there are certian "responsibilities" that a significant other takes on that a best friend doesn't. But she wouldn't tell me what any of those are, because I don't see it that way. She doesn't want to influence me to do anything that I don't think is important enough to think of myself. I can understand that.

I know that she's going through a hell of a time during her recovery. And she also knows that I am willing to be here for her 24/7 if she needs me to be. And it's not that, I want to go to my friends house so I don't have to be here for her, nor is it that I WANT to get away. (BTW, I haven't decided to go visit my friend again, I wanted to talk about it this weekend, but then other things came up).

I just have other people that I care about that I want to visit sometimes. I'm not gone for more than a day when I do.

Maybe she wants to know that I prioritize her more than my other best friend. I already feel that I do. I'm committed to this family. I stand up for this family and this relationship. I've written off members of my own blood relations, as Maca has, in order to preserve this family. But Getsueh is important to me too.

So, now I'm lost in trying to figure out what the "responsibilities" are of a S/O versus a best friend.

I love her SO MUCH. And this is killing me! I would do ANYTHING to make her happy. But what she wants is for me to deside what that is, because if she tells me, then it means nothing when I do it.

I commend Maca for bweing at her side through this time. I'm SO glad their relationship has flourished into that.

But I've been trying to be here too. I took her in my work truck (forbidden) to get her hair washed the other day. I make her breakfast in the morning (when Maca isn't home). I WAS coming out to the living room to hold her hand when MAca was waking me up as he was leaving for work in the morning, but now he doesn't do that, and he's been leaving at different times. I've been going in to work later so that I can drive her to her appointments, or be here for her until someone else comes home. I've been dealing with the kids too, same as I always do. And just a couple days ago, I was cuddled up with her in her chair and I told her how beautiful she was, and she responded by saying that she believes it when I say it because she knows I mean it and I'm not just saying it to be nice. But I wonder if, because she's depressed (as one of you pointed out) she might not be realizing that I'm here too.

I didn't know she was having this issue with me until yesterday. I thought it was because of her medication, and her frustration at being restricted. I've tried talking to her and I had no idea that there was this hidden issue.

I guess I need to try and read in here more often than I do.

If anyone out there has any advise... I'm all ears.

Thanks for listening.

~GG
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Last edited by NeonKaos; 04-04-2010 at 11:42 AM. Reason: merge posts
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  #14  
Old 04-04-2010, 04:03 PM
Ariakas Ariakas is offline
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Originally Posted by GreenGecko View Post
Maca gets frustrated with me bacause I don't "act" like a boyfriend. And I argue with him saying that It's difficult to be a boyfriend of someone who has a husband. And it became obvious to me that we view this differently (among many other things)...

...Finally today, LR asks me what I think the difference is between a "best friend" and a "significant other". And I never really even thought of compareing the two that way. Reason being, they are one in the same to me. Only S/O's have a romantic part of their relationship.

For years, I've claimed LR as my best friend, and I am hers. But now that we are BF/GF, there's this...expectation that I never understood, and partly still don't. I realized tonight that this is what Maca has been talking about all along. He told me a while ago that we (LR/ I) can't be "friends" anymore. It's different now. But I don't know how to have a loving relationship with someone who isn't my best friend.

My grandparents went through many trials during their marriage, but they were always best friends. They had good friends of their own, but THEY were each other's best friends. and that is how I've always thought of a great marriage/ relationship should be. So in my mind, I didn't understand why that had to change now that LR/ I were "together".
Just curious, could you have slightly misinterpreted what was said. I have never known anyone to say their loves are not best friends. However, if you were best friends and moved to lovers the dynamic changes, you can never JUST be a best friend again.

For example, my wife is my best friend...my wife is my lover. I have responsibilities to both of those dynamics that are very fluid.

Hope that made sense.


Quote:
... LR says that there are certian "responsibilities" that a significant other takes on that a best friend doesn't. But she wouldn't tell me what any of those are, because I don't see it that way. She doesn't want to influence me to do anything that I don't think is important enough to think of myself. I can understand that.
Wow...ya, I can't verbalize the difference either. Sorry I can't even really "tell" the difference, but I can compare how I am with my best friend A and my ex-lover and best friend E. The differences are small but important. I will have to think about this to figure out what the difference is...

cheers
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  #15  
Old 04-04-2010, 05:01 PM
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LR and I did discuss that a best friend can be a significant other, like a sibling can also be a best friend, but they are also your sibling and have a different level of responsibility in your relationship that a best friend alone doesn't. I understand her point, but I don't feel the same way. To me, my best friends take presadent over my sibs because our relationship is closer. My best friends know me better than my sibs.
But does a S/O know someone better than a best friend?

In the last couple years, Maca has grown to know other things about LR that I don't. (choice) But for years before that, I knew her more, I understood her better, I was able to care for her in ways he could not (in some ways that is still the same), but only until we came out as poly was I ever her S/O.

To me it seemed that choosing to come out as a poly family meant that not noly were we all accepting each other and caring for each other in this relationship, but that now it was okay for LR/I to have the type of relationship we had been having behind closed doors. To me, nothing changed. I still loved Maca as I had prior, still felt about the kids as I always had, still loved LR as much and as deep as I always had. It was a change for Maca and his way of thinking, but for me, the biggest change was to be willing to open myself up to Maca where before I could not. And to participate in the same type of relationship w/ LR, where before I could not, at least not with his acceptance.

True love knows no bounds, I believe that fully. True love needs no promises either, although we still make them.

LR feels like she's losing her best friend, and I don't understand how or why she feels that way. I think there must have been this expectation that I didn't understand once we decided we were going to offically be BF/GF. I don't understand what I need to do or how I need to be that's different than I've ever been in our relationship, except stand up for what we've decided to be.

Thanks everyone, Happy Easter!
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  #16  
Old 04-04-2010, 05:28 PM
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A best friend can become a significant other, they don't stop being your best friend, but there ARE additional responsibilities and they are NOT any longer on the same level as other best friends.

Ariakas, Ourquad, Thank you.
I read your responses to my last post last night. Tears ran down my face, I felt the hugs-I thought Whistler was a little further away Ariakas, you must have really strong arms! I felt a shift in the weight of my heartache Ourquad as though even though it's still my heartache, I'm not alone in the emotion and that made it just a bit easier to carry the load.

I do love GG. I know he does love me. But there are intricacies about how one prioritizes their responsibilities that he and I clearly do not see eye to eye on.
I truly honestly believe that DUE to the way he chooses to react to anything I say-I can't explain it to him. It would be irresponsible and manipulative of me to do so.

It is IMPOSSIBLE to have a primary relationship with someone who feels that the level of RESPONSIBILITY between them and you is the same as their level of responsibility between them and their other best friends.

It is possible to have multiple relationships, but it's not possible to have SIGNIFICANT OTHERS AS PRIMARIES -imho.

I'm going to church. Wish me well.
A + O thank you again.
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  #17  
Old 04-04-2010, 05:36 PM
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GG I totally get what you are saying about "stepping on toes". You are not alone there my friend
About being best friends - this is a sore spot for me. I feel I can talk to Redpepper about anything and that is a part of being best friends I believe. I consider her my best friend. We do, however have some topics that we don't discuss about other things happening in her life. Much of this is related to my being "monogamous" and not being able to listen objectively to things that in a mono relationship would potentially make the world crumble LOL! So I don't truly feel like her best friend a lot of times. Our openess is lopsided. luckily she has others in her life better suited to handle some discussions There's a poly benefit!
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Old 04-04-2010, 07:23 PM
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Some of you are right in thinking that I've been trying to allow for Maca to be there for LR. But, being in this poly relationship, I need to realize that I am just as important to LR as Maca is.
Sept 25th LR gave me a choice to make. She elevated your position in her life to the statues of mine.She put our marriage up against her relationship with you and you still dont realize your importance to her?I have to tell you, that makes me feel very unimportant. I completely changed my world around, LR stuck her neck out for you, ( I know it was for her also, she needed to get back to being true to herself) we both started taking steps to find ways to make this work. You just stood back and reaped the benefits.

Quote:
I have this real issue with worrying that I'll step on his toes. All the years they've been together, I've been the only one that supported them in their marriage all the time. Never once did I ever try to manipulate my way into a relationship with LR, never once did I try to make Maca leave, never once did I try to replace him. But I did wrong him in having an affair w/ LR. And because of that, and through all the years between then and last year when we decided to go poly, I constantly try not to make it seem that I'm pushing him out of the way, or away, or stepping on his toes.

As I told you GG my relationship with LR is mine alone. Im the only one that can affect the direction and speed that MY relationship with her goes. I communicate with her and WE compromise about the issues that WE face together. You seem to think that you have the abality to make LR or me do somthing different by yourself. No one can MAKE anyone do somthing that they dont want to do.

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Maca gets frustrated with me bacause I don't "act" like a boyfriend. And I argue with him saying that It's difficult to be a boyfriend of someone who has a husband. And it became obvious to me that we view this differently (among many other things)...
You told me yesterday that you think that if you DO more physical things with LR ( to show your commitment to her) then you would feel as though you were stepping on my toes. I lost it and started shaking my head , you dont get it, its not a doing of things that you are missing its a feeling that you are missing. You are good at the language of love, you write all the right words and sometimes you even say the right things but you dont live and breath it.

Quote:
...Finally today, LR asks me what I think the difference is between a "best friend" and a "significant other". And I never really even thought of compareing the two that way. Reason being, they are one in the same to me. Only S/O's have a romantic part of their relationship.

For years, I've claimed LR as my best friend, and I am hers. But now that we are BF/GF, there's this...expectation that I never understood, and partly still don't. I realized tonight that this is what Maca has been talking about all along. He told me a while ago that we (LR/ I) can't be "friends" anymore. It's different now. But I don't know how to have a loving relationship with someone who isn't my best friend.
What I told you was that things are and will be different.Being "just friends" or even being "just best friends" is not the same as being a SO. As I told you yesterday you two are better at being friends then you are at being more then that. Thats not to say that things cant change, but thats where I see things at the moment.


Quote:
What is the difference between my relationship with LR and my relationship with Getsueh? And other than the romantic end of it, and the fact that LR/ I are in love with each other, and Getsueh and I are NOT, though we do HAVE love for each other, there isn't any difference. Not to me.
You just named two pretty dam significant differences.




Quote:
I know that she's going through a hell of a time during her recovery. And she also knows that I am willing to be here for her 24/7 if she needs me to be.
The part of this that sticks in my craw is " if she needs me to be". Its not about need. I will always be there for her , not because she "NEEDS me to" but because I want to, SHE wants me to, its my place, its where I belong, its my ... for lack of a better word... job.

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I just have other people that I care about that I want to visit sometimes. I'm not gone for more than a day when I do.
Timing is everything. If one of the kids was having surgery or was very sick you wouldnt go running off to watch a concert or go play D&D with your guys friends would you? I sure as hell wouldnt. They are more important to me then my own fun is. Same thing goes for my SO.


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Last edited by maca; 04-04-2010 at 07:27 PM.
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  #19  
Old 04-04-2010, 09:22 PM
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You're right on that last part, Maca. I did want to go to the concert. And I also felt a "responsibility" to go (if you will) because the ticket was a non refundable gift.

Were it a day or two after the surgery, I wouldn't have gone. BUT, the same mentality I had for why I stayed home the first surgery, was a justification of why I thought it okay to go to the concert.

I understand a little more about my level of commitment to LR, and you as well. I should have stayed because it was the "right thing to do". Because even if she was fine enough FOR me to not have ot be here, and YOU were here with her to take care of her, I should have been here for at the very least, support.

I should stay because I love her and I know it would make her happy if I did.

Same as going over there next week. Until I know that she's okay with me being away, I need to hold her feelings and needs over that of the others.

Getsueh is a true friend, and he will understand if I tell him "not right now".

But I cannot escape the feeling of... I don't know that guilt is the right word... Disappointing him, maybe, but cancelling out.

There's a big issue with what I do being misconstrued as something that LR is "making" me do, and even if I say "hey, I'm doing this because I love her and when I feel it's okay, I'll let you know." I'm worried they'll still think it's her making the decision. But I guess there's not much I can do about that, what they think. I know that Getsueh will understand, and he being my other best friend, that's the one I need to concern myself about who's feelings I hurt.

BUT, because I have a commitent to LR, I MUST prioritize her needs first.

I know we differ on things, Maca, but I do value your thoughts and input.
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Old 04-04-2010, 10:03 PM
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Hey GG,Maca and LR !

GG:- I think Maca did a great job of an example of how that difference between best friend and SO can play out. I was struggling to find the right words for what is a subtle but critical difference.

It's really all in our mind and heart. When our love & concern for someone becomes deep enough they just "become" a priority. We no longer even think about it or analyze it. We just act - based on that inner instinct and connection of what is needed. What's the best that we can do.

It definitely IS a different way of thinking & living. The examples Maca used were great. If you think about what your reaction would be if it was your child (in some cases) then you know how to act - without even thinking. There really are no options.

So although I agree (and speak similarly often) that a deep, best, friendship contains MOST of the qualities that make for a successful love relationship and kind of form a minimum specification, there still remains that small, subtle and critical difference.

In your comparison and discussion about what anyone "else" might think, say or do regarding your choice of when and how to act, that is maybe where you can zone in on this difference and understand it.

When it comes to those we love - thoughts of others simply don't enter the thought process at all - let alone any discussion. We simply don't care ! We know what we NEED to do - and we just do it. Nothing else matters.

Maybe this is a breakthrough ? I see the seeds........

GS
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