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  #101  
Old 04-13-2010, 12:21 AM
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I have many thoughts on Friday evening but Im going to check myself ( unlike Friday).
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  #102  
Old 04-13-2010, 02:05 AM
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ourquad-
I don't think you are weird at all (at least not in that aspect!) I happen to agree wholeheartedly.
GG is notorious for not talking-even when he should.
In fact that is sort of how this whole thread got started because I just really need him to be willing and able to be protective of me when it's necessary (which isn't often).

I don't know where things are going to from here.

Maca came home and told me that he doesn't believe GG and that he has a hard time not hating him.
He tells me that he knows how he forgave me but he can't figure out how to do that with GG (same process and it's a choice).
I asked him what he's afraid of, he said he's afraid of being hurt. I pointed out to him that he KNOWS I will hurt him, but he isn't afraid to forgive. He stared at me.

Ultimately I told him (just before he walked out the door a few minutes ago) that I love him. I've chosen the road I'm taking and I hope that they will come with me, but either way, I'm going down this road with my life.

I also said that the one who draws the line in the sand always loses. I left a long pause before adding-
I really hope you aren't the one that draws the line.

I do love him. I love both of them. But I can't deny that sometimes I wonder how I ended up in love with two men who are SO obstinate and who flat refuse to grow up.
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  #103  
Old 04-13-2010, 02:15 AM
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Originally Posted by LovingRadiance View Post
ourquad-
I don't think you are weird at all (at least not in that aspect!) I happen to agree wholeheartedly.
Tech absolutely does not understand this about me and I just can't find a way to explain it to him that he 'gets'.


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Originally Posted by LovingRadiance View Post
I do love him. I love both of them. But I can't deny that sometimes I wonder how I ended up in love with two men who are SO obstinate and who flat refuse to grow up.
We can be lucky that way I suppose. Nothing like a stubborn man...or two.

Last edited by ourquad; 04-13-2010 at 02:17 AM.
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  #104  
Old 04-14-2010, 12:37 AM
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midnightsun midnightsun is offline
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Default Befuddled...

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Originally Posted by GreenGecko View Post
So, now I'm lost in trying to figure out what the "responsibilities" are of a S/O versus a best friend.
~GG
Ok... so LR is MY best friend in the way that "G" is your best friend. No romance involved. You don't live with him, I don't live with LR. We've never been romantically involved even tho we're both bi, our relationship isn't on that level.

But what if we decided to take it there?? (Completely hypothetical and notwithstanding the prior discussion we'd both have to have w/our SO's etc.)

What changes would YOU expect to see in the way that I am "there" for her now (and she for me) and the way I would be "there" for her (or she for me) if we became best friends AND SO's? Would you honestly expect for things to stay EXACTLY as they are right now between us, except she & I would start having sex & have dates and be more affectionate in front of others? Is "romance" really the only difference you see in a SIGNIFICANT relationship vs. a FRIEND relationship?

I can't answer the question for you either, but if you think about it from that perspective maybe it will shed light on your own relationship with her. Honestly... how do you think it would (or SHOULD) change the relationship between she & I if we were "romantically" involved vs. friends?

-MS
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  #105  
Old 04-14-2010, 01:07 AM
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Default Clarification please....?

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Originally Posted by GreenGecko View Post
For years, I've claimed LR as my best friend, and I am hers. But now that we are BF/GF, there's this...expectation that I never understood, and partly still don't.
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Originally Posted by GreenGecko View Post
I realized tonight that this is what Maca has been talking about all along. He told me a while ago that we (LR/ I) can't be "friends" anymore. It's different now. But I don't know how to have a loving relationship with someone who isn't my best friend.
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Originally Posted by GreenGecko View Post
But does a S/O know someone better than a best friend?
The last quote is the one that baffles me the most... how can you ask that question if you say you don't see a difference between the two??

Maybe I'm misinterpreting what you're saying GG, but you seem to be referring to you and LR being "best friends" as something from the past and referring to her in the "now" as being a GF/SO instead of a BF. It seems to me (and I could be wrong) that you were comfortable in the past with her being a BF that you were also romantic with, but that her becoming your GF/SO has altered your relationship with her to where you don't see her as both. You seem to see her as you saw your past GF's... because you are not TREATING her the way you used to treat her as your Best Friend.

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Originally Posted by GreenGecko View Post
True love knows no bounds, I believe that fully. True love needs no promises either, although we still make them.
Ok... so what is the difference between "true love" and "true friendship"??

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Originally Posted by GreenGecko View Post
If they were hanging over a cliff and I had to let one of them fall, it would be Getsueh because I'm not in love with him. (And I know he'd expect me to do that)...
So... that seems to be part of the answer. Your true love is the one you'd save, the one you CAN'T live without. Your true friend is the one who would understand why you'd choose your true love over him. Your true love does NOT seem to understand why you say you'd choose her over your true friend, but when she needs you... you don't.

What OTHER ways do (or should) the relationships differ?? Because it is clear that you do differentiate. You just don't seem to be comfortable with the change in status she has now that she has gone from BF to SO.
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Last edited by midnightsun; 04-14-2010 at 04:30 AM.
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  #106  
Old 04-14-2010, 01:53 AM
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Default Priorities...

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Were it a day or two after the surgery, I wouldn't have gone. BUT, the same mentality I had for why I stayed home the first surgery, was a justification of why I thought it okay to go to the concert.

Same as going over there next week. Until I know that she's okay with me being away, I need to hold her feelings and needs over that of the others.
I think that's part of the reason your friends assume LR is "making" you do (or not do) certain things. I hear you saying "until I know she's ok with me being away..." and "I need to hold her feelings and needs over that of the others..."

When you talk about NOT seeing your friends, the feelings YOU convey are "guilt" and "fear of disappointing them." So, I can imagine why they get the impression that you're putting her feelings, her needs, whether she is ok w/you being gone or not over YOUR OWN feelings.

At no point do I hear you saying, "I WANT to be with LR right now and I need to be with her until I'm sure she's ok and if THEY can't understand MY feelings then they aren't TRUE FRIENDS. Because she's my TRUE LOVE/SO/GF and NO ONE in their right mind would leave their TRUE LOVE to play games or go to concerts with friends until THEY are 100% convinced that their TRUE LOVE is truly ok."

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Originally Posted by GreenGecko View Post
Getsueh is a true friend, and he will understand if I tell him "not right now".[/U][/B]
Ok, but WHAT is he understanding? Is he understanding that she is your priority and you WANT to be with her right now, or is he understanding that you're trying to "make her happy" by telling him no out of consideration for her feelings rather than doing it because it's what you want to do and think is right to do.

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Originally Posted by GreenGecko View Post
BUT, because I have a commitent to LR, I MUST prioritize her needs first.
Sort of... because you CHOOSE to prioritize your commitment to LR YOU should have a NEED to be there when she's struggling. I didn't go to the hospital for the 1st surgery because I thought she needed me to... I went there because I care about her and I needed to make sure she was ok. I went because I wanted to be there, not because I thought she wanted me there, or because I thought it would "make her happy." It wasn't about that, and I'm at a loss to explain the difference.

Every time my mom has surgery she tells me, "You don't have to stay in the hospital with me." I know she'll have nurses that have way more training than I do and are perfectly capable of caring for her. THAT'S NOT THE POINT. She's my mom, and I love her and I have slept on the FLOOR in her hospital room (before they had those dumb folding chairs) because she's my mom and if she's not ok, I'M not ok. Even if she tells me she's fine without me there, it's a moot point because I don't WANT to be anywhere else other than at her side 24/7 until I feel 100% convinced that I'm ok with NOT being there.

When LR had her first surgery, I went to the hospital rather uninvited. I slept on the couch in your house despite the fact she had you and her sister AND Maca there, because I didn't know whether she'd need me or not and I wasn't going anywhere until all 3 of you convinced ME that you could (and would) take care of her AND I felt comfortable enough that she was out of the woods to choose to leave. I didn't particularly care if any of you guys wanted me there or even if she wanted me there or not. I probably would've slept in my truck in your driveway if you guys had kicked me out JUST IN CASE she needed me. Because if she had needed me and I wasn't there for her, I wouldn't have forgiven myself... Notice I didn't say that I was concerned that she would've been unhappy with me, or that she wouldn't have forgiven me... I NEEDED to be there for her. It was as much about my needs as hers.

When my own family (mother, husband, etc.) were completely baffled and asked, "Doesn't she have people to take care of her?" I said, "Yes she does, but I don't care. I don't know how much they know about after-care and *I* need to make sure she's ok." My mom took my kids so I could be there for LR.

The second surgery wasn't nearly as risky, and I was already reasonably sure that the 3 of you had it under control for her. AND I discussed it with her several times to make sure I wasn't needed/wanted/required or couldn't help in even the tiniest way before making the decision to hang back this time.

And she's only my "true friend" not my "true love." If she were my "true love" you would've ALL had to put up with me sleeping on your floor or in your driveway and being at your house 24/7 because there's no way I would've left her side and I would've cancelled ALL of my plans for 2 months so I could be there "just in case." And if someone had acted like they were disappointed that I cancelled plans with them, I would've told them they must be insane for thinking I'd want to be anywhere else.
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  #107  
Old 04-14-2010, 03:22 AM
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midnightsun midnightsun is offline
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Default Still confused...

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Originally Posted by GreenGecko View Post
But what I don't do is make that particular thing important to ME. See, I want to do for others, but somehow I'm having an issue not putting myself in their shoes.
It's not about figuring out how to make that "thing" important to you so you'll remember. It's about it being important TO YOU to take care of the "things" that are important to the PERSON who is important TO YOU.

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Originally Posted by GreenGecko View Post
But I didn't for one moment think through her wanting me around
Again, you're focusing on not "knowing" or "thinking" about what she might "want." Whereas the actual problem is YOU not "wanting" to be there whether she "wants" you to or not. I didn't give a damn whether she "wanted" me to be there for her after the first surgery or not. *I* wanted to be there and that was just the way it was going to be.

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Originally Posted by GreenGecko View Post
So what I'm working on now is: realizing how important I actually am to her and asking myself if I'm willing to accept that.
From what I see perhaps what you should be working on is figuring out how important SHE actually is to YOU and asking yourself if you're willing to accept the answer...

Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenGecko View Post
I really need to make it a habit and force myself to see HER side and feel how SHE'S feeling. We are very simillar, but there are things that are important to her that really are not to me and vice versa, but at least she pays attention to what is/ isn't to me and plays on that knowlege. That is something I need to do, because that is what an S/O does. ESPECIALLY an S/O. A common friend should do that sa well.
Ok... I'm going out on a limb here because now I'm beyond confused... you've known her for 17 years and you have to "force yourself" to see her point of view and consider how she feels?? That speaks volumes to me... I'm just a "common friend" but I WANT to see her point of view and understand what is important to her because THAT is what is important to me... not because it's "what an S/O does" or even what a "common friend should do." It's what I WANT to do, and not an effort to meet someone else's expectations of what I "should" do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by redpepper View Post
Partner to me means just that, someone who takes care of their own issues and is with me in my quest to deal with mine. I don't become their issue and they don't become mine.
Wow RP! You summed up in one sentence what I've spent DAYS trying to convey to Stewy. Thank you for explaining it in a way that is profound and beautiful in it's simplicity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LovingRadiance View Post
LR Quoting GG: "I don't know how to be your man when you have another. It's how its been the whole time since you've been married. I was there doing his job when he wasn't. How do I do that when he is?How do I do what he did when he was gone? When he wasn't taking care of you? How do I keep doing that? How can I be on his level and have the same position as him when I've spent 10 years defering to him?....
I don't want to be secondary to you.".
That's the strangest thing I've ever heard you say GG... that's like me saying "I don't know how to be your friend when you have another..."

I don't give a hot damn HOW many friends LR has or HOW LONG they've been in her life and I didn't give a crap how MANY of them might be taking care of her after her first surgery or whether they were primary, secondary, tertiary or "promoted to sister" or her mother or a registered nurse or married to her or sleeping with her or her 18-yr-old daughter who's a certified nurse's aide with medical training. It didn't stop me from being there whether she needed me or not because that's where I wanted to be because *I* needed to know she was ok and taken care of NO MATTER WHAT.


Even tho Maca looked at me dumbfounded when I said I was staying the night, rolled his eyes numerous times and laughed at me for thinking he couldn't or wouldn't take care of her properly, I stubbornly slept on the couch. She is MY friend and I don't give a rat's ass if he's her husband or primary or the King of France... If I want to be there for her, in case she needs me, then I will be there for her and he (and the King of France) can go suck rocks. And she's not even my "TRUE LOVE."
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Last edited by midnightsun; 04-14-2010 at 04:20 AM.
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  #108  
Old 04-16-2010, 08:38 AM
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This is GG- BTW. On LR's lap top.

MidnightSun: I know you are struggling to understand just as many probably are. I'm also trying to understand myself. And , truly, I appreciate your support, advise and emotion regarding this situation. But there's something I'm not sure you realize you're missing here. In everything you've written to me and your comments on my posts. I've spent over 16 years being a "servant" to LR. Maca saw it as a puppy dog "love me,don't leave me, I need you" type of leach, who whould do anything and everything for her just to have a pat on the head. But the reality is that from the very begining, I was the ONLY one that never passed judgment on her, never accused her of ANYTHING, never blamed her for anything, never tried to prove her wrong, or even show her how she might BE wrong. I was her shoulder to cry on. My arms are where she felt safest and most loved. My ears were her venting machine. My eyes reflected the best of who she was/is. And I always, always made sure she knew that even when the world was shitting on her for whatever reason under the sun, she was loved. Unconditionally,without reguard, without selfishness. Loved with the sole desire to see her happy. I needed no pat on the head, but just to see her smile and hear her laugh and know that she's okay. It's only when I tried to break from that and be more "of the world" if you will, did I start to lose that in myself. It was always important, SHE was always important,but eventually I didn't believe I was important enough to her and thought that eventually she wouldn't need me...
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Last edited by LovingRadiance; 04-16-2010 at 09:11 AM.
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  #109  
Old 04-16-2010, 09:07 AM
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...I did let her down,never the other way around. But what you don't seem to realize, MS,is that our whole lives together I was always there for her as she needed me to be. I made myself into what she needed, when she needed it. I felt a sense of purpose when I could provide her with something from my heart. I SHOULD still feel that way,and keep it up, but now there's confusion.

When Maca started being able to handle and do the things she was needing from me, I felt (working on letting this one go as we speak) I wasn't needed for those things any more,or until he stopped doing them again.

I ALWAYS stepped back because I ALWAYS felt I wasn't good enough for her to keep. I lied to myself into thinking that because the reality is, I never made the effort to take more. To me, that was intruding on her. "If she really wants me, she'll take me. SHE'LL make the move" that's how I thought. And so, because she never did, then I felt like I wasn't good enough. And I forced myself to be okay with just being her... best friend. Her support, her enabler,her comforter.

NOW, I realize the importance of WHO I am to her is more important to her than WHAT I can give her. NOW I really need to re-wire my thinking.

So, thank you for trying to help me see things differently.But please understand that I'm trying to understand the differences between S/O and BF that many, MANY other people have no problem differenciating. I WANT to love her the best way I can. So,maybe my definitions are different, or maybe there are things I just don't see or view the same way as others. But I DO know that in order to truly love someone, you have to give them the love they understand. It's kind of like Andy Kaufman (Jim Carey) in "Man on the moon". Andy is laughing about a joke he played and it pissed off a lot of people, and Danny DeVito was his agent and he was asking him, "Are you doing this to make THEM laugh, or to make YOU laugh?" (that's not word for word mind you).

Point is, I need to read that book and know what her love language is so that she'll know when I'm trying to be sincere.

I would do ANYTHING for her, but.. I'm a great servant. Just tell me what you need and I'll make it happen. (but it might take a little while if it means I have to re-wire myself =o) I don't know right now, how to "just do it because it's important to me". What's important to me is doing for her whatever she wants/ needs. I need to change that. I am beginning to UNDERSTAND the concepts, but I'm needing to start putting them in action.

Thanks.
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Last edited by LovingRadiance; 04-16-2010 at 09:09 AM.
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  #110  
Old 04-16-2010, 08:38 PM
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GG, I'm glad you understand I'm trying to help, and I do understand where you're coming from. I'm not missing that dynamic between the two of you.

But there *is* something it seems like you might be missing even though you keep saying it yourself:

Quote:
Originally Posted by LovingRadiance View Post
I made myself into what she needed, when she needed it.
What happens when who you are to her is defined by her telling you what she needs & wants and then you "making yourself" into whatever you perceive that to be?

Take it one step further and contemplate what happens when she STOPS telling you what she needs & wants you to be... Because what she wants is for you to be YOU.

What happens when she realizes you don't know who you are unless she is defining it for you with her expectations?? And she realizes that is NOT what she wants.

I can imagine that would leave you feeling very lost, confused and not knowing what you are to her or where you stand...

Just my observation, take it for what you will.
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