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  #281  
Old 07-01-2011, 05:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Ariakas View Post
Don't forget the wading pool and the deep end.. and those of us who are currently on little day loungers .. (nice analogy btw.. wonder what happens in the hot tub...)
I don't like getting splashed or rough housed with... I have just the bathing suit!

I think its the whole darned pool area really. I was going to say the hot tub is for the swingers, but as I make a b-line for it before actually doing anything else I don't think that would fit for me. (watch, a debate will start now about what part of the pool is for what kind of non-monogamous person )
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  #282  
Old 07-01-2011, 05:56 AM
Ariakas Ariakas is offline
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I don't like getting splashed or rough housed with... I have just the bathing suit!
Sure sure.. that what they all say till you pick em up and toss em in the pool.. ..

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I think its the whole darned pool area really. I was going to say the hot tub is for the swingers, but as I make a b-line for it before actually doing anything else I don't think that would fit for me. (watch, a debate will start now about what part of the pool is for what kind of non-monogamous person )
There is always the adult pool ..

I will be the old retired guy hanging out on my lounger.. with a virgin caesar, reminiscing about the old days ahahha

hahahahaha... wonder who the life gaurd is .. ..
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  #283  
Old 07-01-2011, 06:06 AM
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Sure sure.. that what they all say till you pick em up and toss em in the pool.. ..
Don't you fucking dare! I'm a red head... I will be burning red with fire coming out of my ears. That Caesar will be doomed... unless of course you offer me your floaty and my own drink. Martini, dirty and wet please.

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hahahahaha... wonder who the life gaurd is .. ..
Oh man, good question. I know a few that would like to give themselves a self imposed title.
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  #284  
Old 07-01-2011, 06:13 AM
Ariakas Ariakas is offline
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Don't you fucking dare! I'm a red head... I will be burning red with fire coming out of my ears. That Caesar will be doomed... unless of course you offer me your floaty and my own drink. Martini, dirty and wet please.
Dirty and wet martini.. got it.. one of my specialties...

A wet firey readhead with a martini in hand.. thats quite a vision. Thinking James bondesque..

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Oh man, good question. I know a few that would like to give themselves a self imposed title.
I am sure, I also know a few who would be given the title but would turn it down ..
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  #285  
Old 07-01-2011, 06:40 AM
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I think there's beauty in the diversity of ways people relate. When anything is compulsory or coercive it's a problem. .
Agreed
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  #286  
Old 07-01-2011, 11:39 AM
Tonberry Tonberry is offline
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I'm personally not sure why saying one doesn't see casual sex as poly would be a negative. I don't see casual sex as polyamory in itself. It's also not monogamy. It's not a bad thing.
I only base it on my understanding that polyamory means several loves, and that casual sex means sex without love. That's why I said friends with benefits for instance were different because you love your friends.

Maybe some people have a different definition of polyamory, casual sex or both, and it becomes offensive to them? To me it's not an insult to casual sex or to polyamory to say they're different sides of a coin (nonmonogamy. Although seeing the chart, it's more a polyhedral dice than a coin). I don't think saying "this is poly" legitimizes anything and as a result I don't think saying "it isn't poly" is an insult either.

Is it possible within a poly relationship? Totally. Does it make a relationship poly by itself? I don't personally think so.

Other people do have definitions I disagree with. For instance the "cheating isn't poly" thing. I disagree with the idea that the second there is cheating, it can't be poly. It doesn't make it poly, either. For me, poly isn't a judgment, it's an orientation, and just like you can cheat in straight, gay, bi, ace relationships, you can cheat in mono or poly relationships, too.
To me, this "cheating makes things not poly" thing reeks of wanting to appear all nice and pure, and it makes us look less serious. If you deny anyone you think isn't doing things the right way by saying "they're not poly!" it looks like you want to pretend poly folks are better than mono folks or something.

I understand that poly also defines the relationship, but when applied to the person, it's an orientation, and it means someone who can be in love with more than one. Having casual sex or cheating (the first one being something I consider neutral, the second one negative, just to make sure I'm not misunderstood) don't change that.
If you love one but have plenty of casual sex, you're monoamorous but not monogamous. If you love many but have a single relationship, you're polyamorous but monogamous.

And if you love many, have open relationships with them, AND cheats or have casual sex, you are polyamorous and in a poly relationship (which we really should reclaim the polygamous word for as it would be much less confusing).

And if you love many, only openly have a relationship with one of them and cheats with someone else you love and/or have casual sex on the side, you're polyamorous in a non-monogamous, but not necessarily poly relationship. Because the relationship is defined by all its partners, so I do agree in this case it's based on agreements by everyone.
However the relationship might still be poly if you're allowed to have other relationships (but in the case of cheating, still have them behind your partner's back for some reason, or in the case of casual sex, just don't have any at the moment).

Anyway, I think I've explained my position in detail now. Of course not everyone is going to agree, but I hope they at least don't feel that I'm judging people who have casual sex. (I do think cheating is a negative thing because it hurts people, but that doesn't mean I'll go around blaming people for it destructively either).
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  #287  
Old 07-01-2011, 01:34 PM
Chimera Chimera is offline
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Originally Posted by Tonberry View Post
I'm personally not sure why saying one doesn't see casual sex as poly would be a negative. I don't see casual sex as polyamory in itself. It's also not monogamy. It's not a bad thing.
I only base it on my understanding that polyamory means several loves, and that casual sex means sex without love. That's why I said friends with benefits for instance were different because you love your friends.
I have no issues with your definition because I think it works for how you understand certain elements of what constitutes a relationship.
For me, the difference lies in how you and I define "love." I guess my definition of love and how I experience is broader. I don't think all casual sex is without love. It's not the same kind of love for me as for my partner of 20 years, but it's still a type of love for me. That's probably not true for most people though.
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  #288  
Old 07-01-2011, 01:52 PM
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Frankly, I'm at a loss to understand polyfidelity (it looks like multiple monogamy to me)
There are differing reasons people choose polyfidelity, and one of them is a very practical health reason: STDs. And that's valid.

And some of us -- myself included -- only engage in sexual relating with persons we open ourselves up with heart-and-soul, so the word "casual" about sex just seems wrong. How could something as obviously radically intimate as sex not involve the hearts and souls of the persons engaging in it?

That said, I think it is entirely possible to have truly wonderful and enriching sexual experiences with persons one is not committed to in a long term relationship. I've had that experience, and it was a LOVING experience, and not just a cheap form of "casual" recreation.

As a bi man, I'm deeply saddened by the extreme level of availability of cheap, insincere, meaningless and heartless "casual" sex in the "gay community," and the very low level of availability of heartfull, soulfull and loving contact. Truly, I think most "casual sex" is the plaything of cowards, and I respect courage -- my own and that of others. Loving requires courage; in this world it does. Sex almost always involves opening some orifice or another to another. I just think the heart should also be opened when this is going on, and that not doing so causes suffering and pain.
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  #289  
Old 07-01-2011, 02:52 PM
Tonberry Tonberry is offline
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I disagree with the idea that casual sex is necessarily cowardly and committed relationships brave. I agree opening your heart can be a hard experience where you make yourself vulnerable emotionally, but that doesn't mean that sex without doing that is cowardly. It's just a different opening.

You still reveal yourself naked, just physically rather than emotionally. You do it without the safer, more trusting context of an established relationship. If I have sex with someone after we've told each other we're in love and staying together for the long run, I know when I get naked they'll find me beautiful. And I know if we have hiccups we'll work through them.

You might not have that safety in casual sex, depending on who it is with. You're revealing yourself physically and sexually without the safety of the emotional complete sharing.

One reason why casual sex is hard for me, is because I have to let people see me take pleasure, and that's something that's hard for me, and requires a lot of trust first. So I feel people who are fine with showing themselves in such a vulnerable moment to people they haven't spent as much time "getting ready" for are braver than I am.
I also think it requires a lot of self confidence and that's something to be admired.

Some monogamous people say it's easier to have other partners than to fully commit to one, that polys are scared of commitment or of giving it all to a single partner. But while it might be true for some people, being poly can also mean making yourself vulnerable emotionally to more than one person instead of just one.

Here, it's similar. You see it as cowardly, but they actually risk a lot, I think. Plus you seem to think of it in terms of "casual sex instead of what I have". I think you should think in terms of "what I have, plus casual sex".
Not that it's impossible to have casual sex only, but it's not like it's the only option. (As for people who have casual sex only, committed relationships aren't for everyone, and even when it's for you, it's not always the right time for one).
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  #290  
Old 07-01-2011, 02:54 PM
Ariakas Ariakas is offline
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And some of us -- myself included -- only engage in sexual relating with persons we open ourselves up with heart-and-soul, so the word "casual" about sex just seems wrong. How could something as obviously radically intimate as sex not involve the hearts and souls of the persons engaging in it?
Because its simply a physical activity involving various body parts?

You carry a lot of judgement towards casual sex. Lots of people enjoy it and do it. Its like sport. Its not wrong, or belittling and can be fulfilling in its own way. I have done it in the past and it has been fulfilling in its own way..

In fact, if I turn your argument around, I would say your view is close minded and cowardly. Lets look at it like this. I have made some close friends because of fucking or sexual activity. In ways, I may not have if I had been closed off to the idea.. sex can be lots of things to lots of people.. you are limiting your exposure to possibility by shutting down one entire way to meet intimate lovers and friends.

For the record, I don't know if I hold those same views for myself now, I wouldn't change what I have done. I would imagine the men you mention in your post might be the same way. I am not sure I can do casual (the way most people are describing it here) now.. I am not sure I care to.. but I sure don't vilify it if other people want to do it.

In this wonderful world, to each their own is a deeply important way of thinking.

Casual sex is also a fantastic way to meet someone. I picked my wife up in a bar.. my ex gf I picked up at a house party and promptly found a closet. By limiting the possibility, you limit who you might be able to love. Period..

Some people make friend first and become lovers
Some people fuck and then become friends/lovers

Neither is right, neither is wrong, both are fun.. both can end up with the same results..

Last edited by Ariakas; 07-01-2011 at 03:03 PM.
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