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  #31  
Old 05-15-2012, 03:07 PM
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MrFarFromRight MrFarFromRight is offline
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Wow! Interesting thread. Let me add my 24 beans:

I came here straight from another thread about a guy wanting freedom to screw with others, but refusing his wife (gf?) that same freedom. You can read my comment here. But I see a difference here: your gf seems to see her unwillingness to share you with others as a weakness on her part, a weakness that she has (has she?) committed herself to working on. She agreed to a foursome in the past, if not very happily. The fact that it went so badly (that the other couple were arseholes) has increased her wariness/fear.

I would lose all my respect for MYSELF if I were to say: "I'm allowed to do this but you're not". I think it's highly hypocritical. This means that I can really feel for you, polypenguin. On the other side, I know what a struggle it was for me to battle my own jealousies and my inferiority complex when I was younger, and I hope that I could be patient with a partner who needed her time to get used to the idea. I also think that women are probably bombarded more (while growing up and as adults) with insidious messages designed to rob them of courage and self-esteem.

HOWEVER, there's a limit. You write that you've set a date for the end of this adjustment period. What exactly are the terms of this end?

a) Is she allowed to say: "No, I'm sorry. I just can't handle the idea of your being with somebody else, so - in order to be fair - I'll give up MY other relationships"? If you both agreed that this would be an option, then you've got to stick to it, but I think that you, polypenguin, are going to feel burned. ("At least she got her chance to get it out of her system.") And (more cynically on my part, but I've seen several cases of this), she might SAY that she's giving them up, in order to avoid the hurt of you being poly... but she might continue the relationships on the sly ("because I can't stop loving them"). This is called CHEATING and DISHONESTY.

b) Or have you decided that - once this adjustment period is over - you're allowed to start dating whether she's ready for that or not? Again, if you both agreed to that, then SHE's got to stick to it... but SHE's going to be hurt.

I think that you really need to have "extensive and meaningfull talks" about that 4-some incident:
Quote:
a couple weeks later, while staying over (though not sleeping with) that same couple, my girlfriend overheard a conversation between the two of them, where he said to his wife, (talking about me) "you need to go in there an fuck the shit out of him so she'll leave." Given, neither of us hang around with them anymore.
I think that you need to make clear to her that you were as disgusted by that attitude as she was. And here's what you really need to get across: that you love her and would never do anything to hurt her on purpose. We all have to accept that a bit of pain is wrapped up in the whole Love thang, it's [almost] unavoidable, but you 1) love her deeply, truly; 2) have NO intention of leaving her; 3) have NO intention of looking for somebody "better" than her... But fair is fair, and she's got to see that. Invite her to read this thread, read our comments. (I just hope that she isn't going to hate me, that she'll see that I sincerely have her best interests and her long-term happiness at heart as much as yours. Hell, I don't know either of you. Why should I take sides? I just know - from personal experience - that jealous, insecure people aren't very happy. And I'd like for her to be happy.)

One final question: Is your desire for poly freedom theoretical and based on needs for equality in your relationship, or are you actually already in love with somebody else? From here I'm about to jump into another thread: "Is it just me, or is this becoming more about sex only?" I never tire of repeating that - for me - poly's more about Love than about sex.

If you've got serious feelings for somebody else in particular and aren't being allowed to act on them, this must be even harder on you. I wish ALL of you the best!
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  #32  
Old 05-15-2012, 10:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by polypenguin View Post
Many wemen would consider having a three some with their boyfriend/husband, assuming it's with a girl.
Not me. My ideal threesome is with two men. I'm straight. Lots of straight women have threesomes or moresomes without there being another woman involved. Why make such broad generalizations? Try not to see things in such a limited way. You are so-o-o focused on sex. I really don't see your issues as having to do with polyamory, but more about casual sex.
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  #33  
Old 05-15-2012, 10:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrFarFromRight View Post
But fair is fair, and she's got to see that. Invite her to read this thread, read our comments. (I just hope that she isn't going to hate me, that she'll see that I sincerely have her best interests and her long-term happiness at heart as much as yours. Hell, I don't know either of you. Why should I take sides? I just know - from personal experience - that jealous, insecure people aren't very happy. And I'd like for her to be happy.)
Polypenguin's gf is a member here - username is Genebean - and her threads about their situation are here:

ugh. Tough stuff.

confused/upset you name it..
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  #34  
Old 05-16-2012, 01:04 AM
polypenguin polypenguin is offline
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nycindie, you're right, i guess i didn't realize i was making such broad generalizations. that said, i still think many people are incredibly male/female based. Sex with one is fine, but the other is a big no-no.

Ok just to clarify: when i say "sex," i mean dating, infatuation, etc. I don't just want intercourse, i want more love, more people to share my life with. i don't feel that love is a zero sum game, that is, i don't feel that one can only love one person.

The reason i talk mainly about sex, is because i feel if she can't deal with me having sex with another female, how could she deal with me being in love with another? once more to clarify for the future, from now on, i'll say love, not only sex.

so, to clear up where i'm at, I want to LOVE other people. It's important to me to do so. i want her to love other people. I don't have any intention or desire to leave her. She means more than i can say. That is why this is difficult for me, i can't leave her. That's why I'm giving her the time she needs.


Ok MrFarFromRight, I'd like to start off and say, thankyou. i really liked your post. I can't say i really have the answer to any of your questions, that is, i'm not sure once her time runs out i'm going to be like, "Ready or not, i'm going out to do _____." I love her, and i can't see myself just doing what i want, and letting her deal with it. At the same time, i can't see myself in a strictly mono relationship either.

If she's going to be with other people, i'm going to as well. That's not to say i won't give her the time agreed upon. I think that's only fair. this relationship is imbalanced right now, and that's ok, but i can't let it be that way forever. It wouldn't be fair for either of us.
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  #35  
Old 05-16-2012, 06:21 PM
polypenguin polypenguin is offline
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some of genebean's family is a little difficult to get along with. They hate anyone who is different, and anyone who won't band to what they want.

because of that, her family doesn't like me. Well half of the familt doesn't. We live, until august, with her mother. Don't misunderstand, we all pay equal rent, and got the house together. After nine months, momma bear realized she can't take our lifestyle. Much of this has to do with influence from the unfavorable side of the family. Two of the sisters are real well, bitches.

my point being, genebean is taking her mom moving out hard. We were going to move out when the lease was up anywho, but she feels her mom wants nothing to do with her. Which is debatable. So she's in a hard place right now. Probably the most difficult place in her life. Because of which, I think I may have to let her push back opening up our relationship. I'm not happy about it, in fact i'm very very upset about it, but she'll be cutting her ties with her mom one week, and opening a relationship the next. I think that'll be a little too much for her. Damnit, this waiting is really wearing thin.
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  #36  
Old 05-19-2012, 06:06 PM
polypenguin polypenguin is offline
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I feel like someone who is bi-polar. And I feel like she takes every time I mention another person in this relationship out on me. More and more, I feel like she hates me for this.

I don't feel like she trrusts me with anyone but her. I don't feel like i'm allowed to be with friends unless she's around. And I feel more lonely now than I ever have in my life. I don't think she has any desire to deal with her jealousy, because it's easier for her to be complacent. She's fine with her other partners being with other people, but not me.

I don't know how to deal with this, and it's breaking my heart.
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  #37  
Old 05-20-2012, 06:59 AM
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Arrowbound Arrowbound is offline
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So when are you gonna stand up for yourself and voice all of this? And demand better of this relationship and for you individually?
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  #38  
Old 05-21-2012, 02:37 PM
polypenguin polypenguin is offline
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well,

unfortunately I can't just bark orders at someone to get what I want. It would certainly be easier if I could, but I can't. She knows what I want, but I have to let her deal with her issues before that can happen. My problem is how to do myself justice in the mean time.
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  #39  
Old 05-22-2012, 08:40 AM
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How did you equate demanding better to barking orders at your gf? That's not what I meant at all. The thing of it is, until you are firm within yourself and also on your position in this relationship, you are at her whim.

I think it's important that you work through your issues with self-esteem and self-defeat, whether she's working through her jealousy or not.
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  #40  
Old 05-25-2012, 04:36 PM
polypenguin polypenguin is offline
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my apologies, merely my interpretation.

my self esteem is the best it's been in my life. it is and almost always has been pretty good. I'm a little confused as to what makes you believe differently. the reason I'm not demanding a completely equal relationship right now is not because she intimidates me or anything like that, it is because she asked for time to take care of her issues. I will admit, i don't care for the inequality, but it is only for a few more months.

I'm not quite sure how she is dealing with her issues. specifically jealousy and her self-esteem (specifically that she won't stop believing i want poly because of some negative attribute she thinks she possesses). I take several types of dance classes (ballet, tap, and jazz not to put too fine a point on it), and every time i go to dance class, she gets upset. she feels like I'm only going because of the girls. Given, their nice, and some of them are eye candy, but that's not the reason i go. i go because i very much enjoy dancing. and even if the girls were the major draw, i think she should be ok with that, right?

i made her a promise not to do anything with anyone but her until the time agreed upon. shouldn't that be enough? i have never broken a promise to her, not like that. i mean after all, the world is filled with attractive people, i would have no more or less chance cheating with any girls from ballet then from a yoga class, or the mall for that matter.

i am no longer going to try and convince her i love her or that this is not because she isn't good enough. i've tried to convince her more than four years, and i'm still not sure she believes she me. i'll give her the time requested, but when that time is up she will have to decide either to accept herself, or not. i think that's all i can do now.
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