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  #181  
Old 03-20-2011, 10:02 PM
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Originally Posted by axlfreak View Post
do i wish i got more than 4 days a week with him? absolutely. but i think of it like this, if we had another day, what would we do with it? we aren't NREing, so we tend to do old married couple stuff. like hang out in different rooms of the house, or run errands. admittedly a lot of what we do on 'my days' is not as exciting as her days, but i try not to compete. he's with me for me. and if he wants what she has more, then so be it.
Well, honey, if he's having hot dates with her, he should be having hot dates with you, too. This is the biggest trap that "old married couples" fall into -- not scheduling date nights and romance, as if all you're allowed to participate in is the chores and bill-paying, or thinking that since he sees you in your sweats and no makeup all the time, why bother dressing up and going out on the town? Hogwash, whether it's a poly relationship or not. I think it's probably even more important -- like, a gazillion times more -- when a spouse takes a lover, to make sure that his spouse gets sexy date time, too. How will you know whether or not his having another woman in his life will spice up what he's got with you if you don't have a date with him? Come on, you're worth the time, effort, and money -- and it will feel really shitty after a while if you aren't treated just as specially by him as she is being treated! I say, SPEAK UP and make sure you have date nights on the calendar on a regular basis! Where are you in the equation? Don't settle for what little crumbs are tossed your way and say "so be it, I won't compete." You should have dates with your hubby even if he isn't involved with another -- just because.

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Originally Posted by axlfreak View Post
i want to do this fully. as in, if they don't last, i want there to be no question that it was between them, and nothing to do with me. and if they do last, well i'm hoping the NRE finally cools down and he gets back to normal. and when he does he'll realize how great i've been. and she'll become a friend, instead of only his GF.
Uh-oh. This is really dangerous ground to be on. Basically what you're saying is that you're not happy in this situation at all but you are behaving in a way that you hope to use as a bargaining chip. You're strategizing and plotting about how your complacency -- and appearing to be accepting when you are not -- can paint you in a favorable light. You are being manipulative, if you really take a look. Rather than coming clean about your unhappiness with how it's all going, you're playing along with the hope that doing so will make you look good, or open-minded, or progressive, understanding, whatever. I'm guessing the fantasy is that your husband will be impressed and convinced that you're all he wants and then things can go back to how you want them. But doing that is at your own expense, don't you see? You're not being authentic and true to yourself. I assure you, this will only go kablooey in your face.

What happens when you can't take it anymore and everything comes to a head? What happens if it takes a year or more for NRE to "cool down?" You're going to put up with your discomfort for that long? They will wonder what your "problem" is because you've seemingly given them permission to do whatever they want (and they will likely keep pushing the boundaries if you do not define them clearly enough). You will seem totally irrational if you speak up after the fact. Talk, tell the truth, and ask for what you need. NOW. If saying you are uncomfortable hearing them have sex together is something that would "push him away," I wonder what kind of shaky ground are you on in the first place. You're doing yourself no favors by playing the role of good, understanding wifey-poo.
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Last edited by nycindie; 03-21-2011 at 04:11 AM.
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  #182  
Old 03-21-2011, 12:41 AM
Tonberry Tonberry is offline
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Originally Posted by axlfreak View Post
so i had some questions about definitions, and how things fit into them.

as i understand it, in a triad all three parties are romantically and sexually involved. and in a vee 2 parties are each separately involved with the 3rd.

so my questions are first, is that correct? and second if vees are not all romantically and sexually involved, how do the living arrangements pan out?
Yes, it is correct. As for how it pans out, it depends. For a vee, some people have two rooms for the branches, and the hinge picks which room they sleep in (or follow a schedule). Some people have one room per person, although it seems to be rarer (I also know monogamous people who sleep in separate rooms, this also seems rarer, but it works great for them. It feel more new, more like a date when they go to each other's bedrooms, and they have their own space too.)

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Originally Posted by axlfreak View Post
i ask these things because it seems R, K, and I may be becoming a vee. Although I've not counted out C yet (K's partner before this all came about, and still partner) so we may be a quad, or 2 vees...
It sounds like an N to me (also called Z).

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Originally Posted by axlfreak View Post
anyway, my other question being about living arrangements.. in a vee, do the 3 parties tend to live together? and, not being romantically or sexually involved, how difficult is that on the 2 parties that are not the hinge?
It really depends. On top of the configurations I mentioned earlier, you also have vees who share a bed, vees who share a bedroom with more than one bed, or vees who live in more than one place (two or three). And I'm sure there are more! With polyamory you really get to pick what works best for you. You should feel free to experiment until you find what works best.

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Originally Posted by axlfreak View Post
really i'm trying to come to grips with sex in my house, sex that doesn't involve me.
I thought I'd take this opportunity to say that vee doesn't always mean sex that doesn't involve everyone. It's possible for people A, B and C to have sex, where A and C have sex with B but not each other, and B is kind of the center or attention. Or B can please both A and C at once in different ways, etc. I don't think this is extremely common, but it does happen, and might be the norm for some poly relationships.

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Originally Posted by axlfreak View Post
as for the sex in earshot, i have thought about finding something to do while that's going on. but it almost seems cowardly to me. no offense to anyone who works this way. i just feel like, if i am doing this, if this is all going to be a part of my life, i need to be able to embrace it all.
It sounds like you're torturing yourself. Imagine a different household, with a couple and another person, either an adult (possibly a family member or roommate) or a child (most likely child of the couple). It makes perfect sense for that person to know intellectually that the other two are having sex, but not to want to hear it. And if they do hear it, it makes perfect sense to try and do something else, not sit there and listen because they "should be able to embrace it all".
You're the one who knows where your comfort zone is. Nobody else can know that, and you need to be firm about it and treat yourself the best you can.

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Originally Posted by axlfreak View Post
i'm hoping the NRE finally cools down and he gets back to normal. and when he does he'll realize how great i've been. and she'll become a friend, instead of only his GF.
Big warning sign here. You're basically suffering in silence in the hopes that you'll be rewarded later. I'm sure it comes from your people pleaser personality, but you need to realise how it might look for them. That is, since you don't voice what you dislike, since you force yourself to do things, they might very well think that's the way you like things.
And when they don't appreciate you for that and you resent them and tell them so, they would react thinking "but you liked it! Why are you blaming me for it now?"

It rings a bell for me because I had similar things with my soon to be ex husband. I'm going to talk about an anecdote that might seem silly, but I think represents very well what happened often with us.
One day we went to buy him sandals. At the time I had a job and he didn't (we each supported the other for half our relationship, although most of my supporting him was done through my parents). Any ways, it ended up being between two of them.
I asked him to pick the ones he preferred. While I had a preference, I didn't voice it in fear that he'd go with it to please me even though he didn't like it, as he's prone to it, and I insisted that he picked the ones HE liked best.
He picked the one I liked less, and I was fine with it, since it was his choice and all. So we paid and left.
Soon afterwards, there was an argument in which it came up that he had picked the shoes he liked least because he wanted to pick the ones he thought I would like more. And because he had done that for me I should be appreciative and bend for him as well.

My reaction? "I told you to pick the ones YOU liked best. You did that to yourself." The worst part was that his "sacrifice" was completely unnecessary and even harmful since I didn't even like these best.

Obviously, in this specific case, who cares if I like the shoes he's wearing? And I liked them enough, just not as much as the other ones. I was fine with his decision either way. He was so worried about deciding something that was what he thought I wanted that he went against his comfort (the shoes were apparently less comfortable) and likes (he preferred the look of the other ones), despite how much I insisted that he should pick the ones he wanted.

See how silly that is? I am not saying that you are acting in ways they'd rather you didn't, but I think there is a strong chance that they'd rather compromise now rather than realise in a while that you weren't happy about the situation. I has happened to me many times, and every time I felt cheated, lied to, betrayed. I had trusted him to tell me if things weren't up to his comfort, to voice his opinion, and he had lied to me, and then was blaming ME for it in the end ("I did it for you"). I really resented him for that. He felt like he was making himself miserable for no reason at all, telling me he was happy, and when it was too late for me to change things telling me "oh by the way, I'm miserable, it's your fault".

So, for that reason I would urge you to make your voice heard. I used to be like you, too shy to talk, and then I realised that the momentary discomfort of voicing yourself, as uncomfortable as it makes you ("do I deserve to have things done in a way that I like? Does it make me arrogant to think my opinion matters so much?") is much less uncomfortable than going through things you dislike hoping that people will be happier, only to realise in the end that they probably wouldn't have really cared either way, and you were miserable due to yourself only.

I don't know your exact situation, so I'm not saying it's all your fault here. They might be disrespectful of you. But you should remember that it's not going to be obvious to them what you like and dislike just because it's obvious to you. My boyfriend LOVES hearing his partner with other men. It turns him on a lot. Have you voiced that you don't? If you haven't, they might assume that you can't hear them, or that you don't mind or even like it.
You might think "if they cared, they'd tone it down" but if you haven't given them a reason to change, then it becomes an established pattern. If they became quieter, there is always a change that THAT would be a problem.

Do you see what I mean? I feel it's extremely important to be honest with your partner, and that means communicate the way you feel, in a way that doesn't blame them (avoid "you're too loud when you have sex" and try something like "hearing you two have sex makes me uncomfortable, what can we do about it?"). This way you're not blaming them, but approaching them with a problem you're hoping to all solve together.
Just use that approach as much as you can and remember that when you take care of your own happiness, the people around you don't have to, so that's also something you're doing for them.
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  #183  
Old 03-21-2011, 03:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Tonberry View Post
... since you don't voice what you dislike, since you force yourself to do things, they might very well think that's the way you like things.
And when they don't appreciate you for that and you resent them and tell them so, they would react thinking "but you liked it! Why are you blaming me for it now?"

It rings a bell for me because I had similar things with my soon to be ex husband. I'm going to talk about an anecdote that might seem silly, but I think represents very well what happened often with us.
One day we went to buy him sandals. At the time I had a job and he didn't (we each supported the other for half our relationship, although most of my supporting him was done through my parents). Any ways, it ended up being between two of them.
I asked him to pick the ones he preferred. While I had a preference, I didn't voice it in fear that he'd go with it to please me even though he didn't like it, as he's prone to it, and I insisted that he picked the ones HE liked best.
He picked the one I liked less, and I was fine with it, since it was his choice and all. So we paid and left.
Soon afterwards, there was an argument in which it came up that he had picked the shoes he liked least because he wanted to pick the ones he thought I would like more. And because he had done that for me I should be appreciative and bend for him as well.

My reaction? "I told you to pick the ones YOU liked best. You did that to yourself." The worst part was that his "sacrifice" was completely unnecessary and even harmful since I didn't even like these best.
... He was so worried about deciding something that was what he thought I wanted that he went against his comfort (the shoes were apparently less comfortable) and likes (he preferred the look of the other ones), despite how much I insisted that he should pick the ones he wanted.
.
OMG, TB, I hate to veer off topic, but my ex was the same way. The biggest example was one time we were going to have our house painted. I was a stay at home mom, so it was my job to go to the paint store and pick out paint chips in shades of green. We decided on a color. I checked and rechecked it was one he and I both liked. The painters were to arrive in a couple days (big house), and so i bought a dozen or so cans of paint. As soon as the painting was begun my ex said he didnt really like the color.

But it was too late to change it. So we lived for 8 years or so, with him somehow blaming me for forcing him to get that color.

Worse than a pair of shoes, eh?
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  #184  
Old 03-21-2011, 04:42 AM
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Do you all live together? I am trying to work out how this story relates to multi partner co-habitation...

Well, whatever the case, it sounds like there is some major assumptions going on, expectations, little communications and some boundary issues... all very well, but if this is a new relationship then I would suggest taking the bull by the horns and start talking or there could be a shit storm at some point if peoples feelings are not addressed and they are not talking about them.

This seems like a lot of gf time added way too fast. She might be a hot lay and NRE is running high, but that is a crap reason for an established relationship to suffer... it sounds like it is suffering if a partner has no special time with their partner and sits feeling uncomfortable listening to their partner have sex all the time. Usually in new relationships there is a gradual lead up to more time and more sex... boundaries are established in order to make sure everyone gets their need to feel special, wanted, needed and appreciated met. I don't hear this happening for you axlfreak. I just hear a sad person feeling left out, hoping their partner will get over it if everything goes their way. That is just sad and so unnecessary... it is an unusual way of approaching jealousy/fear though... wait it out and let it burn out. Hm... what if it doesn't?

Have you talked at all to your partner about any of this? Is he at all privy to any of your thoughts? If I were in his position I would feel very guilty/sorry and almost angry if my partner didn't tell me that they were hurting and struggling and waiting out my NRE. I would be very concerned about my behaviour and would really have a hard time knowing that I had hurt someone I love. I only have one expectation of partners and that is that they talk to me... communicate what is going on for them. I can't assume that I know what is going on for them and they can't expect me to know if they don't talk about it. I certainly would not want them to be waiting around for the NRE to end! If PN did that with Mono we would be in big trouble if he found out later that I intend to be with him for a very long time... even to the end of our lives. What would you do if your partner decides this and because he is thinking that you are good with it carries on the way he has until you break.

This pace you are keeping up is going to be exhausting at some point no? Can you really carry it on and be okay? I would think it would wear you down in terms of self confidence, self worth and connection to your partner... It would me anyway.
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  #185  
Old 03-21-2011, 04:47 AM
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Originally Posted by redpepper View Post
Do you all live together? I am trying to work out how this story relates to multi partner co-habitation...
Hi RP. This recent conversation starts at Post #172, where axlfreak asked about living situations for vees and hearing the sex going on in another room . . .
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solopoly.net/2014/10/31/why-im-not-a-secondary-partner-the-short-version/
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  #186  
Old 03-21-2011, 05:03 AM
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Hi RP. This recent conversation starts at Post #172, where axlfreak asked about living situations for vees and hearing the sex going on in another room . . .
thanks... this seems to not be on that topic though... I don't think living together should be in the cards with all these seemingly major issues going on... if in fact they don't live together yet. Or are they planning to... sorry axlfreak, I missed something here. maybe it isn't relevant to this thread?
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  #187  
Old 03-21-2011, 05:49 AM
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Originally Posted by redpepper View Post
thanks... this seems to not be on that topic though... I don't think living together should be in the cards with all these seemingly major issues going on... if in fact they don't live together yet. Or are they planning to... sorry axlfreak, I missed something here. maybe it isn't relevant to this thread?
I think in axlfreaks original thread it is discussed that her husband wants to move his gf in... despite her having her own gf and live-in situation... and i think there were pregnancy scares and things too yes?

very fast moving situation i believe it is only 2-3 months into the relationship with the gf
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  #188  
Old 03-21-2011, 09:02 PM
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Originally Posted by redpepper View Post
thanks... this seems to not be on that topic though... I don't think living together should be in the cards with all these seemingly major issues going on... if in fact they don't live together yet. Or are they planning to... sorry axlfreak, I missed something here. maybe it isn't relevant to this thread?
I think this was a different thread and they were merged.

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Originally Posted by Magdlyn View Post
Worse than a pair of shoes, eh?
Yes, definitely! Although I picked the shoes specifically because it seems to silly and unimportant, not worth picking a pair you don't even like! The main purpose is to walk in them, after all, and I wasn't going to be doing the walking (probably at least 6 sizes too big for me :P)

I guess the point is that it's just not worth doing things like that. You need to speak up your mind if you want it to be heard. I understand that it can come from a kind of shyness or humility at best (I would say at worst it can be due to cowardice (not wanting to argue about things) or even worse, trying to manipulate people so you can play the victim later one. What it stems from will depend on the person and context of course) but it really isn't worth it for anyone.
And when it comes from shyness or humility, I think it's worth talking about the other side of the fence so people realise they're not just making it unpleasant for themselves, but often for other people too, the one they wanted to make happy in the first place.
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  #189  
Old 03-24-2011, 03:28 AM
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Co-habitation came naturally with Lana - she already lived with us. The only thing that changed is she sometimes now sleeps in our bed with us or one of us sleeps with her on occasion. And of course, she is now sexually involved with both of us, which she wasn't as a roommate.

We moved way too fast in many ways with Adrian, and moving her in was one of them. Frankly, I think her moving in is what damaged that "leg" of the relationship beyond repair in the long run.
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  #190  
Old 03-24-2011, 04:15 AM
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as i understand it, in a triad all three parties are romantically and sexually involved. and in a vee 2 parties are each separately involved with the 3rd.
That is correct (there is a definitions page that explains SO MANY terms, you might look it up, it's in the golden nuggets section.

Quote:
if vees are not all romantically and sexually involved, how do the living arrangements pan out?
That completely depends on the parties involved and what's going on in their lives at any given time really.

Quote:
in a vee, do the 3 parties tend to live together?
Tend is a dangerous term when talking about polyamory or any non-monogamy really. Some do live together, some do not, some do and then decide not to, some don't and then decide to. It's all relative to the desires of the parties involved. I don't think one could easily identify the 'tendency' because too many people in this lifestyle aren't "out" to be able to identify how they do it.


Quote:
and, not being romantically or sexually involved, how difficult is that on the 2 parties that are not the hinge?
Again, depends on the parties and sometimes what time of the month it is! Everyone is so different, some people are just at ease with their lover having another lover, some are excited by it, some are ill at ease, some can't handle it at all. Just depends on the person.
GG had a hard time in the beginning hearing Maca and I together, but now he couldn't care less. It doesn't excite him, but it doesn't bother him either.
Maca can't handle hearing it or even thinking about it.
I found watching, hearing and hearing about Maca with his OSO exciting and endearing.
Just totally depends on the person how well they can handle it.
Quote:
or are there any vees in the crowd that have different living arrangements. such as the newest member living in a separate home, or somesuch. or does that make the relationship not a vee, but something else?
Where you live doesn't impact the type of relationship, just whose sexually involved with whom and even that is ultimately up to interpretation.

Quote:
can we all live together if i can't stand hearing them in the next room?
Can't stand hearing them or can't stand hearing them have sex? There's a big difference. If it's just the sex, then I would say yes you can. But, it's going to require a little imagination to make it work. It's not fair to limit their interaction over your issue, but if you can find a reasonable way to make it so that each of you gets what you need out of your respective relationships, then it's not a big deal.
With my two guys-they work opposite shifts, so that made it easy, I can be with one while the other is at work and vice versa.
But, you could also add insulation to the walls to make them sound proof.
You could schedule for yourself to have a class or "date" time with friends during their 'prefered' sexual time.
It's up to you three to find a workable solution.

Quote:
and is it too much to ask that they keep the noise down? i mean, i wouldn't want her to ask that of R and myself. so i can't very well as it of them.
Yes. And. No. It's ok for you to ask that they keep the noise down sometimes, but you need to afford her the same respect by doing the same.
It's not reasonable (imo) for you to make a rule that they have to keep the noise down and then not make arrangements for them to have time to be together when you aren't around so that they can peel the paint with their squeals if that's what they so desire AND
it's not reasonable to ask that they keep it down if you aren't going to do the same.
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