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  #1  
Old 03-12-2012, 05:43 AM
LemonCakeIsALie33 LemonCakeIsALie33 is offline
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Default Giving it a try with a friend who has a mono partner - bad idea?

Recently I posted about someone I thought was a friend - but it turned out she was something different in addition to that.

A week ago I realized I'm biromantic (in addition to bisexual). I had thought I was heteroromantic, but last Saturday I realized, almost out of nowhere, that I'm halfway in love with my closest female friend.

We started as acquaintances (the past two years or so), had sex in October, and became close friends. Then... something romantic.

It hit me like I'd been run over. My train was on the friendship track, and suddenly it jumped to the falling-in-love track. I let my guard completely down because I (unwisely) decided that as a heteroromantic person, women were "safe" because I couldn't fall for them. My life has been changing so fast, and I only recently discovered that I'm poly, even. I feel raw and exhausted.

I told her. I was terrified, but I told her. She returns my feelings! She wants to be with me, too.

Here's where it gets awful.

She said she'd talk to her boyfriend about opening up their relationship.

He's okay with us having a romantic relationship but wouldn't want it to ever be sexual.

Despite them only being together for four months so far, she's very serious about him and him about her (this does concern me, but I'm trying to be supportive of her feelings).

Basically, he's insecure in the relationship. And because of his insecurity, we don't get to be together. Eventually (even months or a year from now) we'd want sexuality, and he'd block it.

You might say he seems conservative, but they had sex on the first date. Really, he's just being insecure and, to my mind, rather selfish.

It's so hard to know she wants to be with me and we can't because she wants to stay with him. I want them to stay together. I'm even okay with secondary status because I'm very busy. I just want to be with her, too.

It kills me that I'm asking so little - I want so little. And yet he's not even considering that his jealousy, his discomfort might be based on irrational beliefs. I asked her to show him the MoreThanTwo website, and she said she'd look it over and show it to him.

So now the question is, what do I do? She wants to be with me, but she's okay with things staying as they are. After all, she's acknowledged to herself her feelings for me for months and even thought of asking me to date her. She didn't ask because she thought I didn't like women (and god, how I regret boxing myself in like that).

But I can't put my feelings back where they came from. Now that they're out, I can't put them away and be friends like we were before.

Do I go away for months or maybe longer, waiting until my feelings go away and I feel okay being her friend?

Do I try a non-sexual romantic relationship with her on a trial basis, for a month or two, while they both learn about polyamory, and check in with him and see how he feels afterward? (I'm certain this would only deepen their connection and not cheapen it, as he worries it would.) Of course, I'd be risking deepening my feelings for her and perhaps (probably) having to break it off anyway.

What should I do?
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Last edited by LemonCakeIsALie33; 03-12-2012 at 05:47 AM.
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Old 03-12-2012, 06:29 AM
ThatGirlInGray ThatGirlInGray is offline
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It feels to me like you're boxing yourself in again. You seem to regret not being able to date/spend time with her the way you could have over the previous months. Why turn down the chance now that you know it's there?

Yes, it sucks that the bf isn't automatically ok with you and she being together sexually (especially since you have been already, but that's just my pov) and might never be ok with it. But sex isn't everything. Since I seriously doubt sex is all you want from her, why not go with the romantic feelings you're both having? Do you really think not being with her at all is better than only being able to be with her in certain ways?

Yes, your feelings might get even stronger, and yes, it might hurt even more later, but as you said, your feelings are already there. You're absolutely right that you can't put them back in the box so it's already going to hurt if you try to cut yourself off from her now and try to transition back to just friends. Why not have some joy with her in the meantime? You never know what the future will bring or what will happen with her and the bf. To go with a cliche: life is short. As long as it brings you overall more happiness than not, I would say take love when/how it's offered.
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Old 03-12-2012, 06:37 AM
LemonCakeIsALie33 LemonCakeIsALie33 is offline
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It feels to me like you're boxing yourself in again. You seem to regret not being able to date/spend time with her the way you could have over the previous months. Why turn down the chance now that you know it's there?

Yes, it sucks that the bf isn't automatically ok with you and she being together sexually (especially since you have been already, but that's just my pov) and might never be ok with it. But sex isn't everything. Since I seriously doubt sex is all you want from her, why not go with the romantic feelings you're both having? Do you really think not being with her at all is better than only being able to be with her in certain ways?

Yes, your feelings might get even stronger, and yes, it might hurt even more later, but as you said, your feelings are already there. You're absolutely right that you can't put them back in the box so it's already going to hurt if you try to cut yourself off from her now and try to transition back to just friends. Why not have some joy with her in the meantime? You never know what the future will bring or what will happen with her and the bf. To go with a cliche: life is short. As long as it brings you overall more happiness than not, I would say take love when/how it's offered.
Oh my gosh. Wow. You're so right!

I guess... neither of us want to start this relationship if it's definitely going to reach a barrier to closeness. Both of us are very very sexual people and tend to enjoy showing our love (with friends and romantic partners) in a physical way. So if we know we can never be sexual, we're going to at some point reach a level of closeness and feel trapped there, and eventually it would become painful.

I suppose if we could negotiate to be allowed to kiss (at least without tongue), I could be very happy in this relationship, at least for a few months while we try to work things out.

I just... I feel pain when I think about being romantic with her and not being allowed to kiss her. I've wanted to kiss her lips again for so many long months that it would be really painful to continue onward like that (and probably more painful than before, now that I've admitted it's not just lust). I also know that in a few months, our relationship would call out for sexual expression.

I think he's boxed himself in, too. He's "certain" that he'd "never" be okay with she and I being sexual. How could he possibly know that? Things change, and people change.

I'm afraid to go into this wanting him to change his mind. But god, I would regret not trying. It sounds like she and I need to have another talk.

Wow, though. You're right. Thank you so much!
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Old 03-12-2012, 08:47 PM
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And because of his insecurity, we don't get to be together. Eventually (even months or a year from now) we'd want sexuality, and he'd block it.

You might say he seems conservative, but they had sex on the first date. Really, he's just being insecure and, to my mind, rather selfish.
...
It kills me that I'm asking so little - I want so little. And yet he's not even considering that his jealousy, his discomfort might be based on irrational beliefs. I asked her to show him the MoreThanTwo website, and she said she'd look it over and show it to him.
Read this back. Hear what you sound like? To me you sound whiney; like you're stamping your foot and saying, "I don't get to have that and you do. *whine* You're selfish.*whine*" Its not very considerate of his feelings, or hers. Sharing partners doesn't mean you get your way RIGHT NOW. It means having empathy, the ability to see the bigger picture, patience with peoples pace and learning curve, realizing that sometimes, you just don't get what you want.

Everyone has boundaries. This is his boundary. Good for him respecting that of himself. Now I think you should be respectful in return. After all, you are working towards a good metamour relationship just as much as towards a partnership with her. I woulkdnt be skimping on the respect if you want it in return.

If you think of this from a mainstream, non-poly perspective he might be thinking, "who the fuck is this person that they think they can waltz in on my new relationship and demand that they have a partnership just becase they feel all loving and sexy toward my gf." I think he's been kind to even consider it at this point. Cut the man some slack. He's giving what he can at this point.

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Do I try a non-sexual romantic relationship with her on a trial basis, for a month or two, while they both learn about polyamory, and check in with him and see how he feels afterward
bingo
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Old 03-12-2012, 10:45 PM
LemonCakeIsALie33 LemonCakeIsALie33 is offline
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Read this back. Hear what you sound like? To me you sound whiney; like you're stamping your foot and saying, "I don't get to have that and you do. *whine* You're selfish.*whine*" Its not very considerate of his feelings, or hers. Sharing partners doesn't mean you get your way RIGHT NOW. It means having empathy, the ability to see the bigger picture, patience with peoples pace and learning curve, realizing that sometimes, you just don't get what you want.

Everyone has boundaries. This is his boundary. Good for him respecting that of himself. Now I think you should be respectful in return. After all, you are working towards a good metamour relationship just as much as towards a partnership with her. I woulkdnt be skimping on the respect if you want it in return.

If you think of this from a mainstream, non-poly perspective he might be thinking, "who the fuck is this person that they think they can waltz in on my new relationship and demand that they have a partnership just becase they feel all loving and sexy toward my gf." I think he's been kind to even consider it at this point. Cut the man some slack. He's giving what he can at this point.

bingo
Thank you for your bluntness. I appreciate that more than anything else.

"Read this back. Hear what you sound like? To me you sound whiney"

I didn't mean it like that. When I read it again, knowing how I meant it, it's full of desperation, not petulance. I realize why it sounds like whining to an outside observer, and I really don't mean that.

It's not about getting what I want right now. I feel desperate because I need to somehow resolve this or at least take some kind of action soon (even if that is just internal), because this is affecting my life in a very bad way. I'm having trouble sleeping, I've missed a couple of classes, I don't want to eat. Normally I'd be equipped to handle this, but it's all coming on the heels of a lot of emotional stress and I'm just feeling burnt out. I'm in danger of slipping grades and I'm desperate for a resolution as soon as humanly possible.

But I also want to make the best possible decision.

I'm sure I'm not the only one feeling stressed, but I'm just feeling so frustrated. I would feel better if he just wasn't open to non-monogamy at all, or if he wasn't sure if he'd be open to sexuality (rather than just saying no, forever, right now). It seems so contradictory and I can't make sense of it.

I want to decide based on what will make me happy in the long term - without unnecessarily hurting others, of course. I'm afraid that trying something with her would lead to short-term happiness and than a nasty fall back to Earth when he just isn't comfortable with this.

I'd be okay with any solution that relieves this pain as soon as possible. I wish I could go back to thinking we were friends and not anything else. I feel weak that I can't just be friends with her without hurting.

I just want to be sure I'm not making a bad decision. I need help to make a good one.

I do hope I haven't made a bad impression, Pepper. I value anyone who can be this blunt.

I just feel so lost.
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Last edited by LemonCakeIsALie33; 03-12-2012 at 10:55 PM.
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  #6  
Old 03-12-2012, 11:00 PM
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No bad impression at all. I hear your pain. I'm sorry its been hard. Whining usually is about pain. Just in grown ups it changes into grown up pain... if that makes sense. I'm whiny today because I feel yucky. We all do it sometimes when things aren't easy.. I get it.

I am not sure what this decision is that you think you have to make. Is it anxiety that SOMETHING is happening and SOMETHING could happen? I am wondering why there is a need to rush... which I mentioned previously in my last post. What decision do you have to make? Did I miss something. Sorry if I did.

This guy needs time I think. She isn't going anywhere, you aren't going anywhere, the love you feel (and she feels) isn't going anywhere. Take a breath, get some sleep, let them figure out some stuff and leave them to it for a bit. If I were in your situation I would do this last bit for sure as there is nothing more distracting to a persons process than someone that is coming on strong with their need to know RIGHT NOW what will happen next.

This might not work out for many reasons, but at least its a start into poly. If she decides that she can't be with you because of him then you will survive and will have learned something. Who knows, it might come around again. I am 42, I have partners that have come around over and over again who are lifers now with me. I love that sometimes I don't see them for years and then, they are their again. Still themselves, but having grown and matured and become more lovely than ever. When I was your age I thought that was it forever.... nope, things change with time and people change. I wish I had trusted that back then and relaxed, rather than allowing myself to disintegrate in pain and anguish over situations I was in.

Give yourself a break, you are doing fine in this. Take some time away from this and do some self care. The most important person in this is you and your relationship with yourself. Take care of yourself first.
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Old 03-12-2012, 11:15 PM
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This is a lot of "new" that you are all sorting out. It's only been a week. There's no way you're going to have all the answers yet about where this is going to go. Your love interest's bf has a lot to process. I doubt he knows for sure yet that he'd never be ok with you being physical with your love interest but for now it feels safe to him to say that he'll never be comfortable with it so that he doesn't get pushed to move faster than he's ready for.

When you're one of the people who's involved in NRE every little step seems to take forever because you know where you want to be. For those on the outside of that NRE I assure you that time seems to be moving much faster and that it seems impossible to keep up with all the changes that have (from thier point of view) come out of nowhere.

Give it some time, go with the flow and enjoy this new relationship for what it is now, without any expectation of what it might become down the line. Build a relationship with her, keep talking to her and her boyfriend. Things might shift slowly but chances are that they will shift. There isn't any rush, if it's supposed to be it will be. If it isn't supposed to be you have learned that you are biromatic which is an important peice to learning who you are as a whole.
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Old 03-13-2012, 12:03 AM
LemonCakeIsALie33 LemonCakeIsALie33 is offline
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Originally Posted by redpepper View Post
No bad impression at all. I hear your pain. I'm sorry its been hard. Whining usually is about pain. Just in grown ups it changes into grown up pain... if that makes sense. I'm whiny today because I feel yucky. We all do it sometimes when things aren't easy.. I get it.
I think I see what you mean. You're not meaning to trivialize the pain, just reminding me not to demonize other people or expect them to know things they don't know yet (and that I didn't know a year ago, even)?

It makes sense. I just don't want to be a "whiner," even if I do whine sometimes. Does that make sense?

It's going to seem weird in a week that I was so worried about the opinion of an internet stranger, but I'm really fragile today. Somehow I think you can probably empathize.

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What decision do you have to make? Did I miss something. Sorry if I did.
I need to change something so I can function. Again, it can be within myself.

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This guy needs time I think.
Do you think he'll actually think about this? I mean... from his perspective, maybe he's "won" and there's no reason to keep considering anything?

Is that, perhaps, not a very likely thing?

I guess... I'm struggling to understand this one view of his, so to me he could be an alien for all I know. Though I suppose I'm more the alien here, especially to him.

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Take a breath, get some sleep, let them figure out some stuff and leave them to it for a bit. If I were in your situation I would do this last bit for sure as there is nothing more distracting to a persons process than someone that is coming on strong with their need to know RIGHT NOW what will happen next.
This is true. She hadn't responded to a couple texts I sent asking if I could broach a possible solution (the trial period thing), and I was concerned that she might be upset, so I asked her if she needed some time. She said her phone was buried in her bag because she didn't feel like talking to anyone (very uncharacteristic of her) and that she wasn't upset and a few days to soak it in would be good.

I'm sure this is messing with her, too. She's had feelings for me for months and thought I didn't like girls, so I'm sure this is a shock.

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Originally Posted by redpepper View Post
This might not work out for many reasons, but at least its a start into poly. If she decides that she can't be with you because of him then you will survive and will have learned something. Who knows, it might come around again. I am 42, I have partners that have come around over and over again who are lifers now with me. I love that sometimes I don't see them for years and then, they are their again. Still themselves, but having grown and matured and become more lovely than ever. When I was your age I thought that was it forever.... nope, things change with time and people change. I wish I had trusted that back then and relaxed, rather than allowing myself to disintegrate in pain and anguish over situations I was in.
How can I trust things I've never experienced? I want to but I don't know how.

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Give yourself a break, you are doing fine in this.
This made me cry. I really needed to hear that I'm doing fine. Thank you. I've been trying to take care of myself but sometimes I can only do so well at that.

I feel so confused and just "give yourself a break" is... It's so validating. Thank you.
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Last edited by LemonCakeIsALie33; 03-13-2012 at 12:17 AM.
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Old 03-13-2012, 12:04 AM
LemonCakeIsALie33 LemonCakeIsALie33 is offline
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This is a lot of "new" that you are all sorting out. It's only been a week. There's no way you're going to have all the answers yet about where this is going to go. Your love interest's bf has a lot to process. I doubt he knows for sure yet that he'd never be ok with you being physical with your love interest but for now it feels safe to him to say that he'll never be comfortable with it so that he doesn't get pushed to move faster than he's ready for.

When you're one of the people who's involved in NRE every little step seems to take forever because you know where you want to be. For those on the outside of that NRE I assure you that time seems to be moving much faster and that it seems impossible to keep up with all the changes that have (from thier point of view) come out of nowhere.

Give it some time, go with the flow and enjoy this new relationship for what it is now, without any expectation of what it might become down the line. Build a relationship with her, keep talking to her and her boyfriend. Things might shift slowly but chances are that they will shift. There isn't any rush, if it's supposed to be it will be. If it isn't supposed to be you have learned that you are biromatic which is an important peice to learning who you are as a whole.
This is really comforting. Thank you.
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Old 03-13-2012, 12:55 AM
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I think I see what you mean. You're not meaning to trivialize the pain, just reminding me not to demonize other people or expect them to know things they don't know yet (and that I didn't know a year ago, even)?
I am not meaning to trivialize it, no. Its hard to tell someone that they might want to consider if they are whining or not, lol. How does one say that without actually saying "you sound whiny." Maybe I could of said it differently. Sorry if I came across as sounding anything more than suggesting you have a look at that.

Yes, he is not where you are at and neither is she... it takes time.

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I just don't want to be a "whiner," even if I do whine sometimes. Does that make sense?
Oh ya, I hear ya sister

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Originally Posted by LemonCakeIsALie33 View Post
It's going to seem weird in a week that I was so worried about the opinion of an internet stranger, but I'm really fragile today. Somehow I think you can probably empathize.
I do. I really do. You and I seem more similar than you realize, lol.

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I need to change something so I can function. Again, it can be within myself.
Good idea.

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Do you think he'll actually think about this? I mean... from his perspective, maybe he's "won" and there's no reason to keep considering anything?

Is that, perhaps, not a very likely thing?

I guess... I'm struggling to understand this one view of his, so to me he could be an alien for all I know. Though I suppose I'm more the alien here, especially to him.
The thing that I have come to know is that much change and growth happens for people when they are given space. In that silence there is more going on than I like to believe at the time.

Like I said about loves coming back into my life. While we have been apart, after things have blown up, I have discovered that they have thought about things deeply and have been just like me in that they are just as emotional and affected by the drama that has occurred. This situation you are in seems no different to me.

I have just gone through a break up where I feel like he and his wife have "won." Did they really though? Stuff was said that really hurt me and while they got some release at the time, did they really end up feeling better in the end? I doubt it. They didn't win at all, they lost me entirely. If things were handled differently I would of moved on with good memories and the satisfaction that we had our time, now I have sadness and pain. I don't think that is what they wanted for me. I like to believe that people are more loving than that.

This man, if he is empathetic at all, knows deep down that you are hurting, that she is hurting, that he has no control over this love of yours and that while he has kept it at bay for the time being, things will never be the same between them again. There is some grief in that as much as change. Love has a way of doing that to people.

He can put a halt to it, but she is changed now because of it. She has some knowledge of him that she didn't know before and needs to process how she feels about that. He is faced with some knowledge about her that he didn't know before that he now has to process. He needs time to do that also... the end result will be a change. There is no avoiding that. He and she could decide that that change is to see how it goes with you becoming a different part of their lives than you have been or it could be that the door is closed to that. What that does to their relationship and to yours with her is yet to be seen.

Yes, I am pretty sure they are overwhelmed with "thinking about it."

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I'm sure this is messing with her, too. She's had feelings for me for months and thought I didn't like girls, so I'm sure this is a shock.
yup.

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Originally Posted by LemonCakeIsALie33 View Post
How can I trust things I've never experienced? I want to but I don't know how.
Yes, I get that... hard to do. I guess I am passing on some wisdom that is to keep in mind as you live your life. I wish I had heard it before. Take it or leave it really. The choice is yours. Use it to remind yourself on when the going gets tough if that works for you.

Example: When I was fresh out of university (23) I feel in love with my first woman. I lived in a small town with my parents and she was still in high school. She was 17. I loved her to bits. I would of died for her back then. I was beside myself with love and devotion.

Her dad found out about us and tried to run me over with his truck. She never spoke to me again and I tried to take my life. I was ruined, alone in a small town and had nothing but a huge student loan debt. I got through it....

Years later when I was married to my wife, I got a letter from her. She had been desperately afraid. Of course she had! I hadn't even thought of it. We started up a long distance conversation by phone and I eventually was compelled to visit her. It nearly destroyed my marriage, but I went. Her and I re-connected in a wild frenzy. I was about 28.

I found out that she was into stuff that I am not and again we had a falling out. I guess I came across as judgmental to her when really I was just concerned and confused that she would want to do stuff like she was doing.

Years later again I found her on FB and we connected again (I was 34). I went to visit her again after a love affair via skype. Again I almost lost my second marriage. Again I was bowled over.... Again it ended in pain. It continues to this day. We are very gentle with each other this time around and have a simple respect that we need to "not do that again."Ha, who knows where its going. I am just glad that we can talk at this point and love her with all my might but not be with her.

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This made me cry. I really needed to hear that I'm doing fine. Thank you. I've been trying to take care of myself but sometimes I can only do so well at that.

I feel so confused and just "give yourself a break" is... It's so validating. Thank you.
you're welcome. you ARE doing fine... its just all part of it. *hugs* Welcome to poly, lol.
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