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  #71  
Old 06-10-2012, 10:01 PM
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That's great that you're seeing the counselor, she can probably help you a lot with your internal dialog, getting even more out of the TEA exercises, etc.

I think part of it is you just need more time to learn that you can trust yourself. Your self-trust level is a little low, as you are afraid of "falling apart" if M isn't there to help.

Keep talking things through; let your rational mind examine all that's going on with your "irrational mind," almost as if you were stepping outside of yourself and looking at yourself from an observer's point of view.

The small steps will add up (in spite of the steps backward).
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  #72  
Old 06-11-2012, 08:09 PM
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Well, M is here to help at times, but she's fucked up about the whole thing herself. She fucked a couple she's known for some time in the weekend. I know way too many people in this town...

I found out approx 15 minutes ago, not through M. BUT, we are single, not a couple, and life has been tough on M dealing with me. She deserves a break, and old friends and sex sounds a nice way to relax yes. I'd have done it in these uncertain times. I do not judge here for her appetites and insecurities, we are here to heal my insecurities, and life...

Initially I felt rage, then plunging blackness, I wrote a long boring emo letter to M then deleted it. The problem with being privy to things you really shouldn't be, is holding it in. Fuck that, that's when I start getting all morally superior, judging M for being human, telling her off for doing things I'm perfectly capable of doing myself.

I am responsible for my happiness. And so I have some processing to do. It's the same fear as always - I lose her, thus I fall apart. That she doesn't love me. But she does, i jsut can't rely on that to get through life, i need to love myself, to forgive myself for the mess I made.

Thoughts: I have lost M permanently. She will be my friend and lover but there is so much water under the bridge things are irreperable.

Errors - there's a few, but it may be true too.

Analysis: I have not LOST M. I have lost some of her respect, and her trust. The only way to repair that is to be strong within myself and get my own act together so she sees the man who was supportive at first (despite being a mess in life), not the emo obsessive mentally ill worry I became. M is under huge stresses and so she went for a spa with old friends who she has fucked before and alcohol led to flirting led a a great night had by all. As i was not involved I feel put out but it was completely impromptu, and had I been there things would probably not have escalated and M would not have had a night she probably needed. I feel betrayed, but we are not an item right now. i feel plotted against, but it was not a planned thing it just happened. I feel left out.

Thoughts: M doesn't want to sleep with me anymore.

Errors: Conclusions, awfulising, globalising.

Analysis. I still turn her on, which is amazing considering it got to a point where i didn't only a fortnight ago. i am lucky she wants some at all, she is my friend not my girlfriend, i need to be grateful I still get laid. It could be worse, a lot worse with a horrible break up and bad feelings all round.

I really need to concentrate on my life. on maintaining the things i have and working actively towards building more for myself. I must get a car in place, and work, and a social life outside of M, before she goes overseas.

She hasn't actually done anything wrong as we are not a couple. It is me feeling wronged. It is me who thinks everything is about me. This is an enormous EGO which is there to compensate for low self esteem.

As there is no way to happiness (controlling M does not = happiness) but happiness is the way - I need to be happy for her. Even more so, I need to be happy for myself.

HAPPY FOR MYSELF!! AM I MAD!!?? A little...

I have an opportunity here to face the fear of being independant. I am a man unto his own means. I have the chance to make good with myself, to take care of business in the face of adversity. Here is my chance, to fold over and fall apart, or to walk tall, to love myself and my own company.

I feel scared yes, this is crunch time. I got an exam tomorrow, got to perform regardless. I still love M. nothing changes that, the obsession wants to come back, the obsession wants to avoid the fears, to fall apart and dwell on it and run over everything and beg and cajole some kind of agreemont out of M. My obsession wants to repeat past mistakes as it is not a very good thinker, its an emo child.

My fears. I will not handle it. i will fall apart. Today i might medicate a bit more weed than usual if i have to, just to focus. i am off to walk now, then push some weights, then eat.

This is the moment I have been waiting for. This is the scary shit right here right now really. I'm going to be ok. I'm going to take care of MY business. I'm going to find love and appreciation inthis day. This day is all I have to get through, and I will, and i will even enjoy some of it.
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  #73  
Old 06-11-2012, 10:00 PM
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Sorry to hear it's been a rough ride of late. I'm sure you and M are both under pressure, so you will need to be understanding toward one another.

Remember what we often say in the poly community: Love is an infinite resource. Even though M was "with" someone else, that doesn't mean she loves you any less. You have to be able to have trust in M's love for you.

Trust appears to be a challenging issue for you all around: trust for yourself, and trust for M. Since trust is built up very gradually over a long amount of time, you'll need to have a lot of patience: for yourself, for M, and for the process.

It is great that you are going out there and doing proactive things to help yourself stay on track, and maintain a good perspective. The obsession seems to be a kind of tunnel vision, so "expanding your horizons" should help you to overcome that.

Thanks for your thoughts and updates, there's no telling how many people might benefit from your experience. Above all, I believe you are benefitting from it. I see signs of that.
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  #74  
Old 06-12-2012, 07:09 PM
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Thanks Kevin

Been watching more Wayne Dyer. The man is a guru and I need the spiritual side of my life enhanced fast. I guess this is happening.

Me and M, so much water under the bridge now, by the time the last mess is cleared up she's made another and I'm the one picking up all the pieces. It has to change or stop as I get hurt every time, then she gets guilty and when she's like that she pushes me away making things even harder for me. I deserve a lot better. Yes i made some mistakes, but i deserve better. We have a wee break away coming up in a few weeks, i need one more talk, I'll give it one more shot, as I don't give up easily, but I'm pretty sure its over. M is trying to convince herself she doesn't need anyone. She's barely reachable. It pains me greatly to think of her in pain, she thinks she will cause me nothing but grief so should leave me, and now she's acting out as she thinks it's all broken. I'm thinking it's all broken. It's pretty fucked right now. Basically, I think I want to repair things more out of self preservation due to my fears, as rationally, I should get away as far as I can and heal.

Still pretty scared. Yesterday I did the best I could. I exercised, ate little but ate, spent time in 3 situations where I was able to study with company around. And today an exam.

I am OK. I have heard my warning, I must grow up and not repeat the same mistakes of my past. When the going gets tough I need to know, that dark place is of my own design, it is born of thought, and thought can keep me out of it as well.

I am OK. I am handsome. I am loving. I am loved. My life is surrounded by people who care for me. I am intelligent. i am funny.

I will have a lover who loves me as much as I her, who is not hurting me on a regular basis. I will never have to be an obsessive jealous man again I have learned these lessons. I can build a life with great love, a good job and income, a social life that involves many circles, a stage life with our funniest people, and fans, bless them, to network with. I will have a wee car to boot about in, people to visit, jobs to do. I will recreate the amazing social life I had a few years back.

Today is all I have to get though. It is my choice to suffer through or enjoy the day. I am OK.

Thoughts: I will be hurting for a long time. i will never get over this.

Errors: Conclusions, awfulising, globalising, ignoring positive.

It is only thoughts that drive feelings, and where the subconscious is involved it can be reprogrammed through visualisation right before sleep. I know I can change my thoughts and thus feelings, sometimes it is harder than others but the reality is I am not in a black hole, and I need never go there. I have processing to do and it is hard but I can do a little then get up and spend the rest of the day away from that stuff. I will get over this, the same as I got over J, J, K, T, N and others. All of them I thought was 'the one' yet this cannot be, 6 women, all the one. Oh polyamory! So, there were varying degrees of mess according to if my life was in any semblance of working order or not. Basically I have abandonment issues and they have nothing to do with M and everything to do with a past I choose to no longer be dictated to by. I have not been abandoned. in the past though, I have abandoned myself.

Nobody else can fix this for me. Faith in myself. Faith I am surrounded by people who care for and love me. faith I can continue to train my thinking and achieve happiness - the way.

I am apprehensive. I feel nervous to start in case anything hurts. Standing, doing anything, it is the precursor to becoming frozen. I am OK. This shit hurts, it will pass. I will wake up one day rejoicing in the fact i no longer have to live with constant fear anymore.
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  #75  
Old 06-12-2012, 10:55 PM
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Q
Your emotions are laid out, and they are very similar to my own. You are not alone. Love is the best thing in the world, but also the worst when it goes wrong.
If I was a gambling man, I'd put money on us both getting through our issues and living good positive futures, as we are both rational, intelligent men, albeit with broken hearts right now.
The matter of whether we end up being the primary focus of our respective loves, is another matter entirely, and one which only time will tell. Undoubtedly that's what we both want. However we can only control our own emotions, feelings, desires. Those of J & M are beyond our control.
I've opted to remove myself from J's life altogether. Drastic maybe, but necessary for me, my well being, not to mention my sanity.
A life in limbo is no good for me. It's a situation I've become all too familiar with recently, but I can't continue like this.
I'm not shutting the door completely, yet. But I will need to see some love from her soon, before it's too late.
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  #76  
Old 06-13-2012, 03:14 AM
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Well, sometimes it's helpful to take a break. I can see this in the "J situation" as well as the "M situation." There's always a chance of getting back together later on, but right now what matters is getting some stability and self-independence. I think you guys are both making the right moves for what needs to be done right now.

Re (from Questioning, Post #74):
Quote:
"I know I can change my thoughts and thus feelings, sometimes it is harder than others but the reality is I am not in a black hole, and I need never go there."
Good analogy ... a black hole is something you can't (well, going by Einstein you can't) escape once you cross the event horizon. Time and space get turned around, and the singularity becomes a fixed event in your future. But you don't have to be bound by such stringent circumstances; even though you can end up in a pretty dark place, it's still not as bad as crossing an event horizon, and there's still a way out.
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  #77  
Old 06-13-2012, 11:33 AM
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I got a very thought provoking e-mail, which corresponds to the Wayne Dyer stuff I've been listening to. The idea that pain is something to be moved away from, an indicator.

I couldn't agree more.

I think I have been 'unravelling an onion' as the cliche goes, peeling back the layers. TEA was to adress obsessive thoughts but they recurred. So I dug into the next layer, the fears under it, and this gave me some power over the obsession, as I knew it was an avoidance tactic so I didn't have to go to a 'dark place'. The dark place was a construct of thoughts, experience, worldview etc with an attached image and horrid feelings I was trying to avoid at all costs. It was actually just a warning system I was not heeding. I was taking it too easy, not taking care of my own business being too reliant on M. Taking care of my business as a man is a fundamentally different problem to polyamory, which I have a reasonable grip on now. And appetites, humans...

Taking care of my business brings me back to the pm I recieved. Pain as an indicator. The thing is, my head kept telling me everything was wrong with M in the obsession, I had to dig and find out what was being indicated. Maybe some people's heads work good and they figure this shit out easy, takes me a while

The lessons are many, these blessings in disguise.

- Don't take love for granted, period.

- take care of your own affairs.

- live in the day, and have the best day you can.

- anything is possible, all that we see that is not nature, is created through thought.

Fears are merely a warning system, the imagery attached is fictitious, made up, and analogous to the insane peeping of a smoke alarm - you just want to turn it off. To turn it off, find out where you are moving away from your true purpose, love... e.g. confronting M about the weekend scenario does not feel good, pretending nothing happened feels better, but! Fear (warning) it will leak out later. So, where is the compromise.

There is nothing wrong. I am returning to obsessive thinking as there is a job at hand to handle my business and thus my dependancy and esteem, to let the apron strings fall away and rejoice in the freedom to have my own life where anything is possible, including patching things up. Only time will tell how it ends but nothing ends in tragedy here unless I choose it to be that way, and I do not.

Anything is possible. As thought begins the processes that make things so I am now trying to move away from dwelling on problems and seeking only solutions within the realm of things I actually have some control over. This is actually fun when you get started. Me. Planning and chipping away towards a better me, for me, and whoever gets lucky in the future.

I feel love very deeply for M. This will be my guide as it feels right. Analysing this is the stuff of obsession. The universe knows, I must love unconditionally, and concentrate on loving my life regardless of who is in it. I can process pain, it's actually turning out good for me.

That's not saying I enjoy any of the pain for one second. I hate it. But I think a lot of unneccesary future pain has been nipped in the bud.

As the saying goes: Pain is inevitable, misery is optional.
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  #78  
Old 06-13-2012, 08:32 PM
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I like your points about continuing to love M, that it feels right, and that you want to love unconditionally. Who knows whether you and M will find some middle ground you can both live with and renew your relationship. But even if such middle ground never turns up, you can still love M unconditionally as a person.

I think it's good that the two of you are friends right now, and learning (or re-learning) to get comfortable with the boundaries of friendship. To have a deeper relationship, you'd need to be comfortable with her "adventures," and she'd need to be willing to compromise within your boundaries of what you could live with. If that's all very painful at this time, then at least you can still care about each other and still be friends.

I think you're a very thorough person, who wants to understand a problem completely before setting it aside. It takes longer and perhaps entails some discomfort, but like you said it may help prevent more discomfort later on. So do continue seeking the answers, just don't forget to shift gears once in awhile; as they say, "A change is as good as a rest."
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  #79  
Old 06-14-2012, 09:25 AM
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Wow. I've been spinning tonight. Feeling aggrieved for an hour all the way home I walked and stewed about M's impropriety. Then I got home and proceeded to try and 'fix it' by writing a long letter pouring my heart out, and what I know about her weekend - like a little bomb in the works - then all about how I don't care what she does - I do!

And this shit hurts, and hurt is an indicator it aint right. I'm off track. Some of the letter was reasonable prose, but it did not feel good, it is not right for me to confront M with this as she is not feeling safe about being open with me at present, and the I don't mind stuff is rubbish. I've been hassling her on facebook to come over, I got to just leave her alone.

Wasn't I planning to get a life?

The misery I put myself through in the last few hours was unneccesary, but why the obsession if I have already worked out I need to get a life? I think this time I was being warned to back off, let it go, the attachment is dragging me down. let her be free, and me, let me be free. And a gentle reminder about focus, I need to get a life, thoughts create reality, I need to be thinking about my life as I dream it will be, feeling and acting as if I am already there. Manifesting love and happiness in all that I do.

I will meet a woman who is absolutely beautiful and intelligent and fun and caring and open and wonderful to me. And I will fall head over heels in love. I will be mobile and running comedy touring with fascinating personalities and having brilliant nights regularly. I will be visiting native forests and selecting biocontrol agents. My work in stage and plant pathology will take me abroad to exciting places and my love will come with me for my income will be such that expense doesn't matter. (I'm starting to feel better now!). I will have a spell from study after my masters degree to work in the field, then hook up with a company to pay me through a doctorate. In my 60's I will become an incredible teacher, a Professor who is funny, dedicated, in love with his work. I will 'retire' as this mad professor, touring and university appointed. I will bring stage and media and passion together in such a manner I inspire the love of science (and comedy) in thousands of young minds. I may as well do a few documentaries while I'm at it!

These dreams are already in motion the wheels turn as I buff myself up with exercise, meet women regularly at university, and more with stage which begins in 3 days time! I won't be mobile for ~8 weeks that's ok. I will be in 8 weeks The degrees are shaping up nicely, the internet is filled with sage advice to learn to love myself and I am more than smart enough to check my sources. And i am learning fast! There are millions of people out there who simply love me for the fact that I am. how cool is that!

When I imagine myself in this place i work towards, as i dream, plan, work towards it, sometimes i am uncomfortable but when i focus and get it straight in my head, this is my reality, I am ok, I am loved and full of love. i love my life. i trust myself, things are great right now, this is it buddy, do your best and have the best time you can cos why the hell not.

Pain is inevitable, misery is optional.

When my thinking is focused off M and onto the other things i want, the pain simply vanishes. funny that. If i sit and wallow the pain comes along and gets HEAVY.

Let's be trying not to wallow then, aye.
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Old 06-14-2012, 07:02 PM
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Woke up head filled with poison. There are a few things I want to say to M that are better left unsaid but i feel very angry. here's what I need to express.

Fuck you for dumping me right on exams
Fuck you for lying to me all those times and treating me like an idiot
Fuck you for fobbing me off because you feel guilty
Fuck you for fucking an engaged couple cos you were all drunk and taking drugs and thought it was a good idea
Fuck you for being so selfish you risk other relationships to satisfy your cunt
Fuck you for stomping all over my heart
Fuck you for saying you don't love me and then turning up with food and sex only two days later
Fuck you for all the up-down hot-cold shit you put me through
Fuck you for kicking the crap out of my self esteem
Fuck you for all the hearts you've shit on, and continue to shit on
Fuck you for giving up on love cos it's hard work sometimes
Fuck you for being gutless

I honestly don't hate M. The mind generates all this in my sleep though. I wake up poisoned with grief and vile spite. There really is too much water under the bridge. indiscretion once or twice yes. This is repeated, premeditated a lot of the time, and nothing but lies comes of trying to adress it.

Last time polyamory came up she was in complete denial and said she's never slept round on this other guy (lie, told me already that she had), or me (another lie, again through her own admittance previously). She is full of shit at present, and I am getting fobbed off repeatedly I really need to move on, this is the thing that is keeping me stuck.

Thoughts: I will bottle all this hurt inside and it will destroy me. it is too hard to let go of M. I must hang on if there is a chance.

Errors: Many, conclusions, awfulising, global thinking, ignoring positive, bound to be more...

Analysis: I am not bottling it up, i am sharing it here so I don't need to cause any more damage, or hate myself, or sabotage. M is only human and all her stuff is her problem, it is only mine if I choose it to be. Yes this fucking hurts but I have been hurt all year by her behaviour, there has been very few happy times as she continues to ignore my boundaries, and continues to pretend there's nothing wrong. I can only save myself, I got to let go there is nothing to save there it is only the residue of feeling ripped off as I spent so much time and energy trying to fix it all. This stuff only has power over me if i think it is so. I do not want to wallow, i do not want to go backwards. i am frightened because it is very painful, this is all part of breaking up and it is perfectly normal to hurt. It is not a good option however to remain miserable all day I cannot feel bad enough to make anything better. I do not owe anybody any penance in any measure. Hanging onto M is breaking my heart repeatedly, letting go is the right thing to do for myself and her. Hanging on to here feels bad in my heart. There is nothing but hurt expectations to look forward to if i choose that route. She needs to make a paradigm shift and i am not the person to oversee that. Her life and her choices are her own, I wish she'd made better choices but she didn't. i wish i'd made better choices but i didn't. Staying in this misery, wishing, clinging on to a broken liferaft, it does me no good at all.

It hurts, it hurts like a motherfucker. I'm chain smoking again, I get exercise daily, i am eating but not much. Each day i go into uni and study with others. In a few days I will have a months time to myself. i hate this idea. i am frightened I'll just sit here and hurt. I have no money to do much else, and everyone else is working.

I need a plan. i've been smoking too much dope, and I am lonely. i think maybe i should go dope free for a while, do a bunch of meetings and explore my spiritual side. There are lunchtime meetings and evening meetings I do not have to be alone all day every day. I can walk to the meetings to get exercise, and there i meet people who care, who want me to get well, who have been through their own personal hells.

Going on holiday with M, I'll only try and win her back, then, a week later she'll fly off to be with Mark, and i will feel like shit again. This is not worth it. I do not accept this anymore I tried to meet her halfway, I asked for her to understand me and help me in those times but she did not.

I have to let go. It is not a loss so much as a regaining of my sanity, to not feel worried constantly, to not feel something is not right most of the time. to not be constantly trying to fix my thinking to accomodate a lifestyle I do not wish to be part of. I have compromised myself as i thought she was worth it but the evidence suggests otherwise. i hate being wrong. My EGO is out in force this morning - you have been wronged and hurt - lash out, hurt them, fuck them. I need to return to love, self love, and forgiveness. i'm going to go do some forgiveness EFT right now, as this bitter bile is choking my will, and it is nothing but poison.
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