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  #11  
Old 04-30-2012, 09:48 PM
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BlackMagicBlonde BlackMagicBlonde is offline
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i AM a reader; i'll check him out. thanks for the tip!
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  #12  
Old 05-01-2012, 01:42 PM
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Default test, 1 2 3....

i debated deleting - or at least editing - those last LONG posts basically explaining the mess/journey of my last two years. idk if laying it all out is TMI to anyone or not, but i appreciate being able to do that. i needed it.

so Z and i have been, since the last "big talk" and card-showing a few weeks ago, really close, and it's been great. i think we're both feeling pretty secure in the place we've both agreed to be, and now i'm feeling that inner urge to get out and test my legs some. have a pretty casual get-together with J this evening (it's a job function for him), and think i'll call an older friend for drinks and a night out downtown later this week.

sometimes i feel like i could eat Z up and lick my chops for more - it feels like it's all there, the desire, the intimacy of knowing each other, the pure animal lust, the sweetness of friendship, and i think, "wow....yeah." and then it's like my mind (programming) starts leaning toward the mono thing, trying to put what we have in a box, make it fit the old model....like, "hey...you COULD spend the rest of your life with this guy. you could make this work." and after a minute - or a day - of subconsciously herding us in that direction, projecting the possibility of the mono model on our relationship, of prepping to stuff it in that box and try to make it fit, i hear the record scratch -

WHAAAAAAAT?!?!?

"MAKE" it FIT. WTF.

i snap out of it every time, about the time i find myself getting irritated with something he has every right to do, or just some little difference between us. i find myself getting bent out of shape a little, subsequently withdrawing, and then realize, "oh - this is why our arrangement WORKS for us. this is why we have two separate households. this is another great reason we are best friends and not married, and we don't NEED to be!" etc.

once i snap out of it and settle back into being myself again instead of trying to be half of him, things improve immediately. i can't help but laugh out loud most of the time this happens.

ALSO.... "being friends", having a little more distance/space between us to let our lives move independently, letting some of the mystery live and breathe between us, not having to coordinate schedules or living quarters or tendencies, i find myself more sexually attracted to him. took me nearly 30 years to realize that i can love someone very deeply, but familiarity with that same person can really reduce arousal for me. (i couldn't even admit that to myself for a long time because i judged myself harshly for it, like there was something wrong with me - i thought i was shallow and user of people for it.)

meantime...J has hinted at taking a vacation to seattle, probably while he's on summer break. (he's a teacher.) i was immediately tempted, and immediately thought to myself that i shouldn't go; he and i still have a lot to discuss as far as the lifestyle i've chosen vs. what he wants for himself, and how Z fits into my picture as well. but...i was/am really tempted. it could be a lot of fun...maybe in 6 months, closer to my bday, and once everything has had a chance to settle a little, and all of us to acclimate....

sometimes i think too much, and miss out because i'm afraid of acting and hurting someone.
other times, i act, and ride the dragon, and have moments and experiences i'll never forget and wouldn't want to live without - but my actions cause people to hurt in the process....

i hope there's a beautiful balance. am making my own path toward that vision with open heart and careful hands and tongue....

bmb
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Old 05-11-2012, 01:58 PM
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Default still quite a friggin baby.... =/

5.11.12

FIRST: i want to say "thank you" to everybody who posts anywhere in this forum. i've been reading threads all over for a couple of months now, and it's helped me to see that the Human Spectrum is way bigger than i thought - which is really relieving in some ways.

have been reading on asexuality as much as poly lately....i think i can be asexual for weeks (maybe months) at a time, while being emotionally poly and wanting to cuddle up with two or three at a time....

_____________________________________________


so i hung out with j (the ex) last sunday. we met at our Jimmy's Egg and went back to his place after. he rode my new motorcycle, then we sat out on the back drive/porch and had beers and talked.

i asked him if he'd ever considered open relationships. his reply was basically that being with someone he wants to be with makes him feel special, and if his partner is with him one night and another person the next night, he feels way less special - sorta like one face of many...part of a harem? i understand. i knew he felt that way, and i knew that his intimate relationships are a big part of his self-confidence. (can't say mine aren't...but i swing back & forth, from being confident in my own company to being confident in identifying with a certain group or individual...if that makes any sense.)
as i understand, he's always had lower-than-average self-esteem, and he sometimes overcompensates for that by coming across as arrogant. these are my words and my opinion, but sometimes he wears a self-righteous attitude to armor and disguise his feelings of vulnerability and inferiority.

he's never looked in the mirror and seen himself as attractive, handsome, beautiful (i've always seen him as all these things, much moreso when he's happy and loving), and he's often said that our being together made him feel those things about himself - which is both good and not, i suppose.

he said sunday, "i know you're not sure what you want, and i understand you're feeling your way around right now and you don't want to hurt anybody while you're doing that. i'm not sure exactly what your circumstances are right now, and i don't think i want to...." i wondered how much i should say at that point: lay it all out for him anyway, in order to fulfill my sense of responsibility to both/all of us (me, him, Z)? or leave it where it is, and just answer questions as they're asked, or bring up specific topics as i feel the need to?

we talked about some other things, things i hadn't been able to communicate with him about when we were together, or two years ago when we were splitting up (oh, the hell of that fallout...) we decided to start all over. we're both happy where we are, with our lives, our lives & careers are on good tracks, and we each feel like (in his words) we'd be fine without the other in our lives, for the rest of our lives, but we'd be better with the other's presence - it would make the whole living experience richer, for whatever length of time it lasts as a friendship or anything else.

then we spent three hours on the couch, snuggling some and playing a video game. it was a relieving, happy, reuniting day.


now comes what i see as a problem: even though Z and i have agreed to be bestFWB, we've still spent a lot of time together in the month since, and i know that if/when i start spending more time with J or other people, it's going to sting a little. he may retreat; he may be mad or hurt; he may feel that the fact that not much has changed since the discussion meant that i didn't really want things to be the way i said i did. i know i can't do anything about how he feels except be open to and there for him.... but the fear that i'll alienate him (or fear of even just the conflict/tension it could put between us) snags at my heart and spirit. it slows me acting upon what i want, sometimes stops me altogether.

i was riding high off the feelings of freedom and joy that came when we had our talk a month or so ago, and just knowing that i had the space and "permission" to move in any direction i wanted made me float off the ground. i also felt very grateful and attached (wtf?!) to Z for being the kind of man who could hear me out, understand, and agree to let things be this way. it's like i severed a tie that ached to be cut, and now i'm leaning back toward the ball i was chained to, the freedom making me giddy and seeing him through rose-colored glasses for several weeks afterward.

now that i'm attempting to repair some connections that were severely damaged, as well as to form new ones, the experiences and feelings of expansion are often very satisfying, but i feel too like i'm leaving him behind some....

i know he would be mono and very committed to me if i chose to be the same. he is that way anyway. ("i'm pretty much a one-woman man and happy that way.") which is fine, and we aired all this a while back, but guilt has long been a big hangup for me, and i find myself choosing inertia over initiation sometimes, just so i won't hurt him ("or anyone else")....and subsequently feeling unfulfilled, stagnant, resentful, and sometimes careless as a result.

sometimes i feel like lovefromgirl said in one of her posts: "i could just be extra! and cute! you could both (all) love me if you wanted!" i wouldn't mind curling up on the rug in the living room and being petted, catlike. i could totally play house for two, three, or several, for days at a time, but not ALL the time or every day. i love serving and making people feel really good. it makes me glow. i could be your personal bartender, masseuse, dishwasher, homemaker/keeper, court composer, part-time lover, good friend, riding partner (horses, motorcycles, other things) - and i could be his and his and hers as well - and keep my own home, having as much time to myself and giving you plenty of time with other people you like and love - and be perfectly happy with my life!

better take a breath....

mostly my issue right now is how to overcome the inertia that stems from not wanting to hurt people.... i have not been a good communicator in the past, and i still have the tendency to keep my feelings to myself if i think it will influence someone i love to move in the opposite direction of me. is that an abandonment issue? i dunno.

am realizing i'm still quite a baby. =/
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  #14  
Old 05-11-2012, 02:20 PM
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hi again,

tough that J wont be okay with you being poly. that seems like the biggest issue from my perspective. You cant ever count on anyone changing for you, and you cant change anyone. So unfortunately it simply could boil down to either choosing him or choosing poly. or maybe you choose him for a while and know you are going to be poly after him. so many people are "poly" over time....e.g. they get their multiple relationships simply by having one after another but never two at the same time.

so you were with z and he would be mono with you but now you are okay being poly, and now j is there and he doesnt want u to be poly. i hate how hard it is for people to even hear about poly. the concept is just so unknown by most people.

when i met my wife i was up front with her about being poly, but the truth of it was that i wanted her more than i wanted a poly life. so i married her, but she knew my mind and respected my ideas and agreed with them in theory at least. that made me feel comfortable enough to marry her.

i couldnt imagine marrying her if she completely disagreed with my ideas. so good luck with making your decision with J. it's coming up for you again.


you could try an experiment with him. something like, "how about we try out just one or two months (you decide what you propose) of being together with me being poly, and lets see how it goes. then lets sit down and talk about everything and go from there. i dont think it will be as bad as you imagine, because im going to work very hard to show you how honest and considerate i can be about it. then when we talk at the end if it just isnt working, then revert to where you stand now with him.
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  #15  
Old 05-11-2012, 02:43 PM
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Default soup

i think the "lines" look a little clearer from the outside, Windstar, but inside it feels like a soup to me. i'm not good at distinguishing (or admitting to myself, maybe? not like i WANT to be in any kind of denial, self- or otherwise - i think it's just been a survival technique for me from very young days) the differences between how i feel for different people sometimes.

i want to be open to possibility more than i want to be "with" any person at this point.

i feel like those looking on see it as selfish and sometimes careless. i want to be neither. i don't want to hurt ANYBODY....i know, though, that people simply WILL BE HURT as a result of someone else's (or my) actions/decisions at times. it's inevitable, but the fact is that i dwell on it too much. even Z will tell me this - he is an admitted worrier, but he is also all about diving into life and living it, experiencing it, to the fullest - and i both admire him for it and remain in slight awe sometimes.

lately i find my mind centering on this question:

IF I LET GO OF EVERY "SHOULD" AND "OUGHT TO" that exerted its will inside me, and found and followed the tendencies and thread of my heart and spirit...where would i be? what would i be doing? if i ignored the fear?

going to have to find out, or stay in the hamster wheel to whatever degree.
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Old 05-20-2012, 07:52 PM
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Default could use some advice... plus: "make your own family"?

been a minute since i posted.

i move pretty slowly these days...want everybody to be on the same page if possible, no scary surprises or upsets if i/we can help it...no hurt feelings for no good reason...so (to quote TruckerPete) i'm pretty much "practicing" poly instead of living it for the time being. or maybe i should say it's more emotional and theoretical than it is physical at this point.
this being the case, i wonder if anybody cares to read the developing life story of a newbie who's still in the getting-her-toes-wet stages. i will say that it IS nice to be able to read other's blogs and threads; i appreciate the fact that all of you who do take the time out to post, and give me a chance to use your experiences as guidelines to forging my own path . *thank you*

so...J and i have been getting together for a meal and some hangtime (which includes cuddling/snuggling and plenty of affection but no sex) at least once a week for over a month now. it's been really nice. being able to do this has stemmed from my admitting that i never lost feelings for him, but just developed feelings for Z, and his admitting that he can see why i left in the first place. he said he wants to just start all over with me as friends, and although he would like for it to become more, he will take me as i come, he will be honest with me, and even though (we've recently addressed this) it makes him angry when i talk more than just surface details about Z and our relationship (best FWB at this point), he knows he needs to hear it and that we need to talk about it. he knows he needs to deal with it because it's a very real and daily part of my life and who i am.

J has not dealt with or forgiven Z (i am not sure how much needs forgiving at this point, as to my (limited) understanding, Z has both apologized and tried to give J the truth of what happened and how it happened between the two - and three - of us from day one, two-ish years ago). to J's understanding, i have shown that i value our relationship (mine & J's) because, through and beyond our messy breakup, i made and kept contact as best i could, tried to explain upon multiple occasions how and why it all happened and how i felt, showed concern for his feelings and well-being, and because he could tell how bad it all made me feel. (now, imho, J can be a bit of a passive-aggressive ego/power-player and a victim when he chooses to. it's old learned behavior that he reverts to - survival mechanism stuff. i SEE it but only choose to point it out when i feel it's necessary.) J feels that if Z truly valued their (15-ish y/o) friendship (and it WAS very close in times past), that he would feel as bad as i and basically put on sackcloth and come grovelling as well. (a slight exaggeration, but i do feel J wants a(nother) formal apology as well as possibly public acknowledgement that he was "in the right" in this whole situation - which he is not going to get from Z, and i both understand why and agree.)

Z, on the other hand, has no real animosity toward J, save that he believes (sometimes correctly) that J would like him to "die in a fiery car accident". the only thing that really makes Z prickly concerning J - and he doesn't mind being vocal about it and then getting past it - is when i occasionally compare the two of them aloud (often offhandedly). or when he used to get the vibe that i might want to go back to J and try to work out that relationship.

damn - i use a lot of parenthetical phrases. (don't i?)

so....

just this past week, i checked out "One Big Happy Family" (Rebecca Walker) and "Stranger in a Strange Land" (Heinlein *duh*). am part way thru both and very engaged in each....

am realizing that part of what i'm trying to do (subconsciously?) is to form my own family. from CHOSEN members instead of luck-of-the-draw blood kin.
don't get me wrong - i LOVE my blood family. am also glad i don't have to live with most of them. it suits me fine to go home once every couple/few months and hang out for a day or the whole weekend.

i love and greatly appreciate my roots, but i love the wings that my being an autonomic individual gives me as well. and i feel that i could not have one without the other.

i could see myself in a vee with Z and J...an arrangement that is not likely to happen, but there is always a chance. i am not putting all my eggs in that chance-basket, but i did read somewhere a quote that sticks with me:

ENCOURAGE YOUR HOPES, NOT YOUR FEARS.

i love them both as whole people, and i don't want to live with or be "wife" or even particularly "girlfriend" to either one of them (though i feel i could possibly be "girlfriend" to both of them, if we could reach such an agreement). i feel i could go a long way toward mutually loving, satisfying, and meeting needs with both of them, and getting that in return. the "feeler" part of me says that could work really well. the "thinker" part of me wonders how in the hell i came to that conclusion, seeing as how they're both admittedly mono (although each has allowed some lenience in that, simply in understanding that i feel i am NOT and in knowing that i COULD like to share - and emotionally, already am and have been all along), as well as looking at the wedge that was driven (albeit unequally) between them during the whole discovery/deceit/fallout/breakup process.

another part of it is this: i THINK i'd be fine with them each seeing/being with other people, too. i trust both to be careful with their/our health sexually, and i am comfortable with the fact that "you have to give it to get it." i think i would be fine (and maybe very happy!) meeting a metamour "belonging to" either. loving both of them (and others) deeply, similarly, with no need for qualification/quantification thereof, i think i could put myself in their shoes pretty well when coming face to face with a third (fifth?) in our party... BUT i won't know that until and unless it happens. (LOL - so let's get it happening already! ) *eager to learn*

also...i have yet to tell Z all about these feelings. he knows that i still love J, that i'll always love J and have deep feelings for him. he knows we've been hanging out much more often - and being able to do this with J has led me to feeling happier when i spend time with Z. not sure how to say it - i tend to be a beater-around-the-bush, to think too much and also provide too much information when sometimes people just need the grit and core of a topic.

do i just open it up bluntly? "you know i love you, and i want you to be happy, and i want to support you fully in living the life you most want to live. i don't want to move backwards or distance myself in any way with you, but i've been happy to hang out with J again lately, and i feel i could be very happy to be with him in some of these same ways, to be sexual again with him. but i don't want to start back up with the same kind of exclusive or (progressing-toward-exclusive) relationship we used to have. i want to love you both."

part of me rolls her eyes and gives myself a facepalm, because i'm pretty sure these are words Z has maybe been afraid of hearing from the beginning. also, as much as i guilt-trip sometimes, am feeling selfish for even thinking of asking. (though this won't stop me from barrelling through, eventually.)

thoughts?

BMB
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Old 05-20-2012, 08:21 PM
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Default could use some feedback...plus: "make your own family"?? anyone?

oh - more:

there's a gorgeous, petite, short-haired blonde poet and yoga teacher with big dark doe eyes, two beautiful kids, a newish boyfriend in the mix, and a chocolate-&-red-wine sweet singing voice who has been a growing-closer friend of mine for over a year now. she was just prior to divorcing from a 12-yr marriage and i was entering breakup/fallout mode when we met - so we were prime candidates for a fast friendship.

we are just distant enough from each others' daily lives and know very few of each other's families or "involved parties" that we can be unbiased listeners and sounding boards, so that has been really beneficial and therapeutic. by now we feel familiar with each other. last time we were together, we met up at a nearby wine bar/restaurant, and after a couple glasses of wine and a meal, we moved to the bar to listen to the local singer-songwriter doing her thing. conversation moved to areas that we hadn't really delved into previously: dalliances, shadowy relationships, experiences & questions from our past years. sharing these kinds of things with friends who are willing to be just as vulnerable and basically "tell stories" on themselves right along with you has always brought me closer to people - we each feel we trust each other with potentially sensitive information. that evening was no different.

let me put this out there: i've never been sexually attracted to a woman. blown away by a woman's beauty, and/or confidence, or power, or a combo of all the above? sure. bi-amorous? possibly. bisexual? probably not.

so...i'll call her Sprite, because she's TINY - probably 30lbs less and a foot shorter (no exaggeration) than i am. we've had a few glasses of wine and are starting on our second beers. Sprite leans back on me and casually puts an elbow on my leg, letting her weight rest backwards on me while engaged in observing the singer. (we both write and sing, we have that very much in common.) minute or two later, she pulls upright and sips her beer. we share a joke & laugh about something. later, more of the same. her hand rests on my leg, warmly. we leave the bar, and neither of us is done for the night. while we walk to the car, deciding where to go next, she reaches out for my hand and laces her fingers in mine, smiling at me. not trying to be subtle or testing the waters, just an "i'm with you; let's go" type of gesture.

me, i love it. but i'm also nervous. like, what does she think, what does she want, what do i do, what do i want, what do i think, what am i doing?! type of nervous. (LOL, i know. i'm a moron.) so we wind up at a retro-lounge where one of my friends is playing, and she loves it. we have so much fun, dancing and goofing off together. and later she wants to kiss me. i feel like, "why not?!" but i'm so used to kissing a man that i feel i'm rough and a little messy. i've made out with a woman a couple of times, but it was always semi-drunken experimentation. (i'm sure that's what this SOUNDS like at this point.) afterwards, i blubber, "i'm sorry, i really don't know what i'm doing." tell her i feel protective of her but not possessive at all, that she's beautiful, that i love hanging out with her, that it feels great when she gives me those "i'm with you" signals when we spend an evening together.

she basically tells me that she's never been with a woman, but the ways we are connecting that night just feel natural to her with me, and if it freaks me out, we don't need to go there, she just likes hanging with me, period. it can be whatever we want it to be. i think we both end the night really happy and having had fun together. LOL at least i did!

we close the bar down and go to our respective homes. she texts me when she gets home at my request, so i'll know she's home safe.

next day, i tell Z about it. he's known all along we have some kind of little "thing" for each other, and also that i don't particularly feel a sexual attraction to her, but some strong feelings of other sorts, that i really care about her. when i tell him we kissed, i feel him stiffen. he asks who initiated it. (lol - boys.) it was mutual, i say. tell him all about it, and i feel him relax. we laugh about it afterwards, and as far as i can tell at this point, he doesn't feel any threat at the thought of Sprite. now i find myself wondering if he's got threesomes on his mind....

anyway - i had to share that. it was a very cool night.
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Old 05-27-2012, 04:31 PM
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Default so.

an old interest comes back into the picture. it's making me think. more.

i've had "daddy issues" (not severe or debilitating, by any means) forever. so what. but am trying to figure out why i want the lifestyle i want.

more emotio-intellectual retching...most of this is stream-of-consciousness and possibly just fantasy. but i'm going to fantasize out loud, on-page anyway.

it seems there's a thread of sexual possibility in most friendships i have. but i don't want to fuck every friend i have. but i want to feel that i COULD fuck any friend i have (if it was mutual) without royally pissing off anyone super-important to me. if a connection naturally extends into sexuality, cool.

i don't want to settle down with one. or twenty. i want to be a part of twenty's lives - male and female - and still have room for more. sexually and nonsexually.

i also want to sleep close at night to one (or in the middle of two! whom) i trust and love. not always, but a lot of nights.

i wish all the people i loved could just be one big tribe. for a lot of my life, i've dreamed of having a community-living situation made up of artists & musicians.... like, one MASSIVE house on fifty acres in which we each have rooms, live as democratically as possible, and in/from which a lot of really creative stuff gets brought into the world. more recently i think it would be better to have a lot of very small houses on a mile section out in the boondocks somewhere....

i don't think i want ONE partner. i want plenty of lovers, friends, and companions, and to be able to show them love and be shown the same without anybody freaking out. and not worry about anybody dictating to any of us where lines should be drawn. i LIKE the lines being fuzzy! or maybe there doesn't even have to be a line in the first place.

personal boundaries are cool (necessary). imposed lines/rules are not.

i think part of my longtime need for a lot of time to myself comes from feeling these ways, wanting these things, and stuffing a lot of that way down because it wouldn't fly with so many of the people making up my daily life. i'm coming to care less and less lately. it feels good to care less about what people think of me or the things i like/want, but i can still freak out once in a while if i feel i'm being abandoned by someone(s) important to me because they don't like some way that i am.

does anyone else feel any of this "tribal-want" stuff?

i think it was in one of Redpepper's posts that she described having all "her people" out on the back porch together at once, a moment she once thought couldn't happen - but once she stood there witnessing it, in the middle of it....pure bliss.

*wistful sigh* yeah, something very much like that. i could be a very happy cat on a rug in a house often full of people i love coming and going, as they pleased.

sooo....i'm crazy, right?
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Old 05-28-2012, 08:36 AM
JaneQSmythe JaneQSmythe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackMagicBlonde View Post
does anyone else feel any of this "tribal-want" stuff?
Yes. (although my fantasy tribe is different than yours)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackMagicBlonde View Post
sooo....i'm crazy, right?
No. (Well, not from what you've written here any way!)
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Me: poly bi female, in an "open-but-not-looking" Vee-plus with -
MrS: hetero polyflexible male, live-in husband (21+ yrs)
Dude: hetero poly male, live-in boyfriend (3+ yrs) and MrS's best friend
Lotus: poly bi female, "it's complicated" relationships with Dude/JaneQ/MrS (1+ years)
TT: poly male, married to Lotus, FB with JaneQ
VV and MsJ: bi-women with male primaries, LTR LDR FWBs to JaneQ


My poly blogs here:
The Journey of JaneQSmythe
The Notebook of JaneQSmythe
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Old 05-28-2012, 01:43 PM
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heh....thanks, JQ.
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