Polyamory.com Forum  

Go Back   Polyamory.com Forum > Polyamory > General Poly Discussions

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #41  
Old 03-05-2010, 03:18 PM
Ceoli Ceoli is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: London, UK
Posts: 900
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by YGirl View Post
Really. We could do that too. "some" people wouldn't like it and they would leave. How DO we please all of the people all of the time? No matter what we do, someone will have a problem with it. And people will moan about how "it's the MODERATORS, they're a little CLIQUE on a POWER TRIP.

Too bad, so sad. I'm a moderator, so HA-ha. This is MY playing field. I decide the double standards.

That's what people are thinking, so why not just come out and say it? I LOVE oppressing all of you. Then I go home and oppress my cats.
This is a culture issue, not a moderator issue.

One thing I would like to see is moderations happening on a more transparent level rather than things being deleted and edited behind the scenes. I'd rather see posts moderated on thread with moderators posting the issues on the thread, but honestly, that's neither here nor there.

I've never said, "I'm disappointed in the moderators of this forum". I've said I'm disappointed in the culture of this forum. Big difference.
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 03-05-2010, 03:40 PM
Ravenesque's Avatar
Ravenesque Ravenesque is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: New York
Posts: 297
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceoli View Post
This is a culture issue, not a moderator issue.
I agree. A culture issue which encompasses the moderators as well as the members.

~Raven~
__________________
Are you a polyamorist or non-monogamous individual between the ages 18-35? Are you located in New York State or the Northeast?
Join us at The Network, a social and socially aware network which connects young polys and progressive polys of all ages.



~Open up your mind and let me step inside.
Rest your weary head and let your heart decide. It's so easy.
When you know the rules.
It's so easy. All you have to do is fall in love.
Play the game.
Everybody play the game of love. Yeah...~
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 03-05-2010, 04:55 PM
GroundedSpirit GroundedSpirit is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: New England USA
Posts: 1,231
Default Ahhhhhhhhhh

I feel the LOVE here !

GS
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 03-07-2010, 12:55 AM
classycaveman's Avatar
classycaveman classycaveman is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Toronto
Posts: 82
Default Pardon my smugness...

Well, as a relatively new member here I don't have a whole lot invested in this forum, and after reading this thread, (and Joreth's link) I know not to take anything or anyone here too seriously. It's amazing how much your opinion of people can change between reading their carefully thought out posts and the more emotionally-driven ones that I've seen here. For some of you, I've gained respect, and for others, I've lost it. But that's life. Thanks for being real, all of you. I'm looking forward to getting to know you all better as time goes on.
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 03-08-2010, 08:10 AM
redpepper's Avatar
redpepper redpepper is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Canada
Posts: 7,660
Default

fuuuuuuck, have I missed a lot in having a life off line. geeeeezuz!

Just for the record, when Mono posted last on here it was after a phone call to me. I told him that in my opinion there was really no point in continuing to chat about what people think he said. We have things to take care of in our real lives... could you concentrate on that please.... he agreed with me and we went on to deal with other issues in real life.

It's all so verbal on here. Really, where there is no body language and context to a persons real life, no one fully knows for certain the nature in which someone says something.

Mono was simply saying he was off now as he found that he couldn't get into anything right now and was unable to go on for post after post at the moment. It was more of a, "okay then, well, that's it for me.... talk to you later..." thing, rather than... a "I have a hidden agenda to be passive aggressive towards anyone who disagrees with me."

I really think it comes down to the fact that I need people to have an open mind about others on here and realizing they are on a path to self discovery. Also that we don't all have time or energy to wade through other peoples emotional stuff. We all have lives and are all finding where we fit in the world...

By the way, as a new moderator, I can tell you that it seems most of our conversations thus far revolve around whether or not our policies have been broken or not and what we can do to accommodate everyone. No secret there, it's our job.... but then why should you trust me?
__________________
Anyone want to be friends on Facebook?
Send me your name via PM
My blog
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 03-08-2010, 03:16 PM
Rarechild's Avatar
Rarechild Rarechild is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SW Michigan
Posts: 600
Default

Really, the only thing Joreth got points for- (not banned, first time she ever got points) is for saying "fuck you". That happened to fall under a category. It was not written for this instance. We have no "you said fuck you" category. It falls under unnecessary hostile behavior. That being said, a group of people from all over the world who have volunteered to spend time on this forum making it a safe place for everyone talked at length about the situation and made a judgement call in light of the forum rules. Also synchronized our schedules for an international conference call to further discuss this and other issues.

We moderate for identifiable content that violates forum rules. Passive-aggressiveness and oppression can not be clearly identified as we all know that text leaves much to the imagination, and you can read it over and over and form almost any opinion of intent.

I'm offended now, personally, because I have been personally attacked- for real now-there are only just us specific people that everyone is aware of-as one of the moderators. But I am not going to cut out posts because of it. I'm offended because I feel like this is what some are implying about all of the time we take and work we do to make this forum a special place, which I believe it is, unlike LJ, FB, bleh.

I feel like writing expletives in a hostile tone all the time, especially when someone takes issue with a very straightforward, identifiable violation of forum rules and turns it into dominant culture oppressing the powerless. Guess what, though- I don't because it's disrespectful and hinders clear communication.

Moderators have made mistakes. I have made mistakes. That is why there are several people moderating- we call each other out on faulty interpretation of the rules all the time. We are a diverse group of people that have come and gone in the short time the forum has been up. Our membership is awesome. We are #4 in google for keyword "polyamory". Thousands of people are reading your posts, people. There are probably just as many perceptions of whatever you say.

I will continue to do my best knowing that our forum changes people's lives all the time, starts a thought process that frees them somehow. No apologies for that.
-R

P.S. You're all awesome-debate on. Just give the guidelines another read, will you please?
__________________
"Rocks will open and make a way for the lover."
~Hazrat Inayat Khan


I love Catfish and Charlie.

Last edited by Rarechild; 03-08-2010 at 03:17 PM. Reason: having a scattered day
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 03-08-2010, 03:29 PM
NeonKaos NeonKaos is offline
Custodian
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: new england
Posts: 3,223
Default

As part of the "dominant, oppressive culture" on this forum, I would like to point out that the moderators hardly ever "unapprove" posts or issue "infractions" beyond straightforward banning of spam(mers). Since I have been a moderator, there have been maybe 3 or 4 times that a "real" post has gotten "moderated" (that I can remember) and I know at least 2 of them have been resolved with an "oops, sorry, I'll remember to be more careful from now on".

The suggestion that the moderators here (myself, rarechild, redpepper, and Imaginary Illusion) are a bunch of dictators who go around bullying the weak and "squelching" those who dare to disagree with us or our "clique" on the issues that are being discussed/argued is patently untrue.

That is all I have to say about it. If anyone out there disagrees with me about this, I'll refer you to the signature file I use on another forum:

"Just because you disagree with me doesn't make me any less right."

ETA: I am very impressed by the fact that the moderators don't have to step in more often. I tend to have faith (in spite of myself) that people can work things out for themselves, and that is usually what happens, regardless of any real-or-perceived "passive-aggressiveness".

Last edited by NeonKaos; 03-08-2010 at 03:39 PM. Reason: add post script
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 03-08-2010, 03:53 PM
GroundedSpirit GroundedSpirit is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: New England USA
Posts: 1,231
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by redsirenn View Post
2) Debating how their post came across can hijack a thread and make people feel unwelcome.
...................
There are people on here that are trying to utilize this forum to help progress them through personal and heartbreaking decisions. The energy is better used there, IMHO.

Why don't we, as a community, try to give people the benefit of the doubt, including our moderators, unless something is CLEARLY worth the effort of a million posts?
I wasn't going to get involved in this whole thing but what RS has pointed to here kind of leans in the direction of my thinking.

What IS the purpose of this forum ?

Now personally, I kind of assumed it was to help each other out, share success and failure stories that can be enlightening, and to have that all serve as a resource for new folks who are just discovering polyamory and trying to get some feel for what it might be like in practice rather than theory.

For that reason I feel it's important to stay away from personal conflict, ideologies, agendas etc, ESPECIALLY in a thread that is started with a particular topic.

It really has little value in most cases, is distracting, discouraging (especially to new members or visitors).

If anyone feels there is real value in some of this, what can be just nasty & petty, back and forth debate, I say "take it outside" ! Start a new thread in the Misc area or something then bring back the results of the debate (if applicable) to the original topic after you iron our your personal issues. Or just take it private ?

Somehow I just can't get my head around how allowing a Jerry Springer flavor to the whole board benefits it (the board) or anyone stopping by.
But maybe that's the "culture". All about entertainment value.

But if that's the course it takes I will expect the board to lose relevancy and soon disappear. And that to me is sad. Because there's a lot of great, knowledgeable people here that have a lot to offer.

Oh well............

GS
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 03-08-2010, 04:07 PM
CielDuMatin's Avatar
CielDuMatin CielDuMatin is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Upstate New York, USA
Posts: 1,456
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GroundedSpirit View Post
I kind of assumed it was to help each other out, share success and failure stories that can be enlightening, and to have that all serve as a resource for new folks who are just discovering polyamory and trying to get some feel for what it might be like in practice rather than theory.
Yes, GS, that's the reason I joined this forum (and why I joined and/or started every poly forum/board/group I have been on). I think that most of them definitely serve (or served) that purpose, too.

It's been interesting to watch the dynamics on this and other fora - the different personalities and the consistent way that discussions involving those personalities develop.
__________________
Please check out The Birdcage - an open, friendly Polyamory forum for all parts of New York State
http://www.thebirdcage.org/

"Listen, or your tongue will make you deaf." - Native American Proverb
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 03-08-2010, 09:02 PM
Ceoli Ceoli is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: London, UK
Posts: 900
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by redpepper View Post
Just for the record, when Mono posted last on here it was after a phone call to me. I told him that in my opinion there was really no point in continuing to chat about what people think he said. We have things to take care of in our real lives... could you concentrate on that please.... he agreed with me and we went on to deal with other issues in real life.

It's all so verbal on here. Really, where there is no body language and context to a persons real life, no one fully knows for certain the nature in which someone says something.

Mono was simply saying he was off now as he found that he couldn't get into anything right now and was unable to go on for post after post at the moment. It was more of a, "okay then, well, that's it for me.... talk to you later..." thing, rather than... a "I have a hidden agenda to be passive aggressive towards anyone who disagrees with me."
We all have other issues in real life. However, when I post something on this forum that has bothered or offended someone and they make that known to me, I at least extend that person the courtesy of engaging that issue with the person. It may be just to defend that point, but I will never dismiss their issue and/or accuse them of "creating negativity" for having problems with what I've said. Mono has often dismissed such issues in that very way, which is why it was easy to assume that he was doing the very same thing in the post in question. I often see that courtesy demanded but not extended. Everyone's free to respond or not respond however they like. And I'm free to have my opinion of that.


Quote:
Originally Posted by redpepper View Post
I really think it comes down to the fact that I need people to have an open mind about others on here and realizing they are on a path to self discovery. Also that we don't all have time or energy to wade through other peoples emotional stuff. We all have lives and are all finding where we fit in the world...
Yep. Yet when a persons hard earned point of view and experience challenges or clashes with the popular opinion, my experience has been that that person gets accused of creating too much friction and discussions quickly degenerate. And that person is often viewed as the reason for the degeneration. (at least that's been my own personal experience)



Quote:
Originally Posted by Rarechild View Post
Really, the only thing Joreth got points for- (not banned, first time she ever got points) is for saying "fuck you". That happened to fall under a category. It was not written for this instance. We have no "you said fuck you" category. It falls under unnecessary hostile behavior.
Joreth never made any claim of being banned. She did speak of her post being blocked. In the letter addressed to her from ImaginaryIllusion, the following was stated:

Quote:
You have been warned in the past for similar behavior.
As such, I am issuing a 6-pt Infraction for Flaming & Creating a Hostile Atmosphere.

This is half the allowable amount for infraction points, and will result in the staff asking you to leave the board if this occurs again.

This infraction is also a warning that is not limited to direct cases of flaming, but also other behaviors such as running roughshod over other discussions or argumentum ad nauseam.
That last bit I bolded is quite a bit more vague than the reason her post was actually moderated and suggests an issue of style more than anything else. Especially since she was responding to the same things being brought up over and over in that particular thread. And it's fair enough that her post was moderated for hostile language, however, it might have been a bit more of a balanced approach if the repeated insult that she was responding to was at least acknowledged. I don't know and I don't presume to tell anyone how to moderate. I'm just giving my perspective in that case.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rarechild View Post
That being said, a group of people from all over the world who have volunteered to spend time on this forum making it a safe place for everyone talked at length about the situation and made a judgement call in light of the forum rules. Also synchronized our schedules for an international conference call to further discuss this and other issues.
That's fantastic that you choose to do that...but it is indeed your choice. I've moderated on other forums and it's a thankless job most of the time. But the fact that I did it didn't lend me any more moral weight because it was my choice to do so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rarechild View Post
We moderate for identifiable content that violates forum rules. Passive-aggressiveness and oppression can not be clearly identified as we all know that text leaves much to the imagination, and you can read it over and over and form almost any opinion of intent.
Which is why I've repeatedly stated that this is a culture issue, not a moderator issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rarechild View Post
I'm offended now, personally, because I have been personally attacked- for real now-there are only just us specific people that everyone is aware of-as one of the moderators. But I am not going to cut out posts because of it. I'm offended because I feel like this is what some are implying about all of the time we take and work we do to make this forum a special place, which I believe it is, unlike LJ, FB, bleh.
In making this forum a "special place" it has become an unwelcome place for many people. I'm sorry you feel personally offended by the issues brought up, though I'm not sure what you think people are implying about moderators here.



Quote:
Originally Posted by YGirl View Post
The suggestion that the moderators here (myself, rarechild, redpepper, and Imaginary Illusion) are a bunch of dictators who go around bullying the weak and "squelching" those who dare to disagree with us or our "clique" on the issues that are being discussed/argued is patently untrue.
Suggesting that there is an unclear standard and that the community tends to apply double standards based on what's popular and what isn't even close to the same as suggesting that moderators are a bunch of dictators on some power trip. If that's what you're reading from what's been discussed on this thread then it's clear that the point is going to be lost.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GroundedSpirit View Post
Now personally, I kind of assumed it was to help each other out, share success and failure stories that can be enlightening, and to have that all serve as a resource for new folks who are just discovering polyamory and trying to get some feel for what it might be like in practice rather than theory.

For that reason I feel it's important to stay away from personal conflict, ideologies, agendas etc, ESPECIALLY in a thread that is started with a particular topic.

It really has little value in most cases, is distracting, discouraging (especially to new members or visitors).
If a person is going to insert personal conflict into what someone writes, they're just going to. There is a difference between holding someone accountable and personal conflict. When things are written here that contain inaccurate assumptions about an identity I share or claim, I will most definitely call that out. I usually make it a point to point out (and as Joreth also pointed out) that the offense may not have been intended, but it is there nonetheless. The atmosphere of this forum makes that a difficult thing to do indeed.


Quote:
Originally Posted by GroundedSpirit View Post
Somehow I just can't get my head around how allowing a Jerry Springer flavor to the whole board benefits it (the board) or anyone stopping by.
But maybe that's the "culture". All about entertainment value.
What is your entertainment is someone else's hard-earned experience. The Jerry Springer atmosphere tends to come from lack of respect for that and a tendency to take things people write here WAAAY too personally (which tends to be where discussions degenerate into a "he said she said" game)



Quote:
Originally Posted by GroundedSpirit View Post
But if that's the course it takes I will expect the board to lose relevancy and soon disappear. And that to me is sad.
This board has already lost relevancy to a lot of people because of this constant pattern.

I'm really to the point of pondering the relevancy it has for me.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 07:24 AM.