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  #31  
Old 03-05-2010, 05:21 AM
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LovingRadiance LovingRadiance is offline
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Schroding-
I agree. Very much so, would love to talk with you more in the days ahead.
Nice to meet you.
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  #32  
Old 03-05-2010, 06:36 AM
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redsirenn redsirenn is offline
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Dude.
OK. I don't think I have ever jumped on the bandwagon for any of these heated and sidetracking debates... but here ya go.


I totally agree with the fact that threads get side tracked... kinda similar to how this one is going after mono said "some" of the good ones.

I took that to mean that there are LOTS of good ones on here! And there are!

IT's FRUSTRATING.

So, I am only commenting on this thread for a couple of reasons.

1) It is hard to read the mood, intent, etc. of a person through text. Things get misinterpreted easily. So, really, it's best to always give someone the benefit of the doubt in how they meant their post to come across.

2) Debating how their post came across can hijack a thread and make people feel unwelcome.

3) Y girl spends time on here moderating for us, as do others. I try to give her the benefit of the doubt too. It is hard to interpret posts, but when some one uses plain English in a blatantly derogatory way, I can totally understand how a line can be clearly drawn for a moderator.

Personally - and I said personally, and I am putting myself out there for the same attack - it is not worth debating what "some" (for example) means!
There are people on here that are trying to utilize this forum to help progress them through personal and heartbreaking decisions. The energy is better used there, IMHO.

Why don't we, as a community, try to give people the benefit of the doubt, including our moderators, unless something is CLEARLY worth the effort of a million posts?
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  #33  
Old 03-05-2010, 07:15 AM
booklady78 booklady78 is offline
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Here, here redsirenn!
There can be a fine line between debating and arguing sometimes and without the cues of intonation and body language, online forums are not always the best venues.
I respect those who try and avoid getting dragged into these vicious circles of trying to 'explain' or 'clarify' an opinion ad nauseum. Because let's face it my friends, some things posted on here are opinion, not fact. Everyone is a product of their own experiences and while you may not agree, it's not always the responsibility of the holder of an opinion to prove or explain it to anyone. Can that be frustrating? Sure it can, but attacking or feeling entitled to an explanation doesn't establish a dialogue, it may instead create a hostile environment that is intimidating and unproductive.
I also felt hesitation to jump into this topic, however I felt a need to express my support for the lovely, positive people that I have come to admire and respect on this forum.
I have read comments that I may not have agreed with, but I'm frequently blown away by how well spoken and respectful many members are. The majority of members I have 'bantered' with have been supportive and insightful.
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  #34  
Old 03-05-2010, 08:48 AM
Ceoli Ceoli is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redsirenn View Post
I totally agree with the fact that threads get side tracked... kinda similar to how this one is going after mono said "some" of the good ones.

I took that to mean that there are LOTS of good ones on here! And there are!
I don't think of it as a sidetrack because it did get to the heart of the issue of why Joreth left. She didn't leave because of being moderated on one post, she left because "the community" in general seems to hold a double standard that favors passive aggressive insulting behavior and Mono's post was indicative of that.

Even if there are LOTS of good ones, it implies that there are SOME not good ones and the standard by which that is determined by the culture of this forum is spurious at best. And the environment that is created for people who fall on the wrong side of that spurious, unclear and sometimes hypocritical standard can indeed be hostile, as Joreth experienced and as I've experienced. That's not about the specific actions of the moderators but about the general culture of this forum.


Quote:
Originally Posted by redsirenn View Post
IT's FRUSTRATING.
Yep it is. And that's why I'm taking the time to express my own feelings of frustration from my own experiences on this forum in the section of this forum that is designed for people to be able to express their feelings.
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  #35  
Old 03-05-2010, 01:32 PM
NeonKaos NeonKaos is offline
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You people are not ready to handle it if I were to pull out all the stops and totally be myself, no-holds-barred, 110%.

But if that is what everyone wants, I'd be prepared to do it. Let's just say whatever comes to mind, no brain-to-mouth filter. That is what Joreth started this thread for (O heaven forbid I'm TELLING you what you THINK and FEEL, Joreth, or whatever your real name 'S' is)? We might as well run with this.

At this very moment we are discussing implementing a system to accommodate for those who want to have "heated" and/or "personal" BS sessions (I use the term "BS session" in the most casual way - i belong to another forum that revolves around camping and when we get together over the winter without camping we call it a "BS session" because it is not fiocused around our main common activity). Olivier wants to make this serve as many audiences as possible, without preferentially catering to one particular subset. I reminded him that you can't please all of the people all of the time. I belong to a CF rant-forum where "anything goes" and there are people who have a problem with THAT because it's an "unwelcoming" or "hostile" environment. Someone's always going to find something wrong when it's not "their" playground.

Oh and speaking of "playground" or more specifically "playing field"... Since we're being completely candid - Raven, this post http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showp...7&postcount=19 just reeks of moderator-envy. Grow the fuck up.

Your turn. It's all good.

Last edited by NeonKaos; 03-05-2010 at 01:38 PM.
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  #36  
Old 03-05-2010, 02:58 PM
Ceoli Ceoli is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YGirl View Post
At this very moment we are discussing implementing a system to accommodate for those who want to have "heated" and/or "personal" BS sessions (I use the term "BS session" in the most casual way - i belong to another forum that revolves around camping and when we get together over the winter without camping we call it a "BS session" because it is not fiocused around our main common activity). Olivier wants to make this serve as many audiences as possible, without preferentially catering to one particular subset. I reminded him that you can't please all of the people all of the time. I belong to a CF rant-forum where "anything goes" and there are people who have a problem with THAT because it's an "unwelcoming" or "hostile" environment. Someone's always going to find something wrong when it's not "their" playground.
I'm not talking about implementing any "systems" at all. I'm talking about my own frustrations with the culture of this forum. I don't know of any "system" you could implement to change a culture. I'm not talking about catering to the ranters. I'm talking about the double standards I constantly see here and this seeming need protect a certain culture and how, in my opinion (and the opinion of others), that fierce protection creates a space where open honest discussion just can't happen.
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  #37  
Old 03-05-2010, 03:04 PM
booklady78 booklady78 is offline
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I'm trying to understand how expressing a vague opinion about 'some' people, underlined or whatever, translates into this huge insulting & agressive behaviour? Isn't Mono entitled to express an opinion without having to justify it? He feels a certain way about 'some' people leaving, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with it that.
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  #38  
Old 03-05-2010, 03:10 PM
NeonKaos NeonKaos is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceoli View Post
I'm not talking about implementing any "systems" at all. I'm talking about my own frustrations with the culture of this forum. I don't know of any "system" you could implement to change a culture. I'm not talking about catering to the ranters. I'm talking about the double standards I constantly see here and this seeming need protect a certain culture and how, in my opinion (and the opinion of others), that fierce protection creates a space where open honest discussion just can't happen.
So how would you suggest going about achieving that? Let everyone say "Fuck you", "fuck you two times", "a THOUSAND TIMES FUCK YOU". "Fuck yo' mama". "Don't you DARE talk that way about my mama!"

Really. We could do that too. "some" people wouldn't like it and they would leave. How DO we please all of the people all of the time? No matter what we do, someone will have a problem with it. And people will moan about how "it's the MODERATORS, they're a little CLIQUE on a POWER TRIP.

Too bad, so sad. I'm a moderator, so HA-ha. This is MY playing field. I decide the double standards.

That's what people are thinking, so why not just come out and say it? I LOVE oppressing all of you. Then I go home and oppress my cats.
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  #39  
Old 03-05-2010, 03:13 PM
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Ravenesque Ravenesque is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SchrodingersCat View Post
But there most definitely are techniques you can learn to choose to feel a certain way. It's definitely not easy, it doesn't come overnight or without a lot of practice and careful self-examination. You have to constantly monitor your thoughts. But I know it can be done, because I've learned to do it.

I know that the internet is full of real people, and I try to respect this. But I find that when I'm coping with how other people behave online, it's much easier to think of them as strangers with whom I have no vested interest. That way I don't take their words personally unless specifically adressed to me by name. And if someone does attack me personally by name, I prefer to treat them as a dumb jerk trying to prove some stupid point rather than to get all offended and hurt.
Putting this in context and keeping on subject, how would this address perpetuating hurtful behavior which is sanctioned as necessary by many within the poly community in regards to primary/secondary dynamics?

I do not see how choosing not to care or feel anything about the oppression people face would be beneficial. I do not see how seeing individuals online as "strangers" and not human beings that are part of the same inter-related web I am apart of would be beneficial either.

I choose not to be apathetic. I choose to acknowledge the interconnected nature of life and the fact that my actions effect others as their actions effect me.

I see a value system of choosing to cut ourselves off from people emotionally and viewing them as "strangers" therefore not deserving of compassion and empathy as part of the reason why this environment is seen as hostile.

Quote:
Originally Posted by YGirl View Post
At this very moment we are discussing implementing a system to accommodate for those who want to have "heated" and/or "personal" BS sessions (I use the term "BS session" in the most casual way - i belong to another forum that revolves around camping and when we get together over the winter without camping we call it a "BS session" because it is not fiocused around our main common activity). Olivier wants to make this serve as many audiences as possible, without preferentially catering to one particular subset. I reminded him that you can't please all of the people all of the time. I belong to a CF rant-forum where "anything goes" and there are people who have a problem with THAT because it's an "unwelcoming" or "hostile" environment. Someone's always going to find something wrong when it's not "their" playground.

Oh and speaking of "playground" or more specifically "playing field"... Since we're being completely candid - Raven, this post http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showp...7&postcount=19 just reeks of moderator-envy. Grow the fuck up.

Your turn. It's all good.
Drop the egotism YGirl. You show a disturbing need to take your own "advice" if you really believe "envy" of you being "moderator" is the root of the issues being raised here. How does wrapping yourself up in an inflated sense of self address the issues being raised?

It is being asked that all members be treated with a fair and open hand and that inconsistencies be addressed.

There is an un-level field for discussion of poly issues and poly experiences being allowed within this forum. On topic poly issues not ranting. A blind eye being turned from the behavior of some because their opinion is favored does not encourage a welcoming environment. It has been pointed out over and over through the experiences of different members. The question then becomes "is there a real interest in creating a welcoming environment as has been stated?"

But hey, maybe it's all being imagined because we are all so full up on moderator-envy. Fucking wow.

~Raven~
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  #40  
Old 03-05-2010, 03:15 PM
Ceoli Ceoli is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by booklady78 View Post
I'm trying to understand how expressing a vague opinion about 'some' people, underlined or whatever, translates into this huge insulting & agressive behaviour? Isn't Mono entitled to express an opinion without having to justify it? He feels a certain way about 'some' people leaving, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with it that.
Yep. Everyone's entitled to their own opinions. Trouble is it often feels like some people are more entitled than others. Apparently expressing opinions is fine, unless a critical mass disagrees with your "opinion". And forget about calling into question anyone else's opinions, even if those opinions start making assumptions about other people's identities and experiences. Because if you were to call that stuff out, then you're not contributing positively to the community.

I don't know...perhaps I'm full of shit. I'm just talking about my own frustrations from my own experiences after almost a year of being an active member of this forum.
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