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  #71  
Old 03-11-2012, 08:53 PM
KyleKat KyleKat is offline
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Originally Posted by nycindie View Post
I know this is a forum, I know tone gets misconstrued, and I'm not arguing anything. I'm discussing and sharing my viewpoints and opinions. SoCalDoc responded to my post and I saw that my words had been misunderstood, so I clarified. You responded to me earlier, and I clarified. It's a conversation. People post, other people respond, it goes back and forth like that. Anybody here can add to the thread and follow tangents (if not too far off), even if it gets heated and emotional, as long as it's respectful. If you want to have control over a thread, you can ask the Moderators to move it to the Blogs and Life Stories forum, where debate is not allowed.
I don't think that's necessary. I just meant that sometimes its best to just let it go. You'll notice I said "you and I" instead of just "you". From now on I'll let you do your thing without interference.
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Kyle: 27 year old male
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Kids: girl: 5 years old, boy: 3 years old
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  #72  
Old 03-12-2012, 01:42 AM
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Arrowbound Arrowbound is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KyleKat View Post
To him, and most men, it is. Read what I put a few posts back. That's how a lot of people feel.
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Originally Posted by SoCalDoc View Post
"But... why did you get married planning to 'share' your wife with other women? That's completely different?"

I acknowledged that this may seem like a contradiction--perhaps it is. Few things... First of all, my wife just recently discovered that she's bi, so this wasn't part of the "plan" when we got married. In fact, up until very recently I never would have imagined that we would someday consider opening up our marriage. Secondly, there's a big difference--this is just my own opinion--between my wife having a poly relationship w another woman versus another man. Both involve risks, but I'm willing to accept the risks and potential threat of a same sex relationship because another woman offers my wife something which I simply cannot. BTW, my wife and I are working through this, and we haven't yet reached a decision. She's trying to sort out how strongly she desires a bi relationship, and whether this desire might rise to the level of "need".
To be honest I just see it as something to work through on both your parts. Another man still wouldn't be you; he still wouldn't be bringing the exact same things or qualities into the relationship that you do in your marriage. But it definitely takes time to get there.
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  #73  
Old 03-12-2012, 05:47 AM
ThatGirlInGray ThatGirlInGray is offline
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Just to bring a different point of view to the same-sex vs opposite-sex conversation, MC has always been of the opinion that, if he were going to worry about me leaving him for someone else, he'd be MORE worried about me leaving him for a woman BECAUSE of the differences and the feeling that she might be able to provide something he can't. Thankfully he isn't threatened by my relationships with either gender, but we'd have a serious problem if he felt threatened by other guys, since it's usually easier for me to make friends with guys than girls so most of my relationships tend to be with men.

I completely understand people who say, "I have a different relationship with my boyfriend than I do with my girlfriend." But those who say that or feel like that is the "norm" or standard need to realize that ALL relationships are different, regardless of the presence or absence of the Y chromosome or a penis.

Kyle, only 2 more days! (Less, depending on what time she gets back) Take a deep breath, remember you did a good job and you made it!
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  #74  
Old 03-12-2012, 06:17 AM
KyleKat KyleKat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arrowbound View Post
To be honest I just see it as something to work through on both your parts. Another man still wouldn't be you; he still wouldn't be bringing the exact same things or qualities into the relationship that you do in your marriage. But it definitely takes time to get there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatGirlInGray View Post
Just to bring a different point of view to the same-sex vs opposite-sex conversation, MC has always been of the opinion that, if he were going to worry about me leaving him for someone else, he'd be MORE worried about me leaving him for a woman BECAUSE of the differences and the feeling that she might be able to provide something he can't. Thankfully he isn't threatened by my relationships with either gender, but we'd have a serious problem if he felt threatened by other guys, since it's usually easier for me to make friends with guys than girls so most of my relationships tend to be with men.

I completely understand people who say, "I have a different relationship with my boyfriend than I do with my girlfriend." But those who say that or feel like that is the "norm" or standard need to realize that ALL relationships are different, regardless of the presence or absence of the Y chromosome or a penis.

Kyle, only 2 more days! (Less, depending on what time she gets back) Take a deep breath, remember you did a good job and you made it!
You both said roughly the same thing so I'll respond to both. Men are different, yes, but they are still men. They still have no idea what it feels like to be a girl (in any of the millions of ways we're different). I guess what I've always thought about is less about parts or personalities and more about sensations. I suppose, in a way, now that I think about it your husband is right, Grey. It would be easier for a girl to steal another girl. DAMNIT! Way to ruin my logic from the past 10 years. Despite you crushing my beliefs, I don't feel threatened by anyone. I do feel threatened by distance and location though. My wife was pretty impressed with Cali, lol.

She should be getting back at 6 PM. I have to work so I'll be running up there to pick her up. I have a huge surprise in store for her. I don't think she's been checking these forums, but I'm not going to tell what it is until after just in case I'm wrong.
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Kyle: 27 year old male
Katie (rymmare): 25 year old female
Kids: girl: 5 years old, boy: 3 years old
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  #75  
Old 03-12-2012, 06:48 AM
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I think it was great that nycindie added her bit on the whole "I got married to her only to give her away" thing. It is rather an odd idea in terms of how society views marriage in the traditional way, but I am thankful that every time someone comes here and brings up the oddity of "giving their wife away" someone brings up the "ownership" talk that poly people are so well versed on. Its a good reminder, to EVERYONE reading here (those not posting, here for the first time, who are new to poly etc.) that it is possible to view marriage outside the norm of "ownership." If I understand correctly, this is what nycindie was trying to put across.

On that note, I think its come up often enough that it deserves a tag.

Its important to remember that this conversation is not in a box. Its public, if nycindie didn't bring it up, I would of, just to make sure that everyone out there gets the concept.... does that make sense? It seems obvious to me Kylekat that you are not viewing your wife this way, but musing on the strangeness of it all. I am assuming that is the case, otherwise you would be off the wall with this "vacation" rather than handling it quite well so far.
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  #76  
Old 03-12-2012, 08:41 AM
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Anneintherain Anneintherain is offline
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I found out early on that my husband did not consider it any less likely that a male partner would be impetus for me to leave than a female partner would, if I was going to leave him. It was a refreshing change from what I'd seen typically by men, to see he didn't see f/f relationships as less valid than m/f. Only downside it meant that poly was just as scary and there was no dipping my toes in the water of "oh I'll just date girls until you're more comfortable".

KyleKat - I KNOW this is her vacation, and as it's almost over I won't prod you about it but the truth is this isn't JUST a vacation, and to ask for contact is not weak at all, if it would help you. You need to look out for your needs to feel loved, and if it happened to be interrupting her on a non traditional vacation, it is something you NEED to learn to do. Plenty of people have justified why they don't speak up because well its just a"X" so I should be able to deal with it, but if you are bothered by something, don't suck it up. Sure, maybe you are selfish as you say? but when going through such a monumental new experience, that's one of those times you can use being selfish to your advantage, to make sure you don't come out the other side wishing you'd had the nerve to speak your mind.
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  #77  
Old 03-12-2012, 12:22 PM
KyleKat KyleKat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anneintherain View Post
I found out early on that my husband did not consider it any less likely that a male partner would be impetus for me to leave than a female partner would, if I was going to leave him. It was a refreshing change from what I'd seen typically by men, to see he didn't see f/f relationships as less valid than m/f. Only downside it meant that poly was just as scary and there was no dipping my toes in the water of "oh I'll just date girls until you're more comfortable".

KyleKat - I KNOW this is her vacation, and as it's almost over I won't prod you about it but the truth is this isn't JUST a vacation, and to ask for contact is not weak at all, if it would help you. You need to look out for your needs to feel loved, and if it happened to be interrupting her on a non traditional vacation, it is something you NEED to learn to do. Plenty of people have justified why they don't speak up because well its just a"X" so I should be able to deal with it, but if you are bothered by something, don't suck it up. Sure, maybe you are selfish as you say? but when going through such a monumental new experience, that's one of those times you can use being selfish to your advantage, to make sure you don't come out the other side wishing you'd had the nerve to speak your mind.
It's not like I am planning on not telling her. I just wasn't going to make the middle of her vacation time to change the rules. That feels tacky to me. I agreed to limited contact, realized I'm able to tolerate it but don't like to, and opted to wait until she gets back to let her know. I feel that it's a big enough deal that she needs to know for next time but not important enough to call an audible. Besides, most of my trepidation comes from being alone this time. I fully expect to have someone that I can spend time with by the next time she leaves. I need a focus for my energy or I get stir crazy. If I have that then it won't be a big deal to not call her for a week. Sure I'll still miss her but at least I won't constantly be imagining them together.
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"Regret for the things we did can be tempered by time; it is the regret for the things we did not do that is inconsolable." - Sydney Smith

Kyle: 27 year old male
Katie (rymmare): 25 year old female
Kids: girl: 5 years old, boy: 3 years old
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  #78  
Old 03-12-2012, 02:09 PM
dingedheart dingedheart is offline
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The point Anne has made is exactly what I was thinking when I posted about getting points for suffering. There's a huge difference in having a 2 -3 min hi.. how's it going conversation at a reasonable hour then drunk dialing at 3am sobbing for an hour or 2.

This just seemed like you both jumped into the dark deep end of the pool. But hey ...you made it good job ....congratulations on this.
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  #79  
Old 03-12-2012, 02:52 PM
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SourGirl SourGirl is offline
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As for the ownership/marriage/property argument. I guess I didn`t miss much over the weekend.
If you think about society today, and what we grow up learning. Today`s under-40 crowd, has in general learned about people who are 'gay' and what that *might* mean.

That leaves us with some people who still don`t care to understand homosexuality or gay rights, ( traditional ) some people who understand through exposure, and others who try to embrace exactly what that means, to stay politically correct.
Where that can lead, is situations where the husband ( or wife in the vice-versa) doesn`t feel threatened by the wife having same-sex relations, as he may have some background, or education on understanding what homosexuality entails, and that it is not a 'choice' to be homosexual.

Where as,....99% of us, have not been exposed to education on 'rights' to choices in more then one romantic partner in heterosexual relationships. So a lot of information gets 'dumped' in a short period of time to process.

Like most of us, I have watched many relationships around me, and wondered how people get to where they are. I have seen many people struggle with 'what is right', but very few do it out of a sense of direct ownership. Usually the partner struggling to accept ( we`ll say husband for arguments sake, only.) is trying to educate themselves, understand what is wanted and why, and figure out if it is 'right' to want that.

Ownership in poly is usually overt, and deliberate. 'Man' allowed to have multiple partners, woman is not, as it is not 'her place'.

So,.my point is,..as I play catch-up and read....I think you are doing pretty great at the processing. So keep discussing thoughts, and hearing new outlooks. I hope you both have an enjoyable reunion.
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  #80  
Old 03-12-2012, 03:31 PM
KyleKat KyleKat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dingedheart View Post
The point Anne has made is exactly what I was thinking when I posted about getting points for suffering. There's a huge difference in having a 2 -3 min hi.. how's it going conversation at a reasonable hour then drunk dialing at 3am sobbing for an hour or 2.

This just seemed like you both jumped into the dark deep end of the pool. But hey ...you made it good job ....congratulations on this.
Ha, fortunately I did not drunk dial. I came close at one point but I survived! I see your point and yes we did jump right into it but I think that's the only way I would have been able to do it. Had I made her go slower... I don't know. We will never know now.

Thanks to you and to everyone for the congratulations. I am so pumped for tomorrow. I can't stand it.
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"Regret for the things we did can be tempered by time; it is the regret for the things we did not do that is inconsolable." - Sydney Smith

Kyle: 27 year old male
Katie (rymmare): 25 year old female
Kids: girl: 5 years old, boy: 3 years old
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