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  #11  
Old 04-25-2012, 07:48 PM
desire desire is offline
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I am in an LDR for an obvious reason - work. But, I think, I am in an LDR also because I feared the loss of intimacy if we lived together...I was not saying this to myself, and till this melt down happened, and he blamed me for leaving him, did I even understand that I was deliberately schemeing to be away to keep the relationship alive!
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  #12  
Old 04-25-2012, 08:19 PM
dingedheart dingedheart is offline
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OK the LDR is a result of a career move and or more.


How far apart are you and how often can you get to together ...him coming to see you or you going home?


When did you see the slide in your relationship?
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  #13  
Old 04-25-2012, 08:28 PM
desire desire is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dingedheart View Post
OK the LDR is a result of a career move and or more.


How far apart are you and how often can you get to together ...him coming to see you or you going home?


When did you see the slide in your relationship?
I visit him every three months for ten days or so. once a year, we spend three months together, this is going on for the past three years.
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  #14  
Old 04-25-2012, 08:28 PM
desire desire is offline
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I visit him every three months for ten days or so. once a year, we spend three months together, this is going on for the past three years.
the slide in the relationship happened two months ago, i have visited him once after that.
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  #15  
Old 04-25-2012, 08:41 PM
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Re (from desire):
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"What is the right and fair thing by both of us now? Is there something like that? He is clear what he wants, he wants both of us ..."
Well, I don't know so much what would be right/fair by her, since I don't know of her situation as well as I do yours. I think that on your part, he has moved too fast in his relationship with her and should probably slow it down. Perhaps he should even end it with her, if him being with her is just not something you can live with and be happy. But he's kind of "led her along," and so breaking up with her might not be fair to her. Did she know he had a wife (you) when she first got involved with him? Was she aware that this open/poly thing might be something that you would struggle with?

Plus he should show (each of) you that you are wanted (by him) in a way that you can emotionally relate to. For whatever causes/reasons, he's getting the message through intellectually, but not emotionally. What's your primary "love language?" Touch? Service? Gifts? Quality Time? Words of Affirmation? Whatever it is, he should be speaking to you in that "language."

It's actually be normal for you to be having some feelings of loss. Monogamy is presented to us as something of a "happily ever after dream," and throughout childhood (and adulthood), this message is reinforced, so that we start "dreaming that monogamous dream." Then, when a theretofore-monogamous relationship opens up (and becomes non-monogamous), your (involuntary) conditioning can cause you to feel like the "happily ever after" and "dream" has been lost. This is something you are probably grieving. As grief is a process, you shouldn't beat yourself up over not being able to "just get over it." You have to go through the steps of grief over time.

What else can be done to help the situation? Would setting a goal to "move back in together" in the same house/town be realistic or a good idea? What else would you need to feel comfortable with this situation?
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  #16  
Old 04-25-2012, 09:06 PM
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Originally Posted by kdt26417 View Post
Re (from desire):


Well, I don't know so much what would be right/fair by her, since I don't know of her situation as well as I do yours. I think that on your part, he has moved too fast in his relationship with her and should probably slow it down. Perhaps he should even end it with her, if him being with her is just not something you can live with and be happy. But he's kind of "led her along," and so breaking up with her might not be fair to her. Did she know he had a wife (you) when she first got involved with him? Was she aware that this open/poly thing might be something that you would struggle with?

Plus he should show (each of) you that you are wanted (by him) in a way that you can emotionally relate to. For whatever causes/reasons, he's getting the message through intellectually, but not emotionally. What's your primary "love language?" Touch? Service? Gifts? Quality Time? Words of Affirmation? Whatever it is, he should be speaking to you in that "language."

It's actually be normal for you to be having some feelings of loss. Monogamy is presented to us as something of a "happily ever after dream," and throughout childhood (and adulthood), this message is reinforced, so that we start "dreaming that monogamous dream." Then, when a theretofore-monogamous relationship opens up (and becomes non-monogamous), your (involuntary) conditioning can cause you to feel like the "happily ever after" and "dream" has been lost. This is something you are probably grieving. As grief is a process, you shouldn't beat yourself up over not being able to "just get over it." You have to go through the steps of grief over time.

What else can be done to help the situation? Would setting a goal to "move back in together" in the same house/town be realistic or a good idea? What else would you need to feel comfortable with this situation?
After one of my "melt downs" where I shouted at both of them over the phone, he has decided to "end" it. right now, he has moved out of the city she is there, for the next two months. But, communication between them has not ended. True, I feel a bit more secure with that reassuarance that I am important in his life. (though, I feel shitty to have been dragged into this situation).

He does feel guilty for having "led her along,". He did that, surprisingly, by telling her that his wife would not mind! He never discussed these things with me while he was busy seducing the lady, I must add. I must add that he was not completely a manipulator when he did that because when we started our relationship, it was I who, hesitantly brought up the idea that perhaps we need to think of an open relationship, though, I had no idea what it was. I did this because I felt I did not want to "settle" into a dishonest trap that most so-called monogamous relationships would become. For me, what was important was the possibility of another relationship should be open, but, I had no real need to explore it. Nor did I read him as a person who might and he had reassured me that he did not want to explore any other relationship. In fact, I had felt insecure with other potential partners who were into multiple relationships. Yet, I also had gone through a very possessive relatioship just before I met him and it had felt shitty.

She did know he had a wife when she first got involved with him, because he told her. He also told her he was committed to me and he loved me.

But, he kept on reassuaring her that I would take the open/poly thing without struggle and he says, he himself believed it. But, he had not discussed it with me till he had reached a point of no-return with the new person.

All the advices are for him - I realize. I have no control over his actions and he himself is very averse to reading up on poly etc! (Strangely, I am the one who seems to be doing more theoretical work on poly than him who has just sprung it on me in practice!) I would actually like to find out what I can do...since I have no control over his actions anymore.


Yes - I think grieving is a process. But, I need to tell this to him. he expected me to just happily take this, congratulate both of them, and continue to love him the way I used to...and be happy to see the change. In my own life, there is no possibility of finding a new partner, nor do I have the emotional energy to actually do that since grief has filled me with such negativity that I am paralyzed. And, I also feel, now if i actually get involved with someone very deeply, he might feel rejected since he is suddenly talking the language of "coming back" (though he thinks he needs to give the girlfriend more emotional time to break up).


I have decided to move back together with him as a last ditch attempt to heal the relationship in about two months. (I cant go before that). I will take up a job near him. But, I have no hopes on our relationship anymore. He himself is going through a nervous breakdown kind of situation because he feels pulled by me and by her in opposite directions, emotionally.
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  #17  
Old 04-25-2012, 09:39 PM
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Re:
Quote:
"I must add that he was not completely a manipulator when he did that because when we started our relationship, it was I who, hesitantly brought up the idea that perhaps we need to think of an open relationship, though, I had no idea what it was."
Well, what did you think it was at the time?

Re:
Quote:
"For me, what was important was the possibility of another relationship should be open, but, I had no real need to explore it. Nor did I read him as a person who might and he had reassured me that he did not want to explore any other relationship."
Well, either he deliberately misled you at the time, or his feelings unpredictably changed later. In which case, he should have at least notified you the moment he developed any interest in this other woman, and found out what your thoughts, feelings, and boundaries were on the matter.

Re:
Quote:
"But, he had not discussed it with me till he had reached a point of no-return with the new person."
Well that was where he did you (and her) wrong: taking it to the point of no return *before* communicating with you about it.

Re:
Quote:
"I would actually like to find out what I can do ... since I have no control over his actions anymore."
Well that's the rub, isn't it; all of your choices will have to be about what *you* do. The first question you could ask might be, Are you going to leave him? and if you aren't, what are *you* going to do to improve the relationship? Perhaps finding out his love language would be a place to start -- a way of setting an example for him.

Also, before you proceed much further, you'll need to know crystal clear whether he can be monogamous (and stick to it), and if he can't, then you have to ask yourself if him being polyamorous is something you can live with. What are the conditions under which you can live with it? When you've decided that for your own part, then you can tell him about it, and at least he has fair notice about what would be a dealbreaker for you.

Other than that, you just need to keep up your efforts to communicate with him (as long as you're staying with him).

It sounds like both of you have some difficult times ahead. You are facing those times in the hopes that your relationship can be saved through them. That says something about how you (deep down) still feel about each other.
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  #18  
Old 04-25-2012, 10:25 PM
desire desire is offline
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Thanks a lot for the quality time you are giving me. Let me try to answer the first question - "Well, what did you think it (an open relationship )was at the time?" which I am asking to myself now, and which I find difficult to answer - for that you need to know my history.

I do not and did not know what I wanted, but, I kind of knew what I didnt want - that was an non-communicative (which is "closed") relationship with its doors securely shut. I saw a lot of marriages descending inot this. And, I also sensed, it was the issue of sexuality which was making it "closed."

So, before I had any relationship in my life, I thought, what I wanted was a communicative open relationship. But, the two introductions in my life to situations which might be termed "multiple", had turned out to be disastrous.

The first happened when I was a virgin. My friend's husband seduced me with the assuarance that they were in an open relationship. I respected her deeply and through her, I had also come to know him and respect him. But, after the "act," which was my first introduction to adult sexuality, he confessed that he did not want to tell his wife because she would get upset. I was very upset and felt shitty for betraying my friend. Yet, the introduction to sexuality was something significant in my own life and we had contact two more times. Through me, he had heard about two of my friends and surprising me, and hurting me, he made advances to both of them. One rejected him totally because she felt I was involved with him vaguely by then. The other encouraged him, played with him for sometime, and then did not allow him to take it to a physical level. I felt totally used and also guilty in the whole process. Later, i understood that the couple were having serious problems in their relationship and he was on a hunting mood. I withdrew anyway, and healed by myself.

The other introduction happened when I was a bit more experienced. I had a friend with whom I was not totally emotionally involved but it was a safe and nice relationship. I suspect he was more intensely involved in the relationship than me. We did not live in the same city, so he visited me once in a while and we continue to be friends, though not lovers. After an intense period of letter writing for some months, it fizzled off for me, though he was vaguely there. At the same time, I fell in love with a bisexual man who was studying with me. He was involved with many women at the same time, and I was one of them. I also did not present myself as solely his, because this former friend was still in my life, though distant. and, neither of us actually spoke of "love." While all these things were going on, this person suddenly started cutting off from me and we did break off, without words. Almost immediately, my best friend started seeing him and they established themselves as a couple. This, broke my heart. It took me years and years to heal.

I have always felt that monogamy can only lead towards dishonesty. Yet, these two experiences did shake my belief in my own capability to take a multiple partner situation which might not leave me shattered.

After these experiences, I settled into what can be termed "settled monogamy." That turned out worse. the person was so possessive and we both destroyed our relationship with mutual misunderstandings. After five years, I walked out of an emotionally abusive relationship into the vaccum of freedom. I did not know what I wanted, by then. I wanted belonging. Yet, I did not want to compromise my mobility, my friendships and my time completely to anyone.

When I began my relationship with my current partner, I did use the words, "open relationship." I was doubtfully asking, maybe we must have an open relationship? He replied, he is not the kind who theorizes endlessly on relationships, and when some situation like that arises, we will cross the bridge when we come to it.

But, I must add that I soon felt safe with him, and the sexual exclusivity also became comfortable for me. We never ever talked about "opening" our relationship though we moved in circles where many of our friends were experimenting with primary partners but, having romantic/sexual partners outside the primary relationship. I could sense vague dissatisfactions in these arrangements, though it seemed to be allright. Most of these were "settled" marriages of decades with their own baggages of mutual trust and grievances. Our own relationship is relatively new. just three years.

I do not know if I want him back "monogamous" now. (though, even the words that he might break off from her does give me a feeling of being important enough in his life). Why am I saying this? Because, I know that with that coming back, all communication between us might actually stop. All our playful teasing of each other might end. and, do i just want to continue in a relationship like that,the answer is a definite "no."

Yet, can I take him being equally, or more, emotionally involved with another person? I was not able to take it, the pace with whcih it happened, the way in whcih it happened, the silence with which it happened (though, according to him, he communicated).

I do feel, if I can form emotionally sustaining relationships which might be erotic, I might be able to take him being involved with another person. I do fear this would change our relationship, though. I already have very close friendships with both men and women, though none of them are erotic. (some of them are ex lovers and I keep in touch with them, but, dont sleep with them, after the intense relationship with my husband began). I do not want to revive these relationships anyway, now. But, maybe...who know? In future, I might be able to form other relationships. I want the door open, though, i might never use it. (I wanted that possibility rather than the actual experience, I suspect!)

Does this sound confusing? And, can i blame my husband for being confused and blaming me for having "created" this situation? since I never expressed these things so clearly to myself?

But, what ever it is, as you said, only a "confession" happened, now, I am sure. it was not a process of both of us growing into it...but, a forced circumstance, for me...
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  #19  
Old 04-25-2012, 10:43 PM
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It isn't the structure of a relationship that leads to dishonesty. It is the people involved and how ethical they are willing to be. I think that focusing on whether or not the relationship is open or poly is not the place to zero in on.

The point of focus should be on: 1.) the communication between you two, and 2.) following through on the commitments you make. Acting with honesty and integrity, basically. Whether those commitments are to exclusivity or non-exclusivity makes no difference.

Each of you must figure out what you truly want and where your own personal boundaries are, ask for what you need, deliver consequences when boundaries are crossed, live up to your commitments, learn how to forgive and yet use "tough love" at the same time, and express yourselves honestly and directly. This is what makes any relationship thrive, whether monogamous or polyamorous.

Good luck. You both have work to do, but it is not insurmountable.
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Last edited by nycindie; 04-25-2012 at 10:48 PM.
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  #20  
Old 04-26-2012, 03:48 AM
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Re (from desire):
Quote:
"When I began my relationship with my current partner, I did use the words, 'open relationship.' I was doubtfully asking, maybe we must have an open relationship?"
I could be reading this wrong, but it sounds like at the time you didn't quite *want* an open relationship per se, but you felt you had to suggest it because the alternative (a closed relationship) might be worse.

Re (from desire):
Quote:
"I do not know if I want him back 'monogamous' now. (Though, even the words that he might break off from her does give me a feeling of being important enough in his life.) Why am I saying this? Because, I know that with that coming back, all communication between us might actually stop. All our playful teasing of each other might end. And, do I just want to continue in a relationship like that, the answer is a definite 'no.'"
So, you are settling for a relationship type ("polyamory" or "sexually open") because what you do want -- on some level (monogamy) -- seems to come with the death of communication and that "spark" between you.

First of all, it should be said that relationships (healthy relationships, whether open, closed, monogamous, or whatever) do evolve over time. Things don't stay in the "honeymoon phase." That doesn't mean you aren't in love with each other any longer, it just means you have to make more of a conscious effort (e.g. planned/arranged date nights) to show (and remember) that love for each other.

Communication is similar in that regard. New couples just starting out are excited about each other, are just getting to know each other, and as a result are talking to each other a lot, naturally and without effort. After you get to know someone better (and have lived with them awhile), (the mundane and the) routines do creep into your relationship. Communication is no longer "automatic;" it takes conscious effort (on the part of both people, but usually someone, just one of the two people, has to be the bigger person and step up to the plate, and initialize the communication).

None of this is to say that "all the fun is gone out of the marriage." It just means it takes a little digging to make it (still) happen. And the effort is rewarding. It's worth it, because you can have a deeper bond with someone you've been with for awhile (even though it takes more effort to get the ball started).

Even if you eventually decide to open up your relationship, to romance outside the relationship, you should probably "go monogamous" for awhile and get the focus exclusively on each other, and on repairing the damaged trust in your relationship. Some couples' counseling (preferably with a poly-friendly therapist) might be a good idea, if you can get it. Your relationship has taken a lot of damage (from his fling with this other woman); it won't be mended overnight.

Make sure he clearly understands that you need him to communicate more (even if he feels he has been communicating -- and you must communicate with him more also), and that you need his commitment to help you keep that spark alive in your relationship. If you ever do "go poly" (in the future), you (read: he -- or both of you) will obviously have to take it slower.

Re (from desire):
Quote:
"I do feel, if I can form emotionally sustaining relationships which might be erotic, I might be able to take him being involved with another person. I do fear this would change our relationship, though."
That's actually kind of sad, because it's exactly what you fear about monogamy: that is, that it will somehow change, for the worse, your relationship with him. Not all change is bad, some change is good. Some change will probably be necessary for you to save the relationship.

You might find "Opening Up: creating and sustaining open relationships," by Tristan Taormino, an interesting book to read. But remember, the only part of your relationship that *really* needs to be open (right now) is the open-communication part, the open-to-vulnerability part, and the openly-committed-to-each-other part. Don't depend on "outside relationships" to save your "main relationship;" that would be a fallacy.

I hope we can be some small help to you as you take on this daunting task of rebuilding your wounded relationship with your husband. Sometimes it's all about the little things; there's not always "one big answer."

With much regards,
Kevin T.
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