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  #31  
Old 04-05-2012, 06:00 PM
km34 km34 is offline
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Originally Posted by urmila View Post
We are hoping that the priest will be convinced with this and oblige us, thus providing us the religious sanctity for our second wedding but with different partners. By this we hope to eliminate hierarchy and there won’t be any primary and secondary relationship either. Our poly life will statrt from that day and we will keeping it private, by not revealing it to anybody including my son.
If you are going to commit yourselves that seriously, why wouldn't you tell your children? I know the culture is vastly different than what I experience in America, but I wouldn't even consider being with someone long term if I couldn't tell at least the people closest to me (kids, parents, siblings). Even though I know it won't make them happy and there could be serious negative responses, if I meet someone who is going to be a serious part of my life (living with me, influencing serious decisions, etc) then my family WILL know.

Is the priest going to KNOW that you are marrying a different spouse than the one you married during your first wedding or is part of the plan to deceive him so that he thinks he is only recommitting you to your current partners? If not, is it generally acceptable to purposefully try to get a priest to perform a ceremony if he doesn't know the full story?

This just seems oddly deceitful and I'm not sure if it's because I am misunderstanding or if it is really the plan.
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  #32  
Old 04-05-2012, 06:24 PM
amitabhisgood amitabhisgood is offline
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Read your post about the marriage. Its interesting to note that you have decided to take your relationship beyond current lifetime.

This playing around with mangalsutra stuff is actually increasing complexity in a simple relationship.

Does Hindu religion say that the marriage has to be in temple?

There is also arya samaj who can be contacted and be informed that love marriages are to be performed. Their procedures can be inquired.

Is a designated marriage required?

It seems like some sort of guilt feeling is getting into the relationship and this marriage part is being used as a cover up.
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  #33  
Old 04-05-2012, 06:34 PM
amitabhisgood amitabhisgood is offline
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Originally Posted by km34 View Post

Is the priest going to KNOW that you are marrying a different spouse than the one you married during your first wedding or is part of the plan to deceive him so that he thinks he is only recommitting you to your current partners? If not, is it generally acceptable to purposefully try to get a priest to perform a ceremony if he doesn't know the full story?

This just seems oddly deceitful and I'm not sure if it's because I am misunderstanding or if it is really the plan.
km34, you understand it correctly.

Urmila - As you are believer of dharma, I will recommend you and others to consider the Karma factor as well. In order to fulfill a personal desire, the sanctity of a priest is being challenged.

Along with your research on polyamory, I will recommend you to read material on quantum sciences and how at quantum level, a lie cannot be masked.
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  #34  
Old 04-05-2012, 06:57 PM
km34 km34 is offline
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km34, you understand it correctly.

Urmila - As you are believer of dharma, I will recommend you and others to consider the Karma factor as well. In order to fulfill a personal desire, the sanctity of a priest is being challenged.

Along with your research on polyamory, I will recommend you to read material on quantum sciences and how at quantum level, a lie cannot be masked.
That was my major concern. I have no qualms about people wanting to commit themselves to a group marriage in a ceremonial fashion, but this plan really seems to besmirch what the ceremony is supposed to stand for.

I'm also wondering - part of the ceremony is the father of the bride giving her to her groom. Are you parents on board with this plan or have you found some way around that too?

Again, after googling Hindu and group marriage the Hindu Marriage Act came up which makes it illegal to have more than one spouse at a time. How do you rationalize that in your plan?

That's all my questions for the moment.
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  #35  
Old 04-06-2012, 08:51 AM
urmila urmila is offline
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Originally Posted by km34 View Post
If you are going to commit yourselves that seriously, why wouldn't you tell your children? I know the culture is vastly different than what I experience in America, but I wouldn't even consider being with someone long term if I couldn't tell at least the people closest to me (kids, parents, siblings). Even though I know it won't make them happy and there could be serious negative responses, if I meet someone who is going to be a serious part of my life (living with me, influencing serious decisions, etc) then my family WILL know.

Is the priest going to KNOW that you are marrying a different spouse than the one you married during your first wedding or is part of the plan to deceive him so that he thinks he is only recommitting you to your current partners? If not, is it generally acceptable to purposefully try to get a priest to perform a ceremony if he doesn't know the full story?

This just seems oddly deceitful and I'm not sure if it's because I am misunderstanding or if it is really the plan.
there is only one child that is my 20 year old son who is away from home already and next year he will be in USA, if everything goes on as per his plan, and I am sure he will succeed. Before that he may stay with us for a few weeks at the most. I dont think it is will be fair on our part to burden him with our plan. It will definitely affect him emotionally, psycologically and we dont know how he may react and we don't know how it may affect his plan. Hence we will not be telling him anything about this. Other than that we really dont have any contact with other family members.
polyamory itself will not be acceptable to anybody, let alone the priest. You r correct that it is decietful, But if this deception doesnot harm anybody in any way i dont think that it is a great sin and there is no way we can get a priest who will agree to perform the marriage ritual if he is made aware of the facts
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  #36  
Old 04-06-2012, 09:29 AM
urmila urmila is offline
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Originally Posted by km34 View Post
I'm also wondering - part of the ceremony is the father of the bride giving her to her groom. Are you parents on board with this plan or have you found some way around that too?

Again, after googling Hindu and group marriage the Hindu Marriage Act came up which makes it illegal to have more than one spouse at a time. How do you rationalize that in your plan?

That's all my questions for the moment.
You r correct that bride's parents r to give away the bride(kanyadaan) to the groom. As her parents r no more, any elderly couple can adopt her as daughter(not legally, but only for the purpose of doing kanyadaan) and they can perform the kanyadaan and we will be requesting the priest to find a local couple for that.
Yes it is illeagal as per the act, but our second marriage will be a private affair between the four of us and in the eyes of the outside world we will be as we are today, i.e two legally married couples

Quote:
Does Hindu religion say that the marriage has to be in temple?

There is also arya samaj who can be contacted and be informed that love marriages are to be performed. Their procedures can be inquired.

Is a designated marriage required?

It seems like some sort of guilt feeling is getting into the relationship and this marriage part is being used as a cover up.
marriages need not be in temple, it can be performed anywhere.
It can also be performed in Arya samaj, for that some procedures r there. we will have to give an advance notice and it will be displayed on their notice board. Birth certificates and the adress have to be given and their marriage certificate will be a valid legal document. Because of all this we have ruled this out
I have to concede there is truth in ur statement about the guilt feeling. This is mainly because of me. other three members were not perticular about this
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  #37  
Old 04-06-2012, 03:31 PM
km34 km34 is offline
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Originally Posted by urmila View Post
Yes it is illeagal as per the act, but our second marriage will be a private affair between the four of us and in the eyes of the outside world we will be as we are today, i.e two legally married couples
But it's NOT private. It's happening in a sacred space (the temple). If you were doing it in your home or in a public area instead of a religious one, it wouldn't seem as inherently wrong to me, but this whole situation gives me the a bad feeling.
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  #38  
Old 04-06-2012, 05:29 PM
urmila urmila is offline
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But it's NOT private. It's happening in a sacred space (the temple). If you were doing it in your home or in a public area instead of a religious one, it wouldn't seem as inherently wrong to me, but this whole situation gives me the a bad feeling.
It is ur view, but I dont think we r going anything wrong. As i have mentioned earlierm, there r already instances in our mythology woman having more than one husband, and all the husbands having other wives too.
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  #39  
Old 04-06-2012, 11:57 PM
km34 km34 is offline
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It is ur view, but I dont think we r going anything wrong. As i have mentioned earlierm, there r already instances in our mythology woman having more than one husband, and all the husbands having other wives too.
Very true, and I have no problem AT ALL with people have commitment ceremonies so that they can have multiple spouses without breaking the law. I just don't see the point of risking legal issues if someone were to find out. What is the punishment if someone happens to find out that you are married to two people?

My main concern, honestly, is the lying to the priest thing. I think laws preventing multiple spouses are ridiculous since most religions at the most basic level allow it. As long as it's consensual I don't see how any government should dictate who can marry who. But lying to a priest? How do you feel that isn't wrong? You are getting him to perform a ceremony that he may be fundamentally against. Because while you see the examples in history and think that your group marriage is okay (and for the record, I do agree with you there), he may not. He may think the law trumps. He may think that times have changed and those examples don't apply to modern days. How is it okay to not be up front with that MAJOR part of the plan?

I promise I'm not trying to judge you, but isn't truth one of the main disciplines of Hindu? (I'm pulling from my Intro to Religions course my freshman year here so I apologize for any ignorance I have or misusing terms)
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  #40  
Old 04-07-2012, 09:11 AM
urmila urmila is offline
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Originally Posted by km34 View Post
Very true, and I have no problem AT ALL with people have commitment ceremonies so that they can have multiple spouses without breaking the law. I just don't see the point of risking legal issues if someone were to find out. What is the punishment if someone happens to find out that you are married to two people?
Thanks km34. I was under the impression tht u r against polyamory itself. But by this msg i understand that is not so and u have issres only with the method we r adopting. Regarding any body finding out about us, I dont know how anybody can find out unless one of us we speak out. To my knowledge, a marriage in a temple is not legally recognised and authorities will not take any cogniscance of it on their own and will act only on a complaint by one of the affected party
Quote:
my main concern, honestly, is the lying to the priest thing. I think laws preventing multiple spouses are ridiculous since most religions at the most basic level allow it. As long as it's consensual I don't see how any government should dictate who can marry who. But lying to a priest? How do you feel that isn't wrong? You are getting him to perform a ceremony that he may be fundamentally against. Because while you see the examples in history and think that your group marriage is okay (and for the record, I do agree with you there), he may not. He may think the law trumps. He may think that times have changed and those examples don't apply to modern days. How is it okay to not be up front with that MAJOR part of the plan?

I promise I'm not trying to judge you, but isn't truth one of the main disciplines of Hindu? (I'm pulling from my Intro to Religions course my freshman year here so I apologize for any ignorance I have or misusing terms)
We have to do this, the chances of priest performing the marriage, if i he is told the truth is almost nil. I agree truth is a discipline of not just the Hindu religion, but also of all the religions.
We take solace from an instance from Mahabharatha, wherein Lord Krishna(9th incarnation lord Vishnu) trying to convince Dharmaraya to make an "untrue" announcement during the Kurukshetra war, by telling him that if that lie helps the cause which u think is just(we know that dharmaraya refuses and was asked to rephrase an announcement and the Lord make the last part inaudible by blowing his conch, which serves the purpose)
With this we r going ahead without any guilt feeling and with a clear conscience
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