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  #31  
Old 02-24-2012, 06:35 PM
Wants2BEqual Wants2BEqual is offline
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Thanks Dragonfly. have taken some time for emotions to settle.
he feels we 3 should meet to talk together (he, I and her). He feels its best to do this in a low key way, without actually discussing all the drama at hand, maybe to do something together (virtual yes, but we are used to it) and try to get a read on our current chemistry together.

I'll keep you all updated. Meanwhile he's making an effort for assurances that I know we are still together while we try hard to work this out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dragonflysky View Post
Obviously it isn't just YOU who has created the disconnect between husband and wife. Yes it sounds like she's in a difficult job/living situation, but YOU did not create that situation. That situation was going to happen regardless of your role in their lives. The stresses may have be intensified with you entering their lives, but part of her "Fragile" state is caused by a choice SHE made...or perhaps THEY made....to accept employment and move away from her husband. (I'm not saying the choice wasn't necessary, but I question how much ownership on the wife's behalf is going on here.)

So you and he are expected to put your relationship on hold because her life hasn't gone the way they expected or hoped?? Does this mean that anytime a partner has something difficult in their life, they can request that the other partners back off on their relationship??? It sounds to me that she has some decisions to make about whether or not to keep her current job and live apart from her husband. This is a decision that COULD be made regardless of whether or not her husband and you have a relationship. Perhaps instead of wanting the two of you to back off with each other, she should decide what she wants to do with her job/living situation....do it...and then talk about what next.

Since your guy sees her as "fragile" or "ill", however, it may be in your best interest to chose to back away for awhile...for your own sanity.... until HE can be clear about what he truly wants and whether or not he's willing to make some difficult choices.
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  #32  
Old 02-24-2012, 06:46 PM
Wants2BEqual Wants2BEqual is offline
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Default he wants us to meet

Pretty close assessment except I was and never have been jealous of her.
And I'm not sure she ever had much NRE for me..but we have been friends.

I think once it went past "light and fun" (which was pretty quickly), she came along because she didnt want to lose him.

And it was him who lost his job and moved away not her (to take new job), she is still in the family home. She wants to quit her job and move to where he is now (and sell or rent their home)

Its pretty clear she is accomodating to the point where she'll compromise in order to keep her relationship with him. Me backing off 6 or 8 months I dont think will ever change that. She is accepting and accomodating. But she has resentments to work through. The question is how do we move forward with respect, peace, calm and how do I ensure I feel equal.

He wants us all to meet in non drama way just to feel new chemistry (how does it feel, how do we act, whats the air in the room)....

what do you think now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magdlyn View Post
OK, W2BE, I think I am finally getting a clear picture of the situation.

5 years ago, the wife agreed to let her h get together with you to "spice up the marriage." Things were a spicy triad for a while, NRE, 3 way sex, etc. They lived together, you lived miles away. You only met them in person from time to time, skyped in between.

All well and good. Then, NRE (her for you) faded, and the NRE between you and her man developed into love. This made the wife very nervous. She didn't really want true polyamory, just a unicorn who would be at their beck and call, sexually, and keep her damn mouth shut.

You put up with keeping your mouth shut for a time, but once you and the husband felt you loved each other, you started wanting more. OTOH, she wanted you around less, because of being afraid her h would choose you.

So, you are mono, she is mono, the h just wants two wives and is stuck in the middle with his lovers both resenting and being jealous of each other.

Meanwhile, the h and wife both lost jobs. She moved away from him, partly because she was angry with him for loving you, partly to find work. He is still in the original family home.

Now she wants to move back in with him, job or not. You're tired of this LDR and also want to move to be near him...

Gosh, despite the "unbearable" pain, if I were you, I'd step back and let this husband and wife sort out their shit. I'd give them a good six to eight months. Maybe chat from time to time, but take care of myself, develop hobbies, redecorate my apartment, take a long trip with a platonic friend, anything to distract myself from this troubled couple.

As I stated earlier, their original agreement was to have a mythical unicorn, with no needs of her own, just an infinite willingness to eat the crumbs off their marital table. Now that you are speaking up, you're not quite so much fun anymore.

Read this thread about secondaries' rights, click on the link in the OP

http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20315

Read every thread on this board tagged secondary.
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  #33  
Old 02-26-2012, 12:12 AM
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Magdlyn Magdlyn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wants2BEqual View Post
Pretty close assessment except I was and never have been jealous of her.
And I'm not sure she ever had much NRE for me..but we have been friends.

I think once it went past "light and fun" (which was pretty quickly), she came along because she didnt want to lose him.

And it was him who lost his job and moved away not her (to take new job), she is still in the family home. She wants to quit her job and move to where he is now (and sell or rent their home)

Its pretty clear she is accomodating to the point where she'll compromise in order to keep her relationship with him. Me backing off 6 or 8 months I dont think will ever change that. She is accepting and accomodating. But she has resentments to work through. The question is how do we move forward with respect, peace, calm and how do I ensure I feel equal.

He wants us all to meet in non drama way just to feel new chemistry (how does it feel, how do we act, whats the air in the room)....

what do you think now?
I think several things. If she wants to move back in with him, good. They are married. Married people usually live together.

To be quite honest, if she is emotionally fragile, even ill, over this, in your shoes I would back off for a while. If you care about her health, if this is what she is requesting or begging for, I'd take the high road and give her time to heal.

As for your first question on the thread: if you live far from your bf, I don't see how you can ever be anything approaching the status of a co-primary, unless you live quite near him. How far apart are you now? Have you discussed moving closer once he and the wife re-establish some kind of normalcy (if they can!)?
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Love withers under constraint; its very essence is liberty. It is compatible neither with envy, jealousy or fear. It is there most pure, perfect and unlimited when its votaries live in confidence, equality and unreserve. -- Shelley

me: Mags, 59, living with:
miss pixi, 37
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  #34  
Old 02-27-2012, 02:36 AM
bookbug bookbug is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wants2BEqual View Post
Thanks Bookbug. Yes your experience seems similar except you got out at 1year...we tried to end it earlier. I broke up a few times in the beginning because of her pain...then he did a few times...we kept finding our way back (always him or him/her saying she was open too) and I allowed it.

I dont hold blame out to her. How could you possibly know when you agree to spice up your marriage, what could come. However agree it does seem a little naive, especially as a woman, to think emotional connection wont come if you open your husband up to other women.

NOt sure the chance is left to ask for deadlines on timing. Apparently she has taken a turn for the worse after realizing that if offered it again, i'd choose one on one with him. Appears she is in a bad way over that, unable to get outside of herself to see the larger picture, and he is not talking now either. He needs time and space to think about what to do.
This is hell and its killing me inside.

Curious, how are you handling moving on while still being friends AND deeply in love/missing him???? How do you make that work?

Thanks
My apologies on the long response time.

Honestly, I will hold onto whatever relationship with him I can have. We are that well-matched. The two of us are still trying to come to terms with our new "status". We are in daily communication by text, phone, and email. We find that we do okay, are kind of philosophical about the whole thing most of the time, but when we see each other in the flesh, it rekindles the longing. Don't know if that will diminish over time or not.

We've talked about being afraid to "let go", but that is more a psychological manifestation imo, than anything else. In all reality we have let go. Our lives are no longer entwined except as they would be with any friends that you love and care for.

I won't lie, although far from perfect, getting to this place was pure hell. The sense of loss was overwhelming. But it always came down to the fact that what choice did we have? Like you, I will never ask him to choose me over his wife and children.

I've finally reached the place, where I know I could go on and be happy if I knew that he could accept things and be happy. For some reason, it seems we must do this in lockstep. Due to winter illness, (his kids, me, his wife, him etc.) it's been three weeks since we've had a chance to talk in person. I am eager to see where his head is at ~ hard to discern by text, especially given the fact that we've been under weather.

One thing I know is that his wife, my friend, is now back in a good place psychologically, since he and I declared our platonic status. (And at one point he offered to cut off all contact with me in order to prove his love to her. The gesture was enough; she decided she didn't require him to actually do it.) For this I am glad. Just wish she could understand that our love for each other does not take away from her. However, since she's relaxed, she is no longer uptight about him spending time with me. In fact, next weekend he's coming to my house to help me with a computer problem.

I don't know if any of this will help you, but know that I know how you feel. Going to read the rest of the thread now to see if there have been any updates.
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  #35  
Old 03-17-2012, 12:24 AM
Wants2BEqual Wants2BEqual is offline
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Default Its over

Thanks to all that helped me. I'm very sad to say it didnt work out very well. In fact its over

She (his wife) was on leave for stress and calming a bit. I tried a few times to suggest pulling back (leaving the relationship), but we kept talking more as three, he didnt want to give up. But each time it was so clear she was in pain and not okay with my need of being a co primary. That she fears I'm going to take him for myself.

He assured me he was going to default to being with me if the 3 didnt work out...(which i'm sure stoked her fear)..... that we wouldnt break up. That if she didnt accept the new ground they were on, their marraige as they knew it was over. But this week we did break up. Because our happiness cannot be had if someone else is in pain. Because he would hate himself for leaving her now in the state she is in. Because he still loves her. Because they cant meet my needs of being an equal. He said leaving me would rip his heart out, but leaving her would compromise his values and make him hate himself. So he chose her.

I know how it goes when we contact each other after a breakup (we've had quite a few) and I asked him not to contact me. He was very saddened at this, and cried, but I know from history what will happen. Reading these boards it sounds like people think we should be able to stay in contact and not make it so hard with cold turkey no contact. But this has torn me up so completely, I'm not sure how I'll recover this time, much less risk it to happen again. I was ready to move to be near him, move my business, leave my friends and family and even my country. I wanted it. I was excited. Now the dream is not only gone, but so is he completely.

He felt like a soulmate, we brought each other up like phoenix's out of an abyss. We soared together.

IF I stayed in any kind of contact, I'm deathly afraid of being unable to move on.

And I didnt get to say goodbye to her but not sure any further outreach to her is appropriate.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bookbug View Post
My apologies on the long response time.

Honestly, I will hold onto whatever relationship with him I can have. We are that well-matched. The two of us are still trying to come to terms with our new "status". We are in daily communication by text, phone, and email. We find that we do okay, are kind of philosophical about the whole thing most of the time, but when we see each other in the flesh, it rekindles the longing. Don't know if that will diminish over time or not.

We've talked about being afraid to "let go", but that is more a psychological manifestation imo, than anything else. In all reality we have let go. Our lives are no longer entwined except as they would be with any friends that you love and care for.

I won't lie, although far from perfect, getting to this place was pure hell. The sense of loss was overwhelming. But it always came down to the fact that what choice did we have? Like you, I will never ask him to choose me over his wife and children.

I've finally reached the place, where I know I could go on and be happy if I knew that he could accept things and be happy. For some reason, it seems we must do this in lockstep. Due to winter illness, (his kids, me, his wife, him etc.) it's been three weeks since we've had a chance to talk in person. I am eager to see where his head is at ~ hard to discern by text, especially given the fact that we've been under weather.

One thing I know is that his wife, my friend, is now back in a good place psychologically, since he and I declared our platonic status. (And at one point he offered to cut off all contact with me in order to prove his love to her. The gesture was enough; she decided she didn't require him to actually do it.) For this I am glad. Just wish she could understand that our love for each other does not take away from her. However, since she's relaxed, she is no longer uptight about him spending time with me. In fact, next weekend he's coming to my house to help me with a computer problem.

I don't know if any of this will help you, but know that I know how you feel. Going to read the rest of the thread now to see if there have been any updates.
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  #36  
Old 03-17-2012, 01:27 AM
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Arrowbound Arrowbound is offline
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Sad to hear it didn't work out for y'all.

Hope you can find some peace in the near future.
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  #37  
Old 03-17-2012, 05:29 AM
bookbug bookbug is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wants2BEqual View Post
He assured me he was going to default to being with me if the 3 didnt work out...(which i'm sure stoked her fear)..... that we wouldnt break up. That if she didnt accept the new ground they were on, their marraige as they knew it was over. But this week we did break up. Because our happiness cannot be had if someone else is in pain. Because he would hate himself for leaving her now in the state she is in. Because he still loves her. Because they cant meet my needs of being an equal. He said leaving me would rip his heart out, but leaving her would compromise his values and make him hate himself. So he chose her.
I'm very sorry it turned out this way, but not surprised. The only difference between my situation and yours is that my guy and I discussed, and agreed, from day one if it didn't work, he would default to his wife. (At the time neither us really comprehended how hard this would be.) There were times he truly wished he could do something different; times I wished he could have too. But we both feel that if you compromise your honor, then you've truly lost everything. And neither of us ever really wanted it just to be us; we wanted the three of us. Unfortunately, his wife just couldn't do it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wants2BEqual View Post
I know how it goes when we contact each other after a breakup (we've had quite a few) and I asked him not to contact me. He was very saddened at this, and cried, but I know from history what will happen. Reading these boards it sounds like people think we should be able to stay in contact and not make it so hard with cold turkey no contact. But this has torn me up so completely, I'm not sure how I'll recover this time, much less risk it to happen again. I was ready to move to be near him, move my business, leave my friends and family and even my country. I wanted it. I was excited. Now the dream is not only gone, but so is he completely.
I can understand why you made that choice. Glad I didn't have to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wants2BEqual View Post
He felt like a soulmate, we brought each other up like phoenix's out of an abyss. We soared together.
I can relate.

Again, I'm so sorry.
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  #38  
Old 04-09-2012, 09:58 PM
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newtoday newtoday is offline
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Your story made me cry.

I'm a Mono Secondary too (And I too, hate that word).
My greatest fear is that one day your story will be my own.

Hugs to you. Hope you find peace sooner than later.
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  #39  
Old 04-09-2012, 10:47 PM
Wants2BEqual Wants2BEqual is offline
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Default Strange

Hi NT, Strange I havent checked the board in a while and did today and saw your nice note. TY so much.

The pain hasnt gone away and peace has not yet come, although I'm at the 30 day mark. i feel altered in some deeper way than a usual breakup. I'm trying really hard to get to acceptance.

He did contact me last week 3 weeks since the breakup. By email. It was to let me know he was still in pain and thought he might have to live with always being in pain, and he hoped I was doing ok. I said it was the same for me and wished him the best.

Are you on the same page with your loves? I hope you are coming into something that they've figured out between themselves already. I personally could never be a secondary again. Only a co primary. But I had to learn that the hard way.

Hugs

Quote:
Originally Posted by newtoday View Post
Your story made me cry.

I'm a Mono Secondary too (And I too, hate that word).
My greatest fear is that one day your story will be my own.

Hugs to you. Hope you find peace sooner than later.
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  #40  
Old 04-09-2012, 11:16 PM
bookbug bookbug is offline
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In the standard relationship when people break up it is because there are problems between them, good reasons not to be together. I think it's hard to wrap your head around the idea that there are no issues directly between yourselves and yet you still must be apart. I frequently find myself saying, "This is just stupid."

In my own situation, I know my friend was pain, but I do feel some underlying anger at her for agreeing to a permanent triad and then changing her mind, with the added bonus that she was shocked that we were hurt when it was she that "had everything to lose." Nope. I feel like I've lost everything. It might have made it easier if she'd tried to understand how much this hurt both her husband and I.

It's been 6 months now since I left.

As for her marriage, it is forever altered. Yes, he is staying with her. I'd been working under the impression that he was motivated by love and honor. He told me yesterday, that his motivation to stay is almost purely driven by the fact that his kids are flourishing, and it physically hurts him to consider ripping that apart. He does well in his role as husband, trying to keep the lines of communication open and endeavoring to support her, but she is no longer his focus in life. Sadly, I believe in the long run she will find that she has lost more than she realizes.

That said, my friend is going through some changes. Whether this will eventually result in her come to some understanding of the situation, and sympathy for our losses, I don't know. Whether this will enable her to repair the relationship between them, I don't know. Time will tell.

In the meantime, I have to move forward.
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