The Second Start

[polytriad]

Originally Posted by SchrodingersCat

Have you and your wife actually worked out the issues that lead up to your trial separation and her moving out? Were they because of Nikki or was she just caught in the cross-fire of a larger issue? Either way, those issues need to be resolved between you and your wife alone before trying to make something successful with a third.

Fortunately my wife and I took time away from any outside relationships to work on "us" (her and I) which I feel like we had great success with. Nikki was caught in the cross fire of the larger issue. But was put in the direct line of fire when her and I got sexually involved the night after Wifey moved out. Wifey felt betrayed by Nikki for having sex with me instead of looking out for her as a friend.

Originally Posted by SchrodingersCat

My experience has been that this is never a good idea. Moving in with someone magnifies all the problems that have been lurking beneath the surface. All the couples I've known who have been "forced" into living together prematurely have found the pressure too great, and they either broke up, or moved back into separate homes to keep the peace.

What would Nikki do about her living situation if you guys weren't in her life? Staying with you can be a temporary solution while she gets back on her feet but may not be a viable permanent solution to her housing crisis. And if they aren't already clicking, moving in together will only magnify each other's flaws ("I can't stand the way Nikki leaves her hair in the sink" "I'm sick of Wifey always nagging me to clean up my room" etc)

Well....the only thing that really changed as far as her moving in is that she actually has her things at our house now. She was always at our house..it was like we never did anything with out her before she moved in anyway. Also because her and I have be friend for so long we don't have any issues lurking beneath the surface everything is up front. I think Wifey and Nikki have been friends long enough to know about the others pet peeves..but this situation is temporary until she can save up money to get her own place. however we all acknowledge that the situation could change and she might just end up living with us on a permanent basis.

Originally Posted by SchrodingersCat

If you're all living under the same roof, how could you NOT get involved in their relationship?? You love your wife, you love Nikki, and whatever happens between them is going to have an affect on you. If they have a lover's spat, how will wife, to whom you've made a life long commitment, feel if you refuse to support her, for fear of upsetting Nikki?

Well I try to not make comments and not pay attention enough to notice anything that would prompt me to say anything. If they have a lovers spat I would choose to let them work it out and if they asked for my input Id offer it and Im secure enough in my relationship with both to point out who I think is wrong or right.

Originally Posted by SchrodingersCat

Be honest: is this "our goal" or "my goal" ? Has your wife expressed a true desire, FOR HERSELF, to be emotionally involved with Nikki, or is she forcing herself into something in order to please you?

Years ago when I thought of this idea I know she was only doing it for me because she didn't have romantic feelings for the person I had in mind (who we had a brief triad with) Her words "I don't know what it is about Nikki but she would be the only person I would be truly interested in having a triad with where I would be doing it for me rather then just you" Problem was that she didnt know what it felt like to have romantic feelings for a woman where as she only previously was interested in the sexual aspect of things with women. So to answer you question more directly no I don't think she is doing this to please me.

Originally Posted by SchrodingersCat

I don't feel that people can force romance if it's just "not there." If two people are meant to be together, then hell and high water can't keep them apart. I don't see your moving out making any difference in the chemistry between them. Meanwhile, by trying to fall in love with someone she has no connection to, she might be missing out on another woman that could drive her heart wild! Is that really what you want for her, just so you can have this poly version of the white-picket-fence?

They are not forcing romance. A better way of describing it is Wifey doesn't know how to "be with" a woman so she is trying to figure all that out without having me influencing her to be with Nikki how I as a man would be with Nikki. Nikki doesn't want to come on too strong and a run Wifey off. I believe Wifey is head over heals with Nikki and doesn't know how to partition her love for me and Nikki and them dating helps her see how I respond to it and how Nikki responds to it. I know we all have the poly white picket fence in mind for our future. Our live are already integrated.. kids, family, lifestyle, friends, finances,...etc..

My moving out for a while was more directed at how I can give them space to grow without feeling any pressure from me. an example would be if PDA was said to be ok in front of kids and you was givin the option to choose to kiss or hug in front of kids or without them around the choice would be with out them around even though PDA was ok in front. Same thing applies to me I know that I am ok with everything they do but they have to stop to think about it if I am sitting there which hinders their progress.

Thank you for you input.

[SchrodingersCat]

I think I have a better understanding of your situation now, thank you.

But another possibility for them growing their relationship is to actually spend less time together. "Absense makes the heart grow fonder" and all that...

Is there really a "way to be" with a woman as a woman that's intrinsically different than the "way to be" with a woman as a man? I've always just been "who I am" when in a relationship, and gone with the flow. If she takes some cues on how to be with Nikki by seeing how you are with Nikki, and vice-versa (Nikki seeing how you are with Wifey), then you'll all learn things about each other that you might not learn if you try to keep the distance.

But I'm no expert, and if what you're doing is working for your family, then that's what really matters. I just always feel that if something's not working for me, I don't just "do it harder" but I try to do something completely different...

[polytriad]

My Wife and Nikki are cuddled up on the sofa while I am sitting in my lazy-boy. I'm losing it people. I know I said I was cool with them dating without me but I want in soooooo bad I wanna cuddle I want to hug and kiss them...I have to sit her and watch them do all this right in front of me as I wish it was me doing those things.


What do I do? If I try to talk to them about it I will have gone back on my word. I want this to work I want them to want me involved without me bringing it up....HELP..I need to be talked off the ledge....I'M REALLY LOSING IT....

[ImaginaryIllusion]

Originally Posted by polytriad

What do I do? If I try to talk to them about it I will have gone back on my word. I want this to work I want them to want me involved without me bringing it up....HELP..I need to be talked off the ledge....I'M REALLY LOSING IT....[IMG]file:///C:/Users/Thomas/AppData/Local/Temp/msohtmlclip1/01/clip_image001.gif[/IMG]

If watching is too much stimulus for you...why are you watching it? Why are you in the room? If it's such a temptation, remove yourself.

My wife and I mostly date separately...I deliberately put space between her gf’s and I, even if I might otherwise be interested in them as well. As such if they’re on the couch being affectionate, I’ll usually be somewhere else.
Go to another room to write on the boards, call a buddy to go for a beer, find some work to do in the yard or another room...go have a cold shower, have a nap. Whatever. Do something, and give them their space.

One thing I think poly is often criticized for (rightly or wrongly) is a lack of self control. The wanting cake and eating it too is seen as a lack of discipline. Those who live (successfully) monogamous lives deny themselves other partners. They exercise the patience and discipline required to make sure they don’t enter a new relationship or behave inappropriately if they’re already in one. While poly may offer a different perspective on when one can enter into a new relationship, it doesn’t mean patience, self-control or discipline is any less important.

If I understand correctly, you’ve made an agreement to allow them space to develop a relationship on their own terms before you’re brought back into the fold. Why endanger that? Is one night of cuddling worth risking the longer term happiness of all three of you? Be patient, honour your word, and talk about it later.
Probably 6 hours late, but there’s my suggestion.

[polytriad]

Originally Posted by ImaginaryIllusion

If watching is too much stimulus for you...why are you watching it? Why are you in the room? If it's such a temptation, remove yourself.

My wife and I mostly date separately...I deliberately put space between her gf’s and I, even if I might otherwise be interested in them as well. As such if they’re on the couch being affectionate, I’ll usually be somewhere else.
Go to another room to write on the boards, call a buddy to go for a beer, find some work to do in the yard or another room...go have a cold shower, have a nap. Whatever. Do something, and give them their space.

One thing I think poly is often criticized for (rightly or wrongly) is a lack of self control. The wanting cake and eating it too is seen as a lack of discipline. Those who live (successfully) monogamous lives deny themselves other partners. They exercise the patience and discipline required to make sure they don’t enter a new relationship or behave inappropriately if they’re already in one. While poly may offer a different perspective on when one can enter into a new relationship, it doesn’t mean patience, self-control or discipline is any less important.

If I understand correctly, you’ve made an agreement to allow them space to develop a relationship on their own terms before you’re brought back into the fold. Why endanger that? Is one night of cuddling worth risking the longer term happiness of all three of you? Be patient, honour your word, and talk about it later.
Probably 6 hours late, but there’s my suggestion.

I understand where you are coming from and I appreciate your suggestions. My problem is that if I get up and leave the room or go somewhere else that will then prompt questions. Such as why I'm leaving and in the essence of being honest I would tell them....thus making me go back on my word and making me look like I cant handle it.

I just endured and did my best to not let it show that I was feeling left out.

Thanks for talking me down

[Ceoli]

Originally Posted by polytriad

Such as why I'm leaving and in the essence of being honest I would tell them....thus making me go back on my word and making me look like I cant handle it.

I don't see how open honest communication about your feelings in a situation is going back on your word. Did you promise not to say anything or did you promise not to act on anything?

I wouldn't recommend making promises that involve you having to sit on your feelings and not communicate.

[polytriad]

Originally Posted by Ceoli

I don't see how open honest communication about your feelings in a situation is going back on your word. Did you promise not to say anything or did you promise not to act on anything?

I wouldn't recommend making promises that involve you having to sit on your feelings and not communicate.

I committed that I was OK with them dating without me. I agreed to letting them work on building their relationship without my involvement physically and emotionally. Now I have to be coy about my feelings and not bring any light on my longing to be involved. I told them I could handle it for the greater good. Its getting harder and harder each day.

[MonoVCPHG]

Originally Posted by polytriad

I committed that I was OK with them dating without me. I agreed to letting them work on building their relationship without my involvement physically and emotionally. .

You can't commit to the changes in your emotions. That is an unfair requirement that you have put on yourself. Things change - that is guranteed. If they are "comitted" to doing this in a respectful and healthy way then they will understand that.

[Ceoli]

Originally Posted by polytriad

I committed that I was OK with them dating without me. I agreed to letting them work on building their relationship without my involvement physically and emotionally. Now I have to be coy about my feelings and not bring any light on my longing to be involved. I told them I could handle it for the greater good. Its getting harder and harder each day.

Not being involved in their relationship isn't the same as not being authentic with your feelings. You *do* have a relationship with your wife and that doesn't disappear in this dynamic.

I would suggest a couple of things. First it's very difficult to commit to *feeling* a specific way. You can't really say "I promise to be happy". You can say "I promise that I'll deal with any feelings that come up in "x" way"

If it were me, I'd say something like "I promise to honor your relationship and give you as much space as I can. If difficult feelings arise in this, I promise to deal with them as best I can, but I might need support from you as I do this. I also hope in this promise that you will honor my feelings and offer me space to communicate my feelings and support as I deal with them."

Second, I would *never* make a promise that involves asking anyone in a relationship to sit on, bottle up or otherwise not communicate their feelings. I've never seen good come from setting an expectation that someone suppress their feelings in a relationship.

Just my two cents there.

[polytriad]

Originally Posted by Ceoli

Not being involved in their relationship isn't the same as not being authentic with your feelings. You *do* have a relationship with your wife and that doesn't disappear in this dynamic.

I have brought this up before with just my wife. She took it as I was trying to rush them. She accused me of being unable to deal with them being involved without me when in reality I was just stating that I though that because they are both very passive and I am "thoughtfully aggressive" That I thought it might be a good idea to include me in the relationship as I could help them get over there passive struggles. Also telling her that I wouldn't take it the wrong way if they wanted to tell me I was moving too fast if I was involved giving them a since of ease knowing that they could still move at a comfortable pace.

Originally Posted by Ceoli

I would suggest a couple of things. First it's very difficult to commit to *feeling* a specific way. You can't really say "I promise to be happy". You can say "I promise that I'll deal with any feelings that come up in "x" way"

If it were me, I'd say something like "I promise to honor your relationship and give you as much space as I can. If difficult feelings arise in this, I promise to deal with them as best I can, but I might need support from you as I do this. I also hope in this promise that you will honor my feelings and offer me space to communicate my feelings and support as I deal with them."

Second, I would *never* make a promise that involves asking anyone in a relationship to sit on, bottle up or otherwise not communicate their feelings. I've never seen good come from setting an expectation that someone suppress their feelings in a relationship.

Just my two cents there.

I really like the way you put this. This is exactly how I feel.

I am overly concerned that I will bring things up and they will decide to include me on the basis that I am consistently having issues instead of just wanting to include me because they are ready.