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  #31  
Old 09-15-2010, 04:24 AM
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Let us know how it goes Lemon.
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  #32  
Old 09-15-2010, 05:25 PM
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It was a little anti-climatic, really. I wrote a long e-mail trying to detail how I felt. I made sure to stress that while I understood intellectually that I was not being rejected, emotionally I was a wreck. I asked for more touch, because I feel better when someone touches me. I'm pretty sure that I told her I really wanted to feel connected to everyone. It was long and involved and stressed how much I love her and want to be vulnerable and transparent.

Her reply was like three lines long. She got sick--poor thing, when she gets stressed her immune system really fails her, and she's been through a LOT of stress lately, one of the reasons I was trying to hide my feelings--and wasn't up to much. It was essentially, of course she loves me and wants me in the relationship. More touch is fine. No, she does not "just tolerate me" (my words, not stated so poorly or sounding so judgemental, I swear) so that she can have a relationship with Easy.

Today is the first day she's felt like going out, and I'm heading out in a few minutes to meet her. She did say that she really wanted to see me, so that felt good for me. The down side is that my hormones are REALLY out of control this month and I'm miserable and crabby. I'd love if anyone had any cures for cramps that went beyond heating pad, pain pills, and sex, because none of those are working, and not for lack of trying. Still, I'm going to try really hard to smile and not let my overall ickiness spoil the day.

ETA: Funny thing is, I decided that I do *so much better* at saying what I mean in e-mails that I was going to use this to communicate my really difficult feelings for Sunday, when I figure out where I would like to go with them. So I asked him, if I needed to talk to him, would it be easier to send an e-mail or message him on Facebook, or would he rather I talk to him face-to-face? He said e-mail, but he sounded *so stressed out* by the thought that I needed to talk to him. This is why I have such a hard time--I get the feeling that he doesn't want to talk about it, I decide he doesn't want to deal with me, I decide that if that's the case then I can just go away. No communication actually happens. Plus, I feel guilty for stressing him out. We're really very similar, and confrontation is hard for us. I know that when I get angry enough to actually SAY something, almost immediately afterward I start to shake, my stomach gets upset, my chest feels tight, and my muscles feel weak. Sometimes I start to shiver. I don't want to do that to him.

Last edited by Lemondrop; 09-15-2010 at 05:31 PM.
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  #33  
Old 09-15-2010, 10:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Lemondrop View Post
So I asked him, if I needed to talk to him, would it be easier to send an e-mail or message him on Facebook, or would he rather I talk to him face-to-face? He said e-mail, but he sounded *so stressed out* by the thought that I needed to talk to him. This is why I have such a hard time--I get the feeling that he doesn't want to talk about it, I decide he doesn't want to deal with me, I decide that if that's the case then I can just go away. No communication actually happens. Plus, I feel guilty for stressing him out. We're really very similar, and confrontation is hard for us. I know that when I get angry enough to actually SAY something, almost immediately afterward I start to shake, my stomach gets upset, my chest feels tight, and my muscles feel weak. Sometimes I start to shiver. I don't want to do that to him.
Then e-mail him quickly, even if it's not everything you need to say. Just start the conversation, that way he won't sit and worry about what is to come.
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  #34  
Old 09-15-2010, 11:15 PM
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And my all-time favorite poly memory...

I was filling out the paperwork for Monkey to start school and she looked over as I was putting in the guardian information.

Monkey: Why are there so many spots for parents?
Me: In case you have step-parents.
Monkey: Why haven't you put in Sunday and Asha?
Me: Because they aren't legally your step-parents.
Monkey: They're the step-parents of my heart!

I consoled her by listing them as emergency contacts and writing that they were friend/caregivers.

It's funny that Monkey, who is 11 and a girl, can handle the poly thing so well, while Moose, who is 16 and a boy, freaks out whenever we discuss it with him or mention anything to do with it. They are such different children.

ETA: I was reading some of the previous posts and am happy to report that Rockstar is being much nicer to me. Yesterday Sunday and Asha picked Moose up from school (and Moose wasn't surly!!!) and both Rockstar and Ocean informed me that they had decided that Rockstar was now my son, and Moose belonged to Sunday and Asha.
Monkey: They're the step-parents of my heart!

Just wanted to say that I thought that comment was so sweet. You must have very special children. How adorable;0D
-oh, and the 16 yo having trouble with your relationship? I'd venture to say that's mostly a teen thing...you know, trying to assert their independence?
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  #35  
Old 09-16-2010, 02:35 AM
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Just wanted to say that I thought that comment was so sweet. You must have very special children. How adorable;0D
-oh, and the 16 yo having trouble with your relationship? I'd venture to say that's mostly a teen thing...you know, trying to assert their independence?
Monkey is a sweetheart, very loving and accepting. I didn't realize that she knew as much about our quad until she started making comments like this. She's my easy kid. But all of the younger kids are pretty accepting. They spent tonight trying to convince us to move in together.

I think that Moose, my 16 yo, thought that my marriage was in trouble. He seemed quite angry, and we told him that we were in a committed relationship with Asha and Sunday in the hopes that it would give him some sense of stability and also to show him that we didn't feel we were doing anything wrong. We thought he was old enough to know that these people were going to be a big part of our lives for a long time. When we talked to him about having more adults who loved him, he said that he thought love should be between two people. We just keep acting like we're doing nothing wrong and keep trying to raise him like a normal family. He's my difficult kid. He was born sick, he spent his first six months in and out of the hospital, and he was in NICU for two of those months. I couldn't even hold him for the first five days, and we didn't know if he'd live. I think this caused some bonding problems, and he's always been horribly independent and tough to talk to. When I say horribly independent, I mean that I never knew what was going on with him, even when horrible things happened. He wouldn't let me take care of him. He had anger issues and definitely showed signs of being somewhat aspberger's. A few months after we became a quad, we got him into counseling and it has helped--that, and the continuing process of growing up.

I need to stress that we knew Asha and Sunday for years before we became a quad, so they weren't strangers who just wandered into Moose's life. (I'm told that I met them almost five years ago, but my memories of them only go back about four years.) Also, thanks to the improved communication skills we learned, we were able to determine that part of his problem is that he needs to feel stable, and we were making him feel unstable by spending so much time at Asha and Sunday's house. He needed to feel the stability provided by his own familiar environment, i.e. his house and his room. (This is a very aspberger's type symptom, I'm told.) We work with him to improve his ability to tell us what his needs are--like I said, this has never been his strong suit--and to recognize when he's getting overstimulated or stressed out. We also try to introduce change gradually and give him as much control over his own life as possible

I think he wants to rebuild his relationship with Asha and Sunday, but he's afraid that he's been so difficult that they won't love him. I have to wonder if he was so afraid that they wouldn't love him that he tried to wreck his relationship with them. He has a lot of the same problems that I do. I worry about him a lot.
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  #36  
Old 09-20-2010, 03:32 PM
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Had a fabulous family weekend again. On Sunday the boys brewed, and we had some other friends over to join in the process. I felt really lucky because all of these friends were aware that we're poly, if not overly familiar with what poly means, and I was able to relax and be affectionate and speak normally. It's always an awkward situation when I make a slip and refer to Sunday as my husband or Asha as my wife in front of friends who aren't aware. One of the friends, P, has just been told by his wife that she wants a divorce. She's flown with the kids to visit family, so he's alone this week, and yesterday was his birthday. I can't help feeling sorry for him. There was a huge amount of talk about what's going on in his life--this is the kind of thing that Asha thrives on, so she spent a large amount of the time talking to him. I don't know that she can help in this case, but she helped when Easy and I were tottering on the edge of that precipice, so who knows?

P talked about how awful their love life was, and I was completely shocked. Even when Easy and I were at our worst, I think the longest we went without sex was six weeks. I mean, I know that you can go without sex :P but what I'm saying is, I find the sex in my relationships very connecting. I put a lot of emotion into it. When there's no sex or touch at all, I feel disconnected, alone, floating loose, and it's tough on me. How incredibly sad, then, to have only one person to feel connected to and have nothing from them for YEARS. I'm trying to look at this from the standpoint of someone who isn't so invested in touching, but I'm having a tough time.

I'm also slightly upset at his wife, M, who is also a friend. She used to be a really close friend! She knew that we were poly almost from the beginning, and it used to be such a joy to be around her because we didn't have to hide who we were. A couple of weekends ago, M was over at Asha's house and we were discussing how another friend thought Sunday was the best thing ever and disapproved of how Asha treated him. Of course this was completely unfair and we all said so, but M said, "I just don't see it." No one knew how to take it or exactly what to say and M left soon after. Yesterday, we found out from P that when we all left the area--they were on the patio--M was apparently "all over" Sunday.

This seems like crazy behavior from someone we knew and trusted. Of course Asha is more bothered by the fact that someone who she thought was her friend is judging her and finding her lacking. But I'm hugely upset by the disrespect to our relationship. Not only did M think that she was trying to wreck a marriage, but she also knew about me. She knew that we were poly-fidelitous and she disrespected the secondary relationship, too. Why on earth? We were good friends.

There were a lot of shocking things. I guess I'm still trying to work it all out.
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  #37  
Old 09-22-2010, 05:31 PM
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Today I am grieving. We learned from P that possibly some other people who we thought were friends and had accepted that we were poly, have been judging us and saying rotten things about our lifestyle choices. One of these people is another mom with who was my daughter's Girl Scout leader, and I was her co-leader. It makes me sad that people I worked closely with, whose children have been friends with my children for years, would say one thing to my face and another behind my back. Am I really such a bad judge of character? It seems like every so often I find out that someone I thought was a good friend, someone who I thought would *tell me things to my face*, was actually saying things behind my back and judging me lacking in some way. Sometimes it's really hurtful, like when I found out that someone, someone I trusted to be honest!, was telling people not only that one of my children had done something awful, but that I knew about it and was okay with it, AND this thing had happened five years ago--so long ago that what am I going to do about it now? I can't punish my child for something that happened five years ago, even if I could find out for sure that they were guilty.

I digress. I'm terribly, terribly disappointed and wondering if I can trust any of my other friends. I've almost always lived an alternative lifestyle--I've been a Pagan since I was 17, I homeschooled for ten years, we work the Renaissance Festival (a culture in itself, even if we don't travel with it), and now we're poly. It's scary to think that someone might think that I'm a bad parent because my beliefs are different from theirs, and even scarier to think about the possibility that they might try to take my kids!

Tomorrow, I'm having coffee with a couple of ladies from the local BDSM support group, yet another alternative lifestyle choice. I'd like to go to the meet 'n greet the local group is having Friday night. Now I wonder if it's wise. Would it be better to be true to ourselves, doing things which I have NO REASON to believe would harm my children, or try to assimilate into mainstream culture? Is it right to possibly make my children's life harder by being different? Or is hiding myself teaching them to accept prejudice? I just find this depressing.

On a completely different topic--okay, maybe not a different topic, as one of the moms who is judging us has actually seemed to make overtures to Sunday which make me crazy with jealousy--I found a quote I like to help me deal with jealousy. It's true that I feel jealousy most often when I think that I have tried and not succeeded as well as my "rival". But I saw the following in a blog:

The fourth (and final) agreement in Don Miguel Ruiz's book, "The Four Agreements" is "Always Do Your Best." He writes:

Just do your best--in any circumstance in your life. It doesn't matter if you are sick or tired, if you always do your best there is no way you can judge yourself. And if you don't judge yourself there is no way you are going to suffer from guilt, blame, and self-punishment. By always doing your best, you will break a big spell that you have been under.

Last edited by Lemondrop; 09-22-2010 at 05:33 PM.
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  #38  
Old 09-23-2010, 01:31 PM
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Today I am grieving. We learned from P that possibly some other people who we thought were friends and had accepted that we were poly, have been judging us and saying rotten things about our lifestyle choices. ..................

Am I really such a bad judge of character?
Hey Lemon,

Yea, this is a tough realization.
Call me a cynic, but it was a realization I came to when I was pretty young. It seems there are a scattered few people in the world that you could be intimately connected enough to share you true inner self (and life). And there a good possibility that none of those people are in your immediate circle of social wanderings.

Is this comforting ? Hell NO. But it is what it is. Better, I feel, to acknowledge the reality and live accordingly than to hold up this utopian vision only to have it shattered.

I think this was a realization many of us grabbed on to a long time ago and resulted in what so many call splintered communities - where neighbors hardly talk to or know much about - neighbors. The close knit communities envisioned by the idealists came with their own negatives. That being, unless you lived a rigid, conformist lifestyle you were going to pay the penalty of ridicule and worse.
Better to be like smoke on the wind, drifting almost invisibly where you will and none to notice.........

GS
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  #39  
Old 09-27-2010, 08:02 PM
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GS, I *am* an idealist. I still believe that you can somehow find a few people who will not judge you--but will give you a kick in the pants if you need it!--to be in your community. Probably this is unrealistic, but I'm not sure I can exist in a world without that hope.

There's been much, much more drama in my world. Yet another friend apparently pulled the SAME thing with her husband, blindsiding him and asking for a divorce out of the blue, after having apparently had an affair for a year. She and M are bosom buddies, and apparently provided cover for each other's affairs. Wow. I'm stunned. Both of these women seem to have disapproved of my relationships while conducting themselves in what I would consider an unethical way. :/ And I guess the hardest thing for me to process is that these women haven't seemed to care what they're doing to their families and the men who supported them for the last umpteen years. None of this seems to have been done with an eye toward kindness, just "This is what makes me happy and I'm going to do it and too bad you got hurt." It hurts me to see the pain that P is going through, a man with a very strong personality being torn to shreds by one woman who doesn't seem willing to behave with kindness.

In other news I went to the submissive's meeting for the local BDSM group last week, and then a meet and greet for the whole group. I joined FetLife and have been reading intensely, and I feel strongly that I've always been submissive, I just didn't realize that you could be submissive if you didn't like pain and/or humiliation. I'm feeling awkward, though, because Easy and Asha already have a dynamic in place, and he doesn't seem to want me to be submissive--to him or anyone. I don't exactly know what to do about that, but for the time being it seems most expedient to pretend that I'm vanilla and worry about it later. It does make me sad, though.

I've had just a tiny bit of fallout from joining the group. Asha is slightly upset that we've been going to these meetings when she hasn't been able to go during her marriage to Sunday. She's been working through these feelings, but I still feel bad, and a little like I've been punished for doing something I perceive my partners needed. I've thought and I've thought, and I can't come up with another course of action that I would have felt better about, so I guess I'll just have to deal with it. I'm hoping that she'll come with me to coffee on Thursday and meet some of the other subs. If she doesn't come, I'll still go, because it makes me happy to be around them. I want to maybe meet some of the doms so that I can introduce Easy to them. Our attendance at the meet-n-greet did not go very well--though we saw someone we knew (since he was a little kid! How embarrassing!) there was not a lot of socializing for us.

We had a packed-full weekend, and Ocean was sick so we barely saw Asha and Sunday. Sunday seemed so tired and so down that I couldn't help being affectionate to him. I patted his head a little and hugged him, giving him whatever support and encouragement I could. When I left him in the kitchen, I walked into the living room to find Easy on the chair and Asha in his lap. I hesitated, not knowing if I was interrupting something, but I didn't want to seem like I thought they were doing something wrong or like I was hiding, so I went in the living room. While I was trying to decide if I should try to climb in his lap as well (would Asha feel like I was trying to steal her time with him? Copy her? Push her out of the way?) she got up. Yet another opportunity missed.

I spent yesterday full of anxiety and with almost non-stop stomach pain, so today I am taking off from responsibility. Well, as much as I can. Which is how I've had time to make such a long post.
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  #40  
Old 10-04-2010, 04:59 PM
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Another packed-full weekend. We spent time running errands, both separately and as the big family. Sunday is miserable with allergies, and we discussed how moving might help him. Apparently, for a few years after you move to a new area, you have some allergy relief. I don't want to move while my kids are still at home--I have family in the area and I want my kids to have that support network. My grandmother is 90, and I don't think I could live with myself if I didn't see her.

Saturday night, Ocean invited herself over for a sleepover :P. She was making me crazy, talking back and misbehaving, until the second her parents left, and then she was pretty much an angel. I think my kids behave like this, too--they're better for other people when I'm not there. She even let us sleep in the next morning, which was *very* nice because at about 1am I suddenly had this feeling of dread and I was scared that something was going to happen to one of the kids, so I had to keep checking on them. Easy was a super husband and took over the duties after the umpteenth check.

On Sunday, Sunday took Moose to the library to help him with his homework, while the rest of us took our dogs to a charity dog wash. Then we all headed to Asha and Sunday's house for dinner. At one point, the guys were all at the kitchen counter, helping Moose with a chemistry question, and Asha and the kids and I were at the table, attempting to assemble a foam haunted house decoration, and Asha looked up at me and said, "How can we all live in one house, so that we can do this? So that they can be over there helping with homework and we can help with crafts and we can be a family?" It was heart-wrenching.

I have to say it was a good night, though. At one point, I was bent over, putting dishes in a cabinet, and Asha smacked my butt. I laughed and protested but kept up what I was doing. Then Easy smacked my butt! I threw a fit and refused to bend over again, but no one would put the dishes up so I gave in and went back to work. Then, just as I finished and was standing up, Sunday whacked me! I was shocked. First, it was funny. Second, Sunday smacked my butt?? Pod people.
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