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  #61  
Old 01-29-2012, 04:05 AM
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Sexual surrogates only work with clients who are referred to them by other mental health professionals, who supervise the interactions. They don't accept walk-ins. The surrogate’s relationship with the client is always temporary, has a specific goal, must remain within the context of the therapeutic situation, and is under close supervision of the therapist. Often times, depending on the client's issues/problems, no sex takes place at all (a surrogacy therapy session might involve only holding hands or getting undressed, for example). Just so you know it isn't just fun and games or prostitution with another name.
Admittedly, I was unaware there were so many restrictions on it, but I did know that it wasn't for the purpose of "fun and games" as you put it.
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  #62  
Old 01-29-2012, 04:23 AM
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Not just me. I just quoted a passage from a former sex worker, and I think she's essentially saying what I'm trying to convey.
Yeah, I know, but one sex worker can't speak for all or even a majority of sex workers. Most are very unemotional about their work. They would have to be - it is common sense if you have many customers.
I have no idea how emotional she was about her work. I just said "I can't really imagine the job of a sex worker as being "the same as with any job" and I think she felt that way as well.

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That I can agree with. I'm just saying that it's not like most other jobs, primarily because of the fact that it's usually not a legal profession.
What does legality have to do with it?
Illegal jobs aren't like legal jobs. I think the former sex worker I quoted does a good job of explaining why.

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When you have a finite amount of time to perform a service in exchange for money, it is just like any other job.
Sure, but that's not the point I'm trying to make.

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I do believe that sex work is generally much more intimate then virtually any other job, though. The only one that I can think of that can equal and at times surpass it is that of therapists and (some) teachers... I find it very interesting that therapy and sex work are melding in some ways, in the form of sexual surrogates, and sexual workshops.
Intimate in some ways, not so in others. Have you read this thread about one member of this forum's experience with a hooker in Amsterdam? : Prostitutes and/or One Night Stands (I linked to his post about it but the thread is pretty long)
Thanks for sharing that link with me. I think I'll be taking a look at its posts. I've read the experience you linked to now. Thank God I didn't get a sex worker that would berate me for not getting it up enough :-p. No haggling for money while the sexual interaction was happening either; she told me the price for sex before anything even started; I told her how much I had (which was less then what she'd asked for) and she settled for what I had.

I actually didn't ejaculate in my own experience; in all honesty, I've never ejaculated when using a condom. But after some time, I just signalled that it was enough time trying (I didn't have a set time limit, this was Mexico) and that was that.

Last edited by Scott; 01-29-2012 at 04:25 AM.
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  #63  
Old 01-30-2012, 11:25 AM
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Back in post 13 in this thread, I mentioned that I had emailed Franklin, the author of the Poly Map, asking him to take a look at what we've said about his Poly Map here. He has now done so. He has also agreed to let me quote him, so here goes...

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I did--finally!--get a chance to read through the thread you linked to. It's always interesting to see how people respond to the map.

I definitely get the feeling that a lot of folks read it in a prescriptive way--that is, that what it's doing is it's setting out boxes that relationships have to fit into. The bits marked with Xes are actually intended to be examples, not prescriptions; for example, the area that says "I am a prodomme" is one possible way that a person might intersect with commerce, polyamory, and BDSM. (A prodomme is not likely to be polyamorous with her clients, but most of the prodommes I've met personally do self-identify as polyamorous...they're not in relationships with their clients, but they have more than one rlationship outside of work.) It's certainly not intended to say "all prodommes are poly," nor "the only place where BDSM, commerce, and polyamory overlap is with prodommes."

The purpose of the map is descriptive, not prescriptive; its intent is to say "This is some of the ways that different forms of non-monogamy can overlap," not "You have to be one of the things marked on this map if you're not monogamous." It's been my experience, definitely, that folks who object to labels are quite likely to object to any effort to show, even humorously, the way that different labels intersect; a person who tends to view labels prescriptively is quite likely to view overlaps the same way, seems to me.

A lot of folks seem to voice the opinion that the map should have a large circle around the whole thing that says "non-monogamy". Since the domain of the map is non-monogamy, that seemed redundant to me when I made it; it seems a bit like drawing a large circle around the outside of a map of the earth saying "earth."

There definitely are changes that could be made to the map. For example, "Commerce" could be extended across the top to intersect with "religious/social polygamy;" there are some traditions in which women are, for example, sold to their husbands, or expected to provide a dowry to their husbands.

I actually put the "religious/social polygamy" bit separate because I see a pretty significant difference between cultures which allow plural marriage and cultures which don't. Either the law permits such marriages (whether generally or in limited circumstances) or it doesn't; the fact that some people are happy in arranged marriages and some aren't doesn't change that, I think.

And finally, I don't know quite what to say about the fact that there are people who dislike me because other people like me. I just call things like I see 'em; the fact that a lot of folks see 'em the same way and refer to what I've written, and that makes some other folks not like me, strikes me as a bit...um, weird.
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  #64  
Old 01-30-2012, 04:53 PM
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Well, I didn`t think he was personally a douchebag. As I said, 'Not his fault, just another bloke with an opinion'.

Now thats changed. What an idiot. It`s scary to think people follow this guy.
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  #65  
Old 01-30-2012, 05:27 PM
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Well, I didn`t think he was personally a douchebag. As I said, 'Not his fault, just another bloke with an opinion'.

Now thats changed. What an idiot. It`s scary to think people follow this guy.
Um.. can you please point out what you didn't like about his response?
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  #66  
Old 01-30-2012, 05:31 PM
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Um.. can you please point out what you didn't like about his response?
Can`t really be bothered Scott. Anyone wanting to know, can read over what I put, then his version.

Sometimes it`s hard to read when people disagree with me, because I respect their opinion. This isn`t one of those times.
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  #67  
Old 01-30-2012, 05:47 PM
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Um.. can you please point out what you didn't like about his response?
Can`t really be bothered Scott.
I see.

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Anyone wanting to know, can read over what I put, then his version.
Can you link the post you're referring to atleast?

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Sometimes it`s hard to read when people disagree with me, because I respect their opinion. This isn`t one of those times.
Meanwhile, I don't even know what the disagreement is -.-
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  #68  
Old 02-01-2012, 01:18 AM
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I guess it depends what you mean by "relationship orientation" but I disagree with your statement. Some people are wired to only be satisfied in a D/s type of romantic relationship. If that's not a "relationship orientation" then the term "relationship orientation" is poorly defined and meaningless.
It could very well be a vocabulary issue, yes. What I mean is that to me, the mono-poly spectrum and the BDSM-vanilla spectrum are completely different, and it seems to me including BDSM as part of the chart would be like including, say, bisexuality into the chart. Sure, they can happen together, but I think it's overcomplicating the chart. Lots of things can happen in non-monogamy and that doesn't mean they each should have their own place on the graph.
Doesn't mean they don't exist or aren't valid, I just think that such a graph should be clear and accessible, and that adding every possible option would make it completely unreadable. And it seems obvious to me the author added things that were relevant to him (BDSM being one of them) while they are not really one of the main categories. In that they can overlap with pretty much everything else in that graph, from commercial sex (hiring a dom) to open relationship to swinging to poly... At that point it's just a different spectrum and not part of the nonmonogamy one, just like you wouldn't put categories for straight, gay or bi because they could span almost the whole thing (with the exception of religious unions which might have gender restrictions).
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  #69  
Old 02-01-2012, 02:06 AM
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...it seems obvious to me the author added things that were relevant to him (BDSM being one of them) while they are not really one of the main categories. In that they can overlap with pretty much everything else in that graph, from commercial sex (hiring a dom) to open relationship to swinging to poly... At that point it's just a different spectrum and not part of the nonmonogamy one, just like you wouldn't put categories for straight, gay or bi because they could span almost the whole thing (with the exception of religious unions which might have gender restrictions).
Hm, I think you may have a point there; it may well be that Franklin's non monogamous Map does have some bias towards what his own non monogamous relationships look like.
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  #70  
Old 02-01-2012, 05:10 AM
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It's likely just a part of human nature to bias things that you create towards your own reality. I guess that means the map will ring true to those who have a life experience similar to the creator of the map. Personally, I get overloaded with too much going on in a graphic (I can't read comic books either).
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