Polyamory.com Forum  

Go Back   Polyamory.com Forum > Polyamory > General Poly Discussions

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #41  
Old 01-29-2010, 12:10 AM
Ravenesque's Avatar
Ravenesque Ravenesque is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: New York
Posts: 297
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrunkenPorcupine View Post
I've felt marginalized by both the poly and "mainstream" communities because of my age. Many mono folk think I'm in "a phase" or "testing the waters". I've even had one person say that "You're not really poly, you're just... not sure what it is you want".
Within this thread alone, young people have been described as bragging, emotionally immature, not respecting their bodies by being sexual, not having experience or knowledge of a "rich" nature etc. These have been offered as reasons not to date or have sex with young people or join groups created by them.

Though these descriptions may be attributed to human beings of any age, it is being overwhelmingly laid on young people here. Only within this forum and within this thread. Does anyone else think views like this are restricted only to this space?

There are many who believe such dismissive and condescending attitudes towards younger people is perfectly justified. This is a bite of it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DrunkenPorcupine View Post
I've also felt marginalized by the older poly communities because my idea of healthy relationships don't include "families" and children, both things credited to me being "young and naive" apparently. Also, partly because my idea "structure" seems to be evolving. Specifically, I feel as if I'm moving away from the "primary/secondary" structure and some people seem to think this evolution is indicative of being... whatever it is they think it is.
Oh dear. I've encountered this as well. And the oft encountered "you may find you change your mind when you get older and experience more" i.e. you'd make the same decision as they did when you reach their age. Acknowledgment and respect for your views are not given only haughty dismissal and devaluation of your perspective. I've watched incredulously as one who was older than me clung to age and "experience" as the foundation for disagreement in a discussion only to completely change tune when the same view I expressed was given by another closer in age. Suddenly age and experience were not the center of the rebuttal and the ideas put forth were finally engaged.

Poly In The News highlighted young polys, many of who are organizing on the college level and developing their relationships from the start with all knowing that it would be open in nature. It is the approach I have taken with all of my relationships even from before I knew what polyamory was. Non-hierarchical polyamory fits me best and I don't subscribe to notions of veto. Naive popped up because of my views on this and charges that I'd change my mind with age and experience of course. Parallels are often made equating younger with idealistic and older with realistic, the former being described as a negative and the latter being described as a positive. The same occurs with inexperience/experience and wisdom. These concepts do not inherently link to each other. It is possible to have an unrealistic and unwise older person with loads of experience. There is a clear bias in regards to young people here.

In regards to experience, I'd take a quality over quantity approach anytime. And quality and value is in the eye of the beholder.

The negative experiences I have had have not been with those for which family and children are very important in their life. It is has been with those who take a rather conservative stance generally in connection to family and children and how that relates to their polyamory. It's another case of some poly people are this and some poly people or that. Some poly people with families are open minded and progressive and some aren't. I wouldn't drag a broad brush across all poly people with families and children generally though.

~Raven~
__________________
Are you a polyamorist or non-monogamous individual between the ages 18-35? Are you located in New York State or the Northeast?
Join us at The Network, a social and socially aware network which connects young polys and progressive polys of all ages.



~Open up your mind and let me step inside.
Rest your weary head and let your heart decide. It's so easy.
When you know the rules.
It's so easy. All you have to do is fall in love.
Play the game.
Everybody play the game of love. Yeah...~

Last edited by Ravenesque; 01-29-2010 at 02:21 AM. Reason: One line
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 01-29-2010, 03:06 AM
quila quila is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 39
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravenesque View Post
Within this thread alone, young people have been described as bragging, emotionally immature, not respecting their bodies by being sexual, not having experience or knowledge of a "rich" nature etc. These have been offered as reasons not to date or have sex with young people or join groups created by them.
I know I'm not responsible for all those comments, but I did use the word "brag" in an earlier post, so I'm going to jump on that... you've completely taken it out of context. From what I remember of the other comments, none of them were generalizations about all young people or all young poly people. And for any negative trait you can imagine, everyone's going to have examples from all walks of life of people who have that trait.

I am "young people" and it would be silly of me to call myself, or my age group, braggers. What I said was that some people brag about how mature they think they are, and that I generally take that as a sign of immaturity or at the very least, arrogance, no matter how old the person is...
__________________
I do not need a label to define me. Labels are sticky and I hate the glue they leave behind.
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 01-29-2010, 01:42 PM
CielDuMatin's Avatar
CielDuMatin CielDuMatin is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Upstate New York, USA
Posts: 1,456
Default

I do my best not to see age - I see the person.

I know young people and old people who are incredibly wise and have life experiences that I couldn't even get close to - I look up to them, and appreciate whatever they are willing to teach me.

I know young people and old people who either don't have any experience or don't learn from their mistakes who nevertheless feel that their way of doing everything is right and that everyone should listen to them, because it should be right for everyone.

Neither the old nor the young have a monopoly on either wisdom or stupidity.

When I consider who to look up to, I take a look at what I can see of their experiences and successes. If I am looking to learn car maintenance I first want to look at whether the person has a car, and what sort of condition that car is in. I am not going to take advice on how to maintain my car from someone who has never owned one and had read books on the subject. I can read those same books, if I want - it's practical advice that I value. I really don't care what age that person is.

In another thread where this same subject of the value of experience was brought up, the parallel of asking Elizabeth Taylor for advice on marriage was brought up - no, I wouldn't listen to her, because it's pretty obvious that she hasn't had that many good marriages, judging by the speed at which she got/gets through them. Yes, she has lots of experience, but obviously hasn't found a way to learn from it and have good, stable marriages.

In the same way, I know people who have had many horrible poly relationships that were barely functional - I wouldn't exactly look to them for advice on how to make poly work (maybe for advice on how NOT to, though - it's all good learning, right?)

This really has zero to do with age.

I have actually found that I tend to learn more from people younger than me, for what it's worth.
__________________
Please check out The Birdcage - an open, friendly Polyamory forum for all parts of New York State
http://www.thebirdcage.org/

"Listen, or your tongue will make you deaf." - Native American Proverb
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 01-29-2010, 04:30 PM
GroundedSpirit GroundedSpirit is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: New England USA
Posts: 1,231
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravenesque View Post
..... But I realize that not all poly people are open-people. Some are majorly closed and even prejudiced. There are a myriad of people who practice polyamory with all the same flaws as anyone else. It is just one aspect that determines compatibility even as friends.

Sometimes people must create the open spaces they wish to see in the world when they do not exist.
I think there's some sage wisdom in this.
But even more so, it seems to me that a lot of this unrest - dis-ease (yes it is disease) is reflective of the troubling state of affairs we have around us.
When we get fearful it's much more natural to grasp at more of the 'tribe' mentality. A strength in numbers thing. Security.
And it is a scary situation right now, especially for younger groups that maybe don't have as many solid points of reference to refer to for guidance. The desire for support is natural.
But it's scary for EVERYONE ! And the emphasis for tribe (community) is on ! But as Raven pointed out, these tribes are going to be made up of people with a variety of personalities, worldviews etc.
And it's worth noting the history of tribalism. Peaceful coexistence has been the exception to the rule of competition & war. Just hope we've learned that lesson and proceed accordingly.

GS
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 01-29-2010, 07:14 PM
quila quila is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 39
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cieldumatin View Post
neither the old nor the young have a monopoly on either wisdom or stupidity.
qft!!!
__________________
I do not need a label to define me. Labels are sticky and I hate the glue they leave behind.
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 01-30-2010, 03:23 AM
Ravenesque's Avatar
Ravenesque Ravenesque is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: New York
Posts: 297
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by quila View Post
From what I remember of the other comments, none of them were generalizations about all young people or all young poly people. And for any negative trait you can imagine, everyone's going to have examples from all walks of life of people who have that trait.

Who stated that "generalizations about all young people or all young poly people" were being made? I always find it interesting when people expose what is being done without even an accusation being placed. And so defensively too. I wonder what the reaction would have been if someone else actually did point out what you've highlighted yourself.

What I stated was that several decidedly unflattering traits were used to describe young people overwhelmingly in this thread. There was no cross section or the barest pretense of "these are traits all human beings regardless of age may have."


Quote:
Originally Posted by quila View Post
I am "young people" and it would be silly of me to call myself, or my age group, braggers.

It's NOT a given that someone of one age group would not speak negatively about that age group.

It seems silly to make such an assumption.

Some people don't think gay people would speak out negatively against gay community. Seems silly no. Who would do such a thing? *gasp*

Yet we have people in various intimate relations with others of the same sex, who then return to work and make homophobic jokes, return to the campaign trail or the pulpit and rail vehemently against the evils of homosexuality. Imagine that.

Another example is that the Republican party doesn't support gay rights but you can bet your bottom dollar that there are gay Republicans.

Buying into mainstream ideals and connotations can lead many to buy into negative concepts of what their personal value, their self-worth actually is. This can lead to anything from low self esteem to genuine self hatred. This influences their behavior, relations to other people, and how they feel they measure up, ex. "I'm so lowly and you're so much better than me" in some form. This can apply to age as it can apply to any other part of a person's identity.

Where some may state they can learn a lot from those who are older because of experience, I state I can learn a lot from my own experience and the experiences of people generally whether it is someone older or younger or the same age as me.

Quality matters not quantity. You can have a whole lot of shit. You can also have a single precious morsel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by quila View Post
What I said was that some people brag about how mature they think they are, and that I generally take that as a sign of immaturity or at the very least, arrogance, no matter how old the person is...
Hmm, what you actually said was:

Quote:
Originally Posted by quila View Post
I've met a lot of young people who brag about "how mature" they are due to some life circumstances that have forced them to "grow up" fast... And inevitably, I find them to behave much less mature than those who admit to their immaturity.
As I said, in addition to other statements, young people were the focus of these negative traits and assessments and not even the barest of pretense to speak of these flaws (if some of the things mentioned were flaws) as something people generally have no matter the age.




So as far as the "purpose" of this thread...

For those who expressed concern, I do wonder if they've delved at all below the surface into the young poly community and its numerous endeavors. Any effort at all? Anything not superficial? If so, it definitely hasn't been reflected here.

Constantly it's been requested that information be brought to those trying to "understand better" and "ameliorate" possible marginalization. Can you tell me what's wrong? Can you have others tell me what's wrong? I know people who don't think anything's wrong, can you prove it? Oh well, if you won't tell me then I guess I'll never know.

Even when suggestions were given on how to start addressing marginalization, these were ignored and not followed up upon, illustrating the actual level of concern involved here.


Statements of wanting poly communities to be inclusive to all ages as opposed to young polys starting their own groups were put forth only to be contradicted by statements that poly communities don't fit everyone and starting creating needed spaces and groups can produce "vibrant" results.

I'd agree that the stated purpose was not achieved.

~Raven~
__________________
Are you a polyamorist or non-monogamous individual between the ages 18-35? Are you located in New York State or the Northeast?
Join us at The Network, a social and socially aware network which connects young polys and progressive polys of all ages.



~Open up your mind and let me step inside.
Rest your weary head and let your heart decide. It's so easy.
When you know the rules.
It's so easy. All you have to do is fall in love.
Play the game.
Everybody play the game of love. Yeah...~
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 01-30-2010, 01:22 PM
CielDuMatin's Avatar
CielDuMatin CielDuMatin is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Upstate New York, USA
Posts: 1,456
Default

Since I started this thread, I will respond:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravenesque View Post
For those who expressed concern, I do wonder if they've delved at all below the surface into the young poly community and its numerous endeavors. Any effort at all? Anything not superficial? If so, it definitely hasn't been reflected here.
Yes I have and I would suggest that others do the same, if they haven't already.

Quote:
Constantly it's been requested that information be brought to those trying to "understand better" and "ameliorate" possible marginalization.
Constantly? You're talking about one thread and several posts by me in this thread, asking the question in different ways.

Quote:
Can you tell me what's wrong? Can you have others tell me what's wrong? I know people who don't think anything's wrong, can you prove it? Oh well, if you won't tell me then I guess I'll never know.
The purpose of conversation is to have an exchange of experiences, so that we can learn from them. If people don't choose to share their experiences then we can't learn from them. This was an invitation to share experiences, which you appear to have taken to be an insult. I haven't asked anyone to "prove it" on this thread, nor has anyone else, so I don't know where you are getting that from. This was an invitation to a conversation.

Quote:
Even when suggestions were given on how to start addressing marginalization, these were ignored and not followed up upon, illustrating the actual level of concern involved here.
And how, exactly, would you know who followed up on what?

Quote:
Statements of wanting poly communities to be inclusive to all ages as opposed to young polys starting their own groups were put forth only to be contradicted by statements that poly communities don't fit everyone and starting creating needed spaces and groups can produce "vibrant" results.
Once again you have mischaracterized what I said. I never said that these communities shouldn't be started - that is your interpretation of what I wrote - far from it - I have said repeatedly that I support the idea of people starting their own community to cater for needs not being met by other communities (we have indeed provided a link to your new community on our community resource page, since there is some overlap of demographic). This thread wasn't about that in any way, shape or form. It was about a very specific statement made that young polys were feeling marginalized by mainstream poly society and an attempt to get a dialogue going in order to improve on that situation. (Nor was it intended to imply that this was the only reason that the TNG network, which I linked to in the first post, was established).

I stated very clearly my original question:
Quote:
Originally Posted by CielDuMatin
So I guess the question is - how do people feel that young polys are being marginalised in the general poly community? What actions are being taken or ignored that makes them feel excluded and not able to be a part of the larger community?
Some have chosen to enter into that dialogue, which I appreciate - I think we have learned something good from it. Others have seen it as an attack which needs to be defended against, and it most certainly was not intended to be this.

I still encourage younger folk here to talk about their age-related experiences in the poly community so that we can all learn something from them and all become a little less "ageist" in our approaches.
__________________
Please check out The Birdcage - an open, friendly Polyamory forum for all parts of New York State
http://www.thebirdcage.org/

"Listen, or your tongue will make you deaf." - Native American Proverb
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 01-30-2010, 05:10 PM
GroundedSpirit GroundedSpirit is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: New England USA
Posts: 1,231
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CielDuMatin View Post
So I guess the question is - how do people feel that young polys are being marginalised in the general poly community? What actions are being taken or ignored that makes them feel excluded and not able to be a part of the larger community?
Ciel,
Yea, so to address this particular question more specifically I can only say that from what I've seen both in person and on this forum, I can't see that any subset of the poly community is "BEING" marginalized.
However, I guess I can see the potential for some "FEELING" marginalized maybe because a particular range of topics and conversations seem to lie outside what their current life entails. On this forum for example, I have seen a wide range of different people and questions or concerns and it seems there is representation for all those various niches to engage on whatever that particular place/level is. That could well be not the case in other places. In the poly realm I can see that 'potential' to some degree in an age framework. Most young people are just at that place where they are discovering and exploring their sexuality and the whole tangle of what a 'relationship' even means to them. Obviously their concerns (day-to-day) will be of a different nature than others who have been climbing those hills longer and at a different time & place.
So I do respect & support - like most do - people's need for finding a place (or creating one) that seems to offer more material or conversation that is relevant to their particular point in life. But the danger in this may be in exclusivity. And that's a tendency of a member of any group - that they feel they have found their 'home' so to speak and no longer have a need to keep an eye open for other important information that may be relative - if not at the very moment - but some time in the not too distant future.

Maybe a mountain climbing analogy..................?
You feel an attraction to climb - or at least a curiosity about what all the buzz about it really is . You start on some of your tiny local hills & mountains and discover some of what the fascination is. But you trip on a root and sprain your ankle once or twice. Maybe even get lost and have to be rescued. But you catch the bug. It feels right to you.
But in trying to get some climbing & hiking tips (at this level), conversing with an experienced Everest climber may not be just what's in order. What you really need is some advice on good boots and GPS units.
But always in the back of your mind is (or should be) the fact that someday, if you keep the interest, you will grow beyond your small local range. And that's when what you may have learned, or resources you have discovered will come to be important.
So by all means go look for your boots. But be aware that if you happen to find yourself in a seasonal climb and run into snow, what you learned about the difference between boots (or clothing etc) for cold weather protection and ice conditions may have been a wise investment in the first place. And even if not - and you survive with both feet attached- you know where you need to go next. And that you don't have to give up your love because of a snowstorm.

Hope that makes sense.............

GS

Last edited by GroundedSpirit; 01-30-2010 at 05:13 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 01-30-2010, 05:46 PM
Ravenesque's Avatar
Ravenesque Ravenesque is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: New York
Posts: 297
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CielDuMatin View Post
Yes I have and I would suggest that others do the same, if they haven't already.
That's terrific! Perhaps you can enrich the thread a little with what you've discovered pertaining to marginalization and young polys. Any suggestions and questions on helping young polys with the issues, needs, and interests they seek to address? Did you find out what those issues, needs and interests were? Any suggestions on how the poly community can be allies to the younger of it's members?

I'm sure many would be interested. You've highlighted exchanging views but have not brought any to the table in regards to this topic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CielDuMatin View Post
Constantly? You're talking about one thread and several posts by me in this thread, asking the question in different ways.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CielDuMatin View Post
And how, exactly, would you know who followed up on what?
I was already clear that I was speaking about this thread. But I'll try to be clearer for you.

Suggestions were raised within this thread. Those
suggestions were not given response within this thread but rather ignored and not followed up on within this thread. No engagement was attempted within this thread. The same question was repeated and repeated within this thread.

How does this constant repetition constitute conversation and exchange of ideas?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CielDuMatin View Post
The purpose of conversation is to have an exchange of experiences, so that we can learn from them. If people don't choose to share their experiences then we can't learn from them. This was an invitation to share experiences, which you appear to have taken to be an insult. I haven't asked anyone to "prove it" on this thread, nor has anyone else, so I don't know where you are getting that from. This was an invitation to a conversation.
Hmm...

Quote:
Originally Posted by CielDuMatin View Post
So if you are in the demographic (18-35 years old) could you talk a little about whether you feel marginalized in the general community and, if so, how?
Quote:
Originally Posted by CielDuMatin View Post
We have a lot of 30-somethings in our group, and several 20-somethings. They seem to be quite comfortable mixing and I don't sense any divide.

This is why I want to know more about this, so that we don't fall into the trap of biasing things against the younger demographic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CielDuMatin View Post
I think the idea of my post is to understand better how they do feel marginalised and to maybe put some corrective actions in place to maybe ameliorate that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CielDuMatin View Post
* discuss how younger poly folk may be feeling marginalised (something that was claimed to be the case in another thread) by "mainstream" (whatever that is) poly society, in an effort to reduce that. (this thread)
Quote:
Originally Posted by CielDuMatin View Post
Good - any ideas on this? You made the comment in the other thread about the marginalization - so presumably you know some who feel that way - maybe you could invite them to this thread? Or maybe gather a summary of their views, if they don't feel comfortable posting, so that we can all get a better understanding of this issue.
**

Quote:
Originally Posted by CielDuMatin View Post
So far I'm not sure that we are making any progress and you're right, Ceoli, maybe this isn't the right place, because those that are truly marginalized by this forum have already left.
**

Quote:
Originally Posted by CielDuMatin View Post
I was just trying to make one small step (and I agree, Ceoli, not the only one necessary) to try to mend any sort of wall which may be there. The first step is talking about it, and exchanging views.
**

Quote:
Originally Posted by CielDuMatin View Post
If you have a better suggestion, I'd be glad to hear it.
**

Quote:
Originally Posted by CielDuMatin View Post
I had hoped that creating a dialogue here would go a small way to encouraging cross-generational poly folk to air whatever discomforts they have, in order to start the work of improving communications.
Was your sole method of delving into marginalization of young polys and methods of remedying this, your sole method of "knowing more," asking one question "How do you feel marginalized?" over and over and over again. Was this your only way of "better understanding this issue?"

You've not brought anything else to the "dialogue" but that one question. Oh and that you've not seen any divide elsewhere. Not what you've learned about the young poly community and it's activities, and how that has affected your view on this topic or what you'd suggest to form a more inclusive community.

** Ceoli gave suggestions in response to your request for them. What was your response to those suggestions? Well there were none. Why was that?

When she stated that the best approach would be for those who feel included, but are concerned, to ask themselves the question, "How can we bring more people to the table to talk about it?" you asked her to supply you with the answer.

Later an important point made was the following:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceoli View Post
Plus, experience has taught me that just asking a marginalized group without doing the groundwork of self-examination often just results in marginalizing that group further. Basically, if a person generally feels uncomfortable or unwelcome in a group, they're not always going to be so forthcoming when just flat out asked what their problem is. (Just to be clear, I'm illustrating a dynamic, not a synopsis of how everyone may or may not react.)

I find that there must be steps made to show that a group is seriously looking to address the issues before people feel that their marginalized views will be listened to.
Though quila highlighted brilliantly a difficulty that can be run up against in clique-ism, one form where marginalization of others takes place:

Quote:
Originally Posted by quila View Post
I used to be a very active member of my city's BDSM "community" and I found exactly the cliquism GS was talking about. They also had an online forum, and I always found that any new people who didn't meet their criteria was ostracised and made to feel like a freak. That's exactly what you don't need when you're coming out of the closet and you already feel like a weirdo.

Ceoli also did not state that those who felt marginalized had already left the forum therefore it wasn't the right place. No one brought up marginalization within this forum at all but you. Marginalization within the poly community was the topic.

Her point was remarkably clear that regardless of whether marginalized members stay or go, if inclusiveness is a goal of the group, if inclusiveness holds importance, then inclusiveness will be sought even if those members aren't there which then creates a welcoming space. Issues would be examined and addressed regardless. If inclusiveness is not important than it makes sense that no effort would be made or worse fought against.

I've found groups and organizations, even churches (UUs being one ) where there is such an amazing drive to affirm and include human beings of all walks. Through self-examination and examination of the world around them. It is not considered "futile" because there are no members who reflect this background, that age group or those views. Inclusiveness and knowledge of how to be inclusive is sought. That is what is important. Perhaps it is not a skill or passion that can be taught to those who just give up because they do not truly care to be inclusive.

~Raven~
__________________
Are you a polyamorist or non-monogamous individual between the ages 18-35? Are you located in New York State or the Northeast?
Join us at The Network, a social and socially aware network which connects young polys and progressive polys of all ages.



~Open up your mind and let me step inside.
Rest your weary head and let your heart decide. It's so easy.
When you know the rules.
It's so easy. All you have to do is fall in love.
Play the game.
Everybody play the game of love. Yeah...~
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 01-30-2010, 05:46 PM
Ravenesque's Avatar
Ravenesque Ravenesque is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: New York
Posts: 297
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CielDuMatin View Post
Once again you have mischaracterized what I said. I never said that these communities shouldn't be started - that is your interpretation of what I wrote - far from it - I have said repeatedly that I support the idea of people starting their own community to cater for needs not being met by other communities (we have indeed provided a link to your new community on our community resource page, since there is some overlap of demographic). This thread wasn't about that in any way, shape or form. It was about a very specific statement made that young polys were feeling marginalized by mainstream poly society and an attempt to get a dialogue going in order to improve on that situation. (Nor was it intended to imply that this was the only reason that the TNG network, which I linked to in the first post, was established).
Quote:
Originally Posted by CielDuMatin View Post
The statement was made that young polys are being marginalized, and that new communities (the TNG networks, http://www.cpn-tng.org/wiki/ ) are being formed to cater to this age group.

So I guess the question is - how do people feel that young polys are being marginalised in the general poly community? What actions are being taken or ignored that makes them feel excluded and not able to be a part of the larger community?

My preference would be to make sure that polys of all ages are included in the general community and understanding what the issues are might help everyone become more aware and inclusive. I think we can all learn from this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CielDuMatin View Post
There are many poly communities and online groups out there, each with their own styles of leadership and "feel" - I personally think that that is a great idea, because it most definitely isn't a case of "one size fits all"
...


- if you can't find one that fits, chances are you are not alone, and starting one that you do feel you fit in with may well create a whole new vibrant community.
I quoted you so your accusations of "mis-characterization" can be placed in the context of your own words as you might have forgotten what you wrote.

As far as I can tell, all poly communities are apart of the "larger" or the entire poly community whatever their aim, focus or take on polyamory. By that merit the poly community is inclusive of all poly people. There is something for everyone and if not, someone will create it thereby creating spaces for poly people within the entire poly community.

What and who are you referring to when you state some feel they cannot be apart of the "larger community?" Do you see the creation of poly groups as seeking to be separate from the "larger community?"

Marginalization within particular poly groups may occur along various lines. The type of marginalization which occurs can be the same in more than one group or different. There might be more people of one view than another who then aggressively stamp out differing views. The topics which cause divides can be noted in several poly spaces. How these issues are dealt with depends on whether inclusiveness is being sought.

What is the relevance of communities being listed on your community's page? I am uncertain how that relates to the topic you started the thread on. Perhaps you can explain.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CielDuMatin View Post
Some have chosen to enter into that dialogue, which I appreciate - I think we have learned something good from it. Others have seen it as an attack which needs to be defended against, and it most certainly was not intended to be this.

I still encourage younger folk here to talk about their age-related experiences in the poly community so that we can all learn something from them and all become a little less "ageist" in our approaches.
It is interesting that you see questions and suggestions as responses to attack. You are the only one who has characterized your thread as an attack which needs to be defended against. Hmm.

You continue to ask others to teach you what the problem is so you can change your approach and still have not brought anything of your own efforts in learning about young poly communities and the issues addressed by them to the discussion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceoli View Post
First, I would suggest that putting responsibility on a marginalized group to somehow "un-marginalize" themselves by teaching everyone else how not to marginalize them tends not to work. I've found that the best way to succeed in being more inclusive is for the dominant group to *first* do some hard self-examination.

Next, if I was doing a training on this, I would ask the participants to to make a list of all of their assumptions and perceptions of people who are young and poly. This is often a hard thing to accomplish because people can be very unwilling to admit what assumptions they carry (even to themselves). This is a hard process that has to involve some brutal honesty.

Then we'd examine how those assumptions we make (whether correct or incorrect) manifest in what we say or what culture is created in the larger group.

Those are just some first steps.
Very important first steps I agree.

~Raven~
__________________
Are you a polyamorist or non-monogamous individual between the ages 18-35? Are you located in New York State or the Northeast?
Join us at The Network, a social and socially aware network which connects young polys and progressive polys of all ages.



~Open up your mind and let me step inside.
Rest your weary head and let your heart decide. It's so easy.
When you know the rules.
It's so easy. All you have to do is fall in love.
Play the game.
Everybody play the game of love. Yeah...~
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
ageism, exclusion, marginalization, tng, young

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 06:36 PM.