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  #1  
Old 01-08-2012, 10:38 AM
HappiestManAlive HappiestManAlive is offline
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Default We're THIS close to giving up on poly altogether.

We've been working on healing from Adrian's violent departure in March, Violet, Lana, and I - and it's been difficult. Lana basically shut down completely. Would spend days on end in her room, wouldn't talk to us, no matter what we asked it was always "I'm fine, nothing's wrong" - no matter how much we tried.

In September we found out Violet was pregnant. In October she miscarried.

Lana withdrew further, and we found out after basically browbeating her into talking to us that she had also had a miscarriage at about the same time.

This put a lot into perspective! She hadn't even told us she thought she might be preggers! Long talks ensued. The first in MONTHS.

And then she... Left. She would take her car and disappear for days. We knew there was another guy she liked - I encouraged her to branch out, find herself.

Longer story short - we caught her lying to us, witholding information, and - in an open, poly relationship - CHEATING!

All we asked was that we be kept in the loop and not lied too. Frankly that's the ONLY requirement ANY of us have with the others; we had spoken with her specifically about this other guy and her intentions with him. She lied, she slept with him and lied some more, she kept things from us and lied some more. And now she's spreading crap to people we know, claiming we never loved her, we abused her (WHAT?!) and that she never lied to us about anything - we only claim that because I'm jealous of the other guy (the one I talked her into dating..?), and is interfering with our social circles and even Violets work!

Violet and I are tight as ever, but the strain of Lana - the kindest, sweetest girl we've ever known - pulling this crap after everything we went through as a triad with Adrianne, after the disaster with Anne...

We're pulling the plug. There are 2 people we both would love to explore things with but neither of us has any faith left after this. We've been with Lana about a year and a half, known her for 3-4 years, and we don't know who this person is all of the sudden. Not setting myself or ourselves up for any more of this.
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Old 01-08-2012, 04:32 PM
opalescent opalescent is offline
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I'm sorry, HMA, that things have been so hard and that partners have not lived up to their word. I certainly get why you are pulling back from poly.
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  #3  
Old 01-08-2012, 05:46 PM
vermin06 vermin06 is offline
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I'm sorry this was such a terrible experience for you, but this doesn't mean you should give up on poly relationships if you really enjoy them. It wasn't polyamory's fault that this woman lied. A red flag is a quiet person who can't open up. If you find someone in your life whom you have to "brow beat" to talk, acknowledge that warning.

As hard as it may be, this is a perfect opportunity to better yourself. What signs did you miss that would have helped you see this person had some real emotional dysfunctions before getting with her? How are you dealing with the pain? Are you allowing yourself to feel the pain and to work through it? Do you feel guilty in any way? Why?

From the sounds of it, you aren't the one at fault, and I certainly hope any guilt you may feel goes away quickly. Don't let her very obvious problems with herself interfere with your choices to love in whatever manner you feel is right for you. Take some time, treat yourself with love and kindness, cry on someone's shoulder a bit, and remember who you are.
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Old 01-08-2012, 06:15 PM
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nycindie nycindie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HappiestManAlive View Post
We're pulling the plug. There are 2 people we both would love to explore things with but neither of us has any faith left after this. We've been with Lana about a year and a half, known her for 3-4 years, and we don't know who this person is all of the sudden. Not setting myself or ourselves up for any more of this.
Maybe the harem type of arrangement doesn't really work for you. It seems like a situation just ripe for imploding, especially that they've pretty much all been younger than yourself. If we go back and read over your threads, it seems it has always been so full of drama. If I were you, I'd consider just developing relationships with women to whom you are attracted, but not be so focused on having them all live together and involved with each other. And branch out, pursue different types of women, with diverse professions and interests.
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Last edited by nycindie; 01-08-2012 at 06:18 PM.
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  #5  
Old 01-10-2012, 02:04 AM
HappiestManAlive HappiestManAlive is offline
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NYC - please don't use the 'harem' reference; after what happened in one of our old threads it's flat out offensive. I'm still more than slightly pissed about how the admins handled all that as well; especially deleting other member's inflammatory posts & leaving my (sometimes our) replies.

With Anne, things went the way they did, those here who read about it from mine & violet's side have their own opinions. Whatever it was, she lied & we ended it.

With Adrianne - the drama was unreal, especially since she & Lana fought like 10 year olds (Literally. It was pathetic.). The insane drama that that whole situation brought about spilled over a bit here, so nobody is ever going to really understand how and why things went the way they did. In the end, it was again lying that finally ended it.

But Lana has always been a different case. No "moving too fast" questions. No personality conflicts (once Adrianne was gone, lol). No cowgirl issues. She lived with us as a room mate for ~18 months during which time we all became very close friends. During that time she was in no way sexual or romantic with either of us. When she decided to "opt in" to the relationship, it almost an easy and natural progression - she told us she had been thinking about it for a long time (a whole year actually) and it made sense to her on every level. We had grown to really love her and were certainly not averse to the idea!

The Adrianne debacle was hard on all of us. "Harem" crap aside - Violet & Lana liked her, saw the connection she had with me, and were all for it. None of us were looking to add another girl, including me. It just happened, and everyone was on board. When the fighting between the girls started and I got put in the middle of every petty fight (and some of them were too petty even for the aforementioned 10 year olds) it put incredible strain on all of us. I made the decision to end it with Adrianne to save our triad despite the unfairness to Adrianne and myself (without going into all the detail again, both Violet and Lana openly admit after the fact to this now as well as to some disgustingly underhanded crap that I always suspected and they always denied). It was a horridly painful experience for all of us and I have struggled with the resentment it fostered toward the two women I was still with. But push come to shove, in the end Adrianne did some things that made the breakup flat necessary anyway, regardless of her feeling justified.

I left a LOT out of the OP. No need for tons of detail. What matters is that after everything we've been through together and everything Violet & I have done & tried to do for her, Lana flat out betrayed us both, especially - and intentionally and awfully - me. We don't even know this girl anymore. We always knew she'd spread her wings some day, that she would change and grow as a person.

But literally just a couple of weeks spending time with old friends was all it took after YEARS with us. A few weeks and her speech patterns changed. Her work ethic changed. Her social habits changed. She started ditching work to get drunk with these people. Suddenly she was calling everyone "bro" and "dawg" (you cannot possibly understand just how out of character that is for her if you don't know her), and I mean everyone. She would pass on social events and holidays with our mutual friends and with us to hang with these people. She started gambling for the first time in her life. Her bills - including those she's responsible for in our house - started falling behind.

All of our mutual friends started wondering aloud to us and to her what was going on. She would get terribly offended every time anyone mentioned that she had changed since hanging out with these people, insisting that she wasn't that shallow and was her own person. She started pulling away even more.

And through all of this, we have tried nothing but to be supportive. To ask what was up, how she was feeling, what she needed from us. She literally shut us out.

And now the story is that we neglected her, ignored her feelings, left her alone for days (WE apparently left HER alone for days, in HER room, behind the door SHE kept locked) when she needed us. We wouldn't even have sex with her (let it suffice to say we haven't been sexual with her since September and it was NOT either of our ideas and in fact was something we approached her about numerous times). She felt unloved, unwanted, unneeded, left out, cast out. This is what she's telling people.

And then the thing with the other guy. She DID bring it up with us. ONCE. We discussed it. Agreements were made on both sides - HER idea. Weeks later after no updates, I asked about it. We talked for almost an hour. Agreements were reaffirmed. Reassurances given. Again - all brought up by her. She absolutely still wanted to be with us. She still loved us and considered herself our girlfriend. She did not want to leave us or move out. She was more committed to us than anything in the world and she was sorry she'd been gone so much, she would make sure to be around more, and not locked in her room.

Less than 2 weeks later - during which time we literally laid eyes on her once, talking on her phone as she ran in, grabbed some things from her room, and left - we find out what she's been telling her friends about us (see above), that she's been fucking this guy and lying about it. When confronted, she flat lost her shit. Accusations flew that we'd never heard before - that made no sense. I kicked her out of the house. She immediately started telling everyone we knew all kinds of lies and crap.

We are done with people who can't be honest and communicate. Violet and I will do our thing and go from here.

I believe in poly - academically. Poly is real and good, but people can't really do it no matter what they say. Social conditioning or whatever - everyone we know that is in poly has had horrible experience after horrible experience when all is said and done. We'll still play with others sexually I'm sure - we're both wired that way for sure, and THOSE relationships have never burned us. But this devotion to multiple partners does not work.

People hide things, even from themselves, build resentment, feel bad, etc. And when they know it's all about communication and think they're feelings aren't valid - they bury them and it gets worse. We've seen it 3 times now 1st hand and dozens of times with others we know.

It makes for good books, and bad relationships.
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  #6  
Old 01-10-2012, 02:20 AM
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BrigidsDaughter BrigidsDaughter is offline
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In your experience and from your own observations, poly may not work for you, but please do not make any overarching statements that poly doesn't work in practice.
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Old 01-10-2012, 03:01 AM
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nycindie nycindie is offline
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I apologize for using the word "harem." I didn't mean it in a derogatory way, I should have said "communal" or something like that. I don't recall the old thread, but I just have a memory of you posting about lots of fights and drama between the women you lived with. I didn't realize "harem" was a hot-button word for you. My bad.

I am sorry to hear everything crashed and burned, but with the right people who are mature, honest, and dedicated to making poly work, it does. From what I've read here, it seems that when there are more than three people involved, the key is not moving in together too soon.
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Last edited by nycindie; 01-10-2012 at 03:11 AM.
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Old 01-10-2012, 03:44 AM
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I am sorry as well that you are hurting this much and that things turned out this badly. But I have to second BrigidsDaughter to not write poly off in practice generally.

I think that there is some valid truth in NYCindie's words, concerning the number of people moving together. I am in a three person arrangement. From my point of view this was possible because my husband and I knew each other for so long, that we could be still comfortable in our relationship with each other, not stumbling over little personal insecurities and such, because we just know each other, to try and make this work with a new person in our life. The time all three of us have known each other on a friendly basis helped as well. But even so, imagining to add yet another person into this mix seems like a really difficult process to me. It would be way to early, because another person would mean another point of view, different needs, different problems and the like, and it is difficult enough to handle things on the stable basis we have got now, because things are just so new and will stay like this for years to come.

If I were to make an educated guess, it will take us at least another 5 to 10 years till we could think about doing this again. This may be different in an arrangement where you don't entangle the lifes of the persons involved this much, but I would think of it as too early to add another totally involved person into such a live-in situation as ours.

These are just my observations, maybe I will see this as inappropriate when time will prove different to me. I hope you will heal and find new security in your remaining relationship.
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  #9  
Old 01-10-2012, 05:57 AM
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AnnabelMore AnnabelMore is offline
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"Poly is real and good, but people can't really do it no matter what they say."

Wow dude, seriously? I guess I'll just discount the last 2+ years of my life and the ongoing awesome, honest relationships I'm involved in then, musta been an illusion.

Or maybe healthy poly just isn't possible when you handle things like this (from your old merged blog):

"Different things work for different people in different situations. Some people move fast, some move slow; some operate in the moment, some are more methodical. Most of us here move fast and work in the moment; always have, always will. There are upsides and downsides to each and every unique way to work. I readily ackowledge the fact that a speed bump hit at 5 mph is a very different experience than that same bump struck at 50 or 75 - but some people just can't drive 55, ya know? So you build a vehicle designed to handle large bumps at high speed, and fix whatever breaks. In my experience, those that drive slow to prevent damage also tend to take forever to repair things, lol. I drive fast, and fix shit fast when it breaks so as to get back on the road. :shrug:"

Almost everyone who's been doing poly a while and gives advice cautions those involved to go slow. If you're not willing/able to do so, is it any shock it goes poorly?

And what about this facet of your history (also from your old blog):
"Previous to this, I'd been a "serial monogamist" who couldn't figure out why his relationships always went bad, and why when I fell in love so completely and so hard I never felt fulfilled."

So, if mono doesn't work and poly doesn't work, that leaves... ???

No one deserves to be lied to, and it sucks about what happened with your OSOs. But aside from any issues with moving too fast, I'd be willing to bet it was them who were the problem and not poly, and that if you'd dated them each separately, serially, you would have still gotten drama and lies from them, just manifesting in different ways.

Why the heck would you come here just to tell us that our lives are impossible? What purpose does that serve? Try telling it to these people, for a start: http://www.cityweekly.net/utah/artic...current_page=1
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  #10  
Old 01-10-2012, 09:16 AM
HappiestManAlive HappiestManAlive is offline
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NYC - in a thread that got a little heated later on, a "well respected" member here essentially accused me of being a womanizer living out a harem fantasy. The admins decided to delete that and many other VERY insulting and inflammatory comments directed at me when I came here looking for support.

For some of teh newer members to this site; don't believe for one second that this is a truly open discussion board; disagree with the wrong person in the wrong way and you're gone. Amazingly, I wasn't banned when my temper flared - but any and all trace of what some others said to me was erased.

I am still "poly". I fall truly and deeply in love with more than one person at a time. But no - it doesn't work in reality, not in this society. I'd love to see that change - I really would. I'd also love to see fewer than 50% of mono relationships end in divorce.

Fact is, we're all quite fond of throwing THAT figure around to defend the poly lifestyle - but let's be honest - even on this forum, what's the failure percentage of poly relationships? A quick tally of who I know IRL an what I've read here over the years says way more than 50%.

So let's be real: Poly is something we'd like to see recognized and respected. But it ain't any better than anything else.
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