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  #11  
Old 01-10-2012, 09:49 AM
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SNeacail SNeacail is offline
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Sorry to hear thing imploded. It almost sounds like Lana needs to be evaluated for possible depression and/or other mental or substance issuses (just my personal opinion). Unfortunately, I've seen this before, some people don't handle things well when they want out of a relationship. Instead of just breaking up with their partner, they feel the need to make themselves appear a victim and things tend to go viral, leaving those they claimed to have loved asking WTF.

There's nothing wrong with taking some time to step back and just concentrate on you and Violet for a while. Lets face it you guys have had some really hard blows this last year. Having identified as poly in the past it's very likely you may find your self facing it again in the future, just try not to move them in.
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  #12  
Old 01-10-2012, 11:26 AM
zylya zylya is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HappiestManAlive View Post
NYC - in a thread that got a little heated later on, a "well respected" member here essentially accused me of being a womanizer living out a harem fantasy. The admins decided to delete that and many other VERY insulting and inflammatory comments directed at me when I came here looking for support.

For some of teh newer members to this site; don't believe for one second that this is a truly open discussion board; disagree with the wrong person in the wrong way and you're gone. Amazingly, I wasn't banned when my temper flared - but any and all trace of what some others said to me was erased.

I am still "poly". I fall truly and deeply in love with more than one person at a time. But no - it doesn't work in reality, not in this society. I'd love to see that change - I really would. I'd also love to see fewer than 50% of mono relationships end in divorce.

Fact is, we're all quite fond of throwing THAT figure around to defend the poly lifestyle - but let's be honest - even on this forum, what's the failure percentage of poly relationships? A quick tally of who I know IRL an what I've read here over the years says way more than 50%.

So let's be real: Poly is something we'd like to see recognized and respected. But it ain't any better than anything else.
You're criticising the system because a couple of people couldn't handle it. The lesson? Some people are pretty shit. Get used to it.

Whether it's a harem fantasy or not is irrelevent, the fact is you moved things along too fast, and got bitten. When the two (Adrianne and Lana?) were going at each other like children, that's a case of a leopard showing its spots.

The fact is, you talk about driving fast and repairing quickly, but building live-in relationship systems isn't the DRIVING of the car, it's the BUILDING of the car. You have to make sure all the pieces fit together so that they move in harmony, otherwise you won't be able to drive it at all. Fall in love quickly, fine, get into relationships quickly, fine but if you want to have a drama-free life, then you can't just throw people into a house and expect everything to go fine. It takes time to REALLY know what someone's like, and you took to making decisions within the throes of NRE, and then backwards rationalised it as you making fast decisions because that's just who you are.

Also not totally related, but if the posts insulting you got removed then that was most likely because they WERE directly insulting you. That's how a moderation system works, posts that are against the rules get removed if they're flagged for moderation.

Anyway, I'd like to point out that almost ALL of my relationships have ended, meaning I have, in your mind, a 100% failure rate (or close to it). However, not everyone measures relationship success by the time it lasts, but by the effect it has on us. It's not about it being better than anything else, it's about making the things we want THE BEST THAT THEY CAN BE. If I'm poly, then I want to know how to make poly relationships the BEST RELATIONSHIPS THEY CAN BE, whether they last for a week or the rest of my life. In fact, YOU are the one trying to make this into a mono vs poly thing, when the fact is that YOU didn't take the necessary care to ensure your relationships were steady and secure. Good screening is PARAMOUNT to the success of ANY relationship, mono, poly or otherwise, and that is where your problems started. But instead of learning your lesson, you come on here and try to spout your nonsense about how poly doesn't work. Two girls in your life couldn't deal with poly (but if you were looking you would've seen all the signs that they were clearly demonstrating) and now suddenly it's an absolute "noone can deal with poly." Get off your high horse.

You can't blame yourself for what happened, and you can't blame polyamory for what happened. All you need to do is be MORE careful when opening your heart to someone else, if you choose to do so again. But coming online to attack polyamory on a polyamory forum is not going to win you any support.
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  #13  
Old 01-10-2012, 04:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HappiestManAlive View Post
So let's be real: Poly is something we'd like to see recognized and respected. But it ain't any better than anything else.
Well, of course not. It would be silly to assert that poly is better than anything else, straight across the board for everyone. That's like expecting everyone to fit into the same size clothing. It works for those who want it to work and make the efforts to make it work, and for whom it feels right. And for many, many people, monogamy is the ideal and perfectly satisfying choice, for all the same reasons - it feels right, and the people involved work to make it work. Nobody gets it all for free.

If I recall correctly, all or most of your girlfriends have been strippers generally much younger than yourself. Perhaps limiting yourself to being involved only with young women within a certain social/professional circle is where you made your mistakes. Maybe there was competition there, immaturity, or a negative influence seeping in from their work environments which, let's admit, are not the healthiest, no matter how balanced someone is. That is why I suggested that, if you do want to have poly relationships in the future, date different types of women, maybe even your age or older, and in different professions, with various life experiences, and don't have them all living with you. Poly can work.

In the meantime, I hope you recover from the emotional impact this has had on you.

And to agree with Zylla, I also don't see a relationship ending as a failure, never have, whether poly or mono. Relationships are all learning experiences.
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An excellent blog post on hierarchy in polyamory:
solopoly.net/2014/10/31/why-im-not-a-secondary-partner-the-short-version/
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  #14  
Old 01-10-2012, 04:57 PM
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AnnabelMore AnnabelMore is offline
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I would say from my readings on this board that:

1) explosive and painful endings to troubled poly relationships (I would term this a "failure") are common (but not inevitable, could instead end up with option 2) for people that are new to poly,
2) fulfilling relationships that eventually end amicably (I would NOT call this a failure by any means) are common (but not inevitable, could instead end up with option 1) for people experienced in poly, and
3) relationships that last in the "long-term" (let's say more than three years) are rare (more common for experienced people, not impossible for new people) but certainly do happen.

In my partners' lives (G&E) I've seen this pattern of moving from failure to success -- their first poly relationship, an open triad, ended terribly. They made a lot of common mistakes, like moving their new partner in too fast and crossing boundaries. They then withdrew from poly, strengthened their marriage, and reached back out with a new wisdom and new approach, which has now led to what I have personally found to be a very healthy, honest, and functional poly vee that I wouldn't choose to edit out of my life for the world, even if it does eventually end.

Saying that poly doesn't work because it didn't work for you or your friends is a cop-out. If you know a lot of polyfolk and they've all had disastrous relationships I'd wonder if they're a very mature and healthy social circle to begin with.

After their failed triad, Eric (see sig line) said more than once "poly doesn't work". He doesn't say that anymore. He just didn't understand himself and other people well enough to make it work before. Much easier to blame the whole concept than to look within for the reasons things failed, but self-examination is the only road to progress.
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  #15  
Old 01-10-2012, 08:08 PM
polyq4 polyq4 is offline
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I guess we are the not normal then. We met this couple back in 2006, through AFF (swinging) at the time. we hooked up with them 1 night and then it was quite a number of months before we hooked up again. Then things started to progress.

A little over 4 years ago 1 half of the fourple fell in love with the other my wife and her BF, And not too long after i fell in love with my gf (my wifes, bf's wife) lol. We celebrate on anniversary this coming summer as 4 years in a true Poly relationship.

And there have been ups and downs but ....

Now there is talk about the 4 of us moving in together. but that will probably be another year of talking...

Did i start this looking for Poly, no. Am I happy we found this? Absolutely.
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  #16  
Old 01-10-2012, 08:23 PM
swmnkdinthervr swmnkdinthervr is offline
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To qualify my statements here my wife and I are only beginning to explore the possibilities of a poly relationship. I (John) am the one commenting here but may draw some on our shared experiences, while our experience here is short we have many years of real life experience!

I'm now for married the third time and incredibly happily for the first time I should add, finally having grown enough to appreciate it. I've also been involved in several long term interpersonal relationships prior to now. Frankly no matter how hard I try I can't find a single relationship that I didn't contribute to the ending of!!! I alone am to blame for the poor choices/contributions I made on my behalf, I own my part in negative behavior that contributed to the end of those relationships. In reality it takes two...three, four or more in this case to tango!

I have yet to read anything but railing against poly relationships, not any potential mistakes made by the OP, I find one sided rantings immediately suspect but the bitterness, hurt and anger are obvious to everyone reading this thread. ANY form of interpersonal relationship is open to failure, it's the people and not the form that bear the responsibility for the failure and EVERYONE contributes in one fashion or another to that failure whether they can see/accept it or not.

It's best to begin an introspective search, a self inventory if you will before flinging blame to the wind, it seems the egg always blows back in our face if we don't! JMHO

I hope your pain is short lived and that you all find eventual happiness once the hurt passes! John

Last edited by swmnkdinthervr; 01-10-2012 at 08:26 PM.
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  #17  
Old 01-10-2012, 09:51 PM
HappiestManAlive HappiestManAlive is offline
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Zylyla - Get over it? Of course. That's what we all have to do eventually, with every petty thing that happens every day. If that's how you want to be about it, than every response to every thread on these boards that's about someone's problems should be "get over it". It's the only REAL advice there is, because it's the only universally applicable behavioral necessity.

"Whether it's a harem fantasy or not" IS irrelevant, but for the reasons you state; it's irrelevant because A. - that's not the situation, and B. - because that possibility and whole issue only arose as an insult on these boards.

NYC - this is not the first time you've made some really brash assumptions about the women in my life based on their age and profession. It was presumptuous and rude then, and it is now.

Firstly - no, not all of them were dancers. For that matter, not all of them have been all that much younger than I am, in fact some have been older. You ASSume a lot, and frequently, starting with the ASSumption that what little you read here is everything you need to know to make your pronouncements. I lurk a LOT here. I am certainly not the only one you do this to.

Secondly, regarding those that ARE in that line of work, you know NOTHING about their job, what it entails, or how they handle it. Every aspect of that particular line of work varies TREMENDOUSLY from club to club within a city, even more from city to city within a given region, and even more dramatically from region to region. This is based on type of club, the way the owner/managers run said club, the other girls in a given club, the local laws, the county laws, and state laws. Even if YOU have worked as a stripper - which you have VERY obviously not - than you STILL would have no idea what the FUCK you were talking about unless you'd been a dancer in the same club and under the same management as they have. Throw in how things in the industry have changed over the years, and frankly someone who danced in the same club under the same managers 10 years ago has absolutely no idea what it's like now. In other words - get off your high horse about age and profession already.

*Unless you're completely correct, in which case I submit all females of your age and in your line of work are superior, judgmental people who make pronouncements based upon incomplete information and inaccurate assumptions.*

swimmin' - this thread and my commentary in it are not indicative or representative of everything that has gone on in fact or internally. It is a thread created to vent about one thing specifically and point out some others.

poly4 - congrats. I truly hope that it lasts and lasts and all goes well. I wouldn't go blending 401k's though. Just sayin'.

Last edited by HappiestManAlive; 01-10-2012 at 09:55 PM.
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  #18  
Old 01-10-2012, 10:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HappiestManAlive View Post
NYC - this is not the first time you've made some really brash assumptions about the women in my life based on their age and profession. It was presumptuous and rude then, and it is now... Firstly - no, not all of them were dancers. For that matter, not all of them have been all that much younger than I am, in fact some have been older.
Oy veh. Misunderstood again. I did say "all or most." And I said "if I recall correctly..." and "maybe if..." which are not concrete statements. I was going by memory. So I just tried to see where that idea came from:
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappiestManAlive View Post
...(I'm 13 years older then Violet and Lana, 10 years older than Adrian) and the fact that they're all insanely hot and their profession. They're all 3 strippers...
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappiestManAlive View Post
Violet has been stripping on and off since I met her ... Lana has also 'danced' on and off for a couple of years. My last ex was also on and off with it for 7 years and counting. I have several good friends and couple of other exes in a couple of states who either have in the past or still do... I love strippers, always have.
Sorry I misremembered. ???
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappiestManAlive View Post
You ASSume a lot, and frequently, starting with the ASSumption that what little you read here is everything you need to know to make your pronouncements.
Okay, so you're calling me an ass. Big whoop. I'm mature enough to not have any attachment to the opinions of an anonymous stranger on a message board, even though that wasn't nice. So I was wrong, okay.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HappiestManAlive View Post
Secondly, regarding those that ARE in that line of work, you know NOTHING about their job, what it entails, or how they handle it.
Well, you are wrong about that. I don't share everything about myself here, either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappiestManAlive View Post
In other words - get off your high horse about age and profession already.
I think you are so sensitive about the shit other people have given you about dating strippers that you are misreading my comments altogether. It's not about being on a high horse and looking down at strippers (I don't). If you primarily dated librarians, I'd have said "branch out," too.

None of this debate is really the point, anyway. You focused on that part of my posts instead of the part about moving lovers in too soon, which others here have reiterated as well. Most respondents have been trying to say that it isn't poly itself that doesn't work, but how you go about it and the people you choose to involve yourself with. Some see themselves as "wired" for it, and some do not. Some can make it work and some can't. But it is not polyamory per se that is the problem.

Maybe casual sex or swinging works better for you, and poly does not, and that's fine - but poly does work very well for many people out there. Again, I am sorry you've had so much drama and heartbreak since the last time we heard from you.
__________________
The world opens up... when you do.

"Oh, oh, can't you see? Love is the drug for me." ~Bryan Ferry
"Love and the self are one . . ." ~Leo Buscaglia "

An excellent blog post on hierarchy in polyamory:
solopoly.net/2014/10/31/why-im-not-a-secondary-partner-the-short-version/

Last edited by nycindie; 01-11-2012 at 12:03 AM.
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  #19  
Old 01-10-2012, 11:29 PM
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BlackUnicorn BlackUnicorn is offline
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Not really wanting to get into a pissing contest over who said what, and ready to admit I haven't read all of your blog through, this comment by Violet stood up for me:

"And frankly, I'm a god damn stripper. Manipulation and lying is in my job description." (Sorry, I don't know how to quote from another thread)

Be as it may, I think your experiences of poly have been coloured by the fact that the women you have been involved with have either very quickly moved in together with you, or have been living together with you at the point where you started your involvement. That is not how most polyfolk do relationships.

Also, if I understood correctly, all the three of your involvements besides Violet have at least started out with the assumption that they would be triads, a notoriously difficult relationship formation.

Also, did you have a D/s dynamic with Lana? I think having a live-in triad with D/s dynamics would land pretty high on my list of "Impossible poly stunts to pull", and I'm impressed it lasted as long as it did.
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  #20  
Old 01-11-2012, 02:10 AM
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Derbylicious Derbylicious is offline
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Sounds like it's a good time for you and Violet just to focus on the two of you for a while. Maybe there is poly in your future and maybe there isn't. I hear that you're really upset with the whole poly thing at the moment but it might not be time to write it off all together. You've said that you know that you're capable of loving more than one person intensely at a time. I wager that all of the relationships you've had up until now have been to prepare you for what life if going to throw your way next.
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