Polyamory.com Forum  

Go Back   Polyamory.com Forum > Polyamory > General Poly Discussions

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 01-17-2010, 05:05 PM
GroundedSpirit GroundedSpirit is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: New England USA
Posts: 1,231
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by redpepper View Post
I find it very interesting that so far it is seeming that those of us who have cheated or been cheated on seem to be so concerned about not having that happen again that we are putting perhaps MORE work into our relationships to ensure it doesn't. Could it be that for this reason there is a drop of health and benefit from having experienced cheating?
I wonder if you are right here RP ? I wonder if this is common.
If I'm understanding what you're implying here - and let's try it via a analogy.......

And this is something we see a lot ! (hope this analogy will serve...)

Let's suppose there is a fire and some people are seriously hurt. In theory the first thing we'd do is try to discover the source - the WHY of the fire. Based on what we learned we might then take steps to prevent it or reduce the risk of harm in other ways.
But this doesn't always happen !
As many times as not I've seen a rush to - for example - to rush into effect all kinds of new rules & regulations to require elaborate sprinkler systems, rules for ongoing inspections, creating positions of oversight for all this, etc etc. It may be (if lucky) only later that we stop to ask "WHY" ! Why/how did the fire occur ? If we do, maybe we discover that it was intentionally set by a someone with a grudge.
We've wasted enormous amounts of time and added additional burdens, expenses etc on everyone while we've done nothing to address the real root of the problem. In the mean time, another home is burned across town.

I'm a big WHY person ! Before I take any action I prefer to make sure I have as full an understanding as possible of what led us to a particular event/point in time. Because my first actions will be driven by that.

So when you posted the quote above - it made me wonder. Are people caught in the throes of dealing with affairs and breaches of trust sometimes (or many times) doing exactly this ? Are they rushing to institute all manner of protective mechanisms, rules, tools etc without first having even a clear understanding of the "why" behind the initial event ?
If the arsonist is still at large, will the sprinkler systems save more buildings & lives ? People still die with sprinkler systems installed even though statistically, their chances of survival are much better.

So I wonder............



GS
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 01-17-2010, 06:20 PM
LovingRadiance's Avatar
LovingRadiance LovingRadiance is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Alaska
Posts: 5,431
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by redpepper View Post
Another thing... I agree that those who cheat repetitively are in a different category somehow than those who have one offs. Something different there that I have been thinking about. Also that it all revolves around communication break down and fear to get back on it. Sometimes beacause the two people have moved away from each other, sometimes not.

Off to think more.
Good topic, enjoying reading it.

Question on this one RP.
How do you define "repetitively" vs "one off".
It's mostly curiosity-as Maca and I have discussed this as length.
I had an ongoing affair with GG.
Having no knowledge that there were other options-I found it impossible to find my way through the emotions I have for both of them....

Not excusing or saying it's right. As everyone knows Maca and I have come to our terms about it.

I was just curious.
__________________
"Love As Thou Wilt"
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 01-17-2010, 06:28 PM
LovingRadiance's Avatar
LovingRadiance LovingRadiance is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Alaska
Posts: 5,431
Default

GS-

I think the answer is yes.
People ARE so hyperfocused on avoiding the pain of a future affair, putting in place all sorts of rules and regulations in their relationships to protect themselves from that-
that they aren't finding the underlying cause of the affair
AND
they aren't enjoying their relationships either.

Gotta run-more later but my ride is here!!
__________________
"Love As Thou Wilt"
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 01-19-2010, 03:03 AM
redpepper's Avatar
redpepper redpepper is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Canada
Posts: 7,639
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LovingRadiance View Post
Good topic, enjoying reading it.

Question on this one RP.
How do you define "repetitively" vs "one off".
It's mostly curiosity-as Maca and I have discussed this as length.
I had an ongoing affair with GG.
Having no knowledge that there were other options-I found it impossible to find my way through the emotions I have for both of them....

Not excusing or saying it's right. As everyone knows Maca and I have come to our terms about it.

I was just curious.
Sorry it took a bit to answer back. I see an affair of an ongoing, repetitive sort to be one where two people knowingly meet each other behind the back of one or both of their partners with the intent to engage in having sex or being sexually connected with one another. This would be what I would think you and GG did and Mono and the woman he had an affair with. I also think repetitive cheating with several people not ones partner to fall into this category... the intent or result perhaps in this being to have sex with many people behind a partners back.

One-offs would be something like going to a bar, getting drunk and going to someones house to fuck them without a partner knowing... or in terms of having a sexual attraction that one knows and in a moment of passion having sex with them behind a partners back. This is what I have done,... the latter of these. Well, I also had several sexually charged encounters with a roommate once that lived with my boyfriend and I.

The first is more damaging perhaps in that it is over time and becomes ingrained somehow perhaps as a way of coping somehow, not facing facts or not thinking that there are any options. The second is the kind of cheating that slams a person up against a wall with themselves so much so that they could never do it again the moment was so profound. Not to way the first is not profound, but just that it isn't enough to make the people stop.

Hope that makes sense... as I'm still thinking it all over for myself. This all in an attempt to sort out how any of this can be helpful to anyone.... please challenge me as I am not necessarily comfortable with what I just said.... it's a brainstorm of sorts.
__________________
Anyone want to be friends on Facebook?
Send me your name via PM
My blog
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 01-19-2010, 03:22 AM
MonoVCPHG's Avatar
MonoVCPHG MonoVCPHG is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: In Redpepper's heart
Posts: 4,742
Default

If you engage in behavior that unwittingly hurts someone and learn from the experience, then you are human. If you continue to engage in that behavior knowing the possible outcome than you have a problem.

Everyone makes mistakes that cause damage to people in some way during their life.
The repetition of damaging behavior is not a mistake - it is a condition.

In long term affairs there is feeling and a lot of times love involved. In one night stand affairs there is genitals involved. My ex-wife used to tell me if I had an affair she would like to think it would be with someone I cared about. She hated the thought of me ruining our relationship for a random fuck brought on by loss of control. So in this case she saw it opposite.

So the question for me is which is worse - an affair out of need for connection and a relationship or one out of the need to cum.
__________________

Playing the Game of Life with Monopoly rules.
Monogamy might just be in my genes

Poly Events All Over
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 01-19-2010, 03:24 AM
LovingRadiance's Avatar
LovingRadiance LovingRadiance is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Alaska
Posts: 5,431
Default

RP, I LOVE brainstorms.
I absolutely love hearing someone think "out loud"!

I tend to agree with you on what you said at least in definition.

I don't know which is more "profound".... I wonder if maybe both are, but at a different POINT?

I know for me, as explained, I had an ongoing affair with GG... it was devastating in many ways. One part is the obvious part-it devastated Maca. But it was also devastating for me, because I do love Maca, and I knew I was hurting him... sort of like the description in the song by Rhianna.
But ALSO-I was in love with GG too and I knew it was hurting him as well-which hurt me.
Then there was the twist-which was that I actually had a relationship, deep, loving relationship with GG for 6 years before Maca and I hooked up.
So I almost felt like I was cheating on BOTH of them....
I know-I just took "confusion" to a WHOLE NEW LEVEL. Sorry.
But I guess I'm brainstorming with you!

When I "came out" to Maca, it wasn't a "suprise I had an affair" moment. He knew I had an affair. It was an

"OMG I just can't live with myself anymore and I have tried every single damn thing I can to find the "right" solution-but the truth is I TRULY do love both of you and I really don't believe that dropping EITHER of you would be "right". moment".

I had destroyed myself to the depths of my soul and my last resort was to basically drop the bomb so to speak "you can (either or both) leave me, but I can't leave either of you and live with myself so I'm not going to try and I'm not going to pretend anymore either because I know I'm killing myself and both of you as well."

I really expected that they would leave.

Ironically-for me personally (yes I've been cheated on both one night stand cheating and ongoing).
I prefer the "relationship" cheating over a "one off". I can easily forgive and accept a relationship, but a one off, that ticks me off beyond words and generally beyond salvaging the relationship..
so am I a freak???
__________________
"Love As Thou Wilt"
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 01-19-2010, 04:00 AM
LovingRadiance's Avatar
LovingRadiance LovingRadiance is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Alaska
Posts: 5,431
Default

Mono-we must have been typing at the same time.

I feel the same way as your ex-wife. The only clarification being-that I could/can handle that continuing... (the "other woman").

It used to really bother Maca when I said I wouldn't leave him if he had a relationship with another woman, but it was the truth.
Ironically-part of why I DIDN'T tell him the "whole truth" much of the time, was because of that exact thing-when I told him that it hurt and upset him. I didn't understand WHY and I didn't want to hurt and upset him by saying something that need not be said (NOT saying that is why I had an affair, I'm talking about OTHER not said things I felt or thought).

I think you are dead on about "mistake" or not. My 1st Sgt in ROTC used to say (all the time) "If you walk into a walk, that's an accident-if you do it twice that's stupidity." Same sort of concept.

RP-I think it's KEY for EVERYONE to understand that there is a NEED to continue our "education" throughout our lives. If that concept is natural for every person, then person A making a mistake knows that they need to work on learning from their mistake and person B (who was hurt by the mistake) knows that they need to allow person A to grow and learn from their mistake as well....

(not saying HOW one allows that, just saying)....
__________________
"Love As Thou Wilt"
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 01-19-2010, 09:48 PM
Olivier's Avatar
Olivier Olivier is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Belgium
Posts: 149
Default

Great article! Do you mind if we post it on the future front page redpepper?
__________________
http://www.olivetree9.com
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 01-19-2010, 10:19 PM
redpepper's Avatar
redpepper redpepper is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Canada
Posts: 7,639
Default

I would be honoured Olivier. Thank you.
__________________
Anyone want to be friends on Facebook?
Send me your name via PM
My blog
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 01-20-2010, 05:35 AM
redpepper's Avatar
redpepper redpepper is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Canada
Posts: 7,639
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LovingRadiance View Post
Ironically-part of why I DIDN'T tell him the "whole truth" much of the time, was because of that exact thing-when I told him that it hurt and upset him. .
Mono has a friend that is experiencing the demise of his marriage because he doesn't want to tell his wife that if they don't work out their sexual relationship he will be driven to go out and find someone else to have sex with. He doesn't want to hurt her by telling her that.

My point to him is that he has a choice of how the shit will hit the fan.... She is going to lose her mind... he can either have integrity or not. He can tell her that he needs a change or he can cheat and tell her that he did so because he wasn't strong enough to tell her his feelings and that he needed a change. What is to his advantage is that he has a choice and he has some time. Some positive in a crappy situation.

Just as an aside, they have a one year old and she is saying none of her friends are having sex with their husbands (sorry, it's a very mainstream middle of the road, vanilla, straight story). This is a common story it seems of young parents. He/they are not poly he says btw. I think he would be laughed at if he told her what poly is even... he definitley sees it as getting to fuck lots of women and that they could just have him. No other relationships.

Okay, what to tell him? What can be told to this guy that will make him think with his brain rather than his dick? (more brainstorming?)
__________________
Anyone want to be friends on Facebook?
Send me your name via PM
My blog
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
affairs, cheating, relationships

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 06:06 AM.