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  #11  
Old 12-29-2011, 01:34 AM
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SchrodingersCat SchrodingersCat is offline
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I've never found good relationships when looking. When I decided to just focus on having a happy life in and of myself, I forgot about relationships for a while and soon thereafter, good relationships just fell into my life.

I think the success of looking vs not looking depends on the person, lifestyle, stage of life, and what you're actively doing to look or not look

You can't manipulate the universe by deliberately not looking, it will call your bluff. But when you focus on yourself and being an independent person with a healthy mind and body, you naturally attract the kinds of people you want in your life.

When you look too hard, you begin to appear dependent. Nobody wants to be dated just to fill a void.
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  #12  
Old 12-29-2011, 02:34 AM
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SourGirl SourGirl is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnnabelMore View Post
You called it nonsense and hokum. So, who's being harsh?
Exactly.
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  #13  
Old 12-29-2011, 04:15 AM
riftara riftara is offline
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really! I lost the game! I hate you and all that you are...

now seriously... sometimes the best way is to stop looking. Your stress goes down and you appear more open to everything, you become more attractive by being relaxed and comfortable with yourself.
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  #14  
Old 12-29-2011, 05:09 AM
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hyperskeptic hyperskeptic is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AutumnalTone View Post
Some reason for the jackassery? I pointed out that a widely spread meme is all sorts of wrong because it obviously isn't accurate and sucks as a generalization. I never said others couldn't have a different experience.

Why take a shot at me via the strawman?
Sorry, I think my response came across as more snarky than was intended.

One thing I especially dislike about online communication is that all nuance of feeling is lost. I was not intending to "take a shot" but to to engage in a little light-hearted ribbing.

I was mildly annoyed by what I perceived as dismissal of my point, as "nonsense", etc., but there really wasn't any animus behind my response. I should probably have held my virtual tongue, or found some more constructive way to reply.

I'll try to be better about that.
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  #15  
Old 12-29-2011, 05:10 AM
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hyperskeptic hyperskeptic is offline
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Originally Posted by riftara View Post
really! I lost the game! I hate you and all that you are...
Oh, but you WON the game. Didn't you know? It's okay now.
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  #16  
Old 12-29-2011, 03:43 PM
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hyperskeptic hyperskeptic is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SchrodingersCat View Post
You can't manipulate the universe by deliberately not looking, it will call your bluff.
Indeed not. I was not engaging in magical thinking, nor even thinking in terms of Taoist action-by-inaction (though there may be some wisdom in the latter).

What I'm really aiming for is something like this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by SchrodingersCat View Post
But when you focus on yourself and being an independent person with a healthy mind and body, you naturally attract the kinds of people you want in your life.
I guess what I've come to is the realization that I do not have a girlfriend-shaped hole in my life. If I act as though I do, I end up neglecting or, at least, undervaluing my present commitments.

Worse,if I think as if I have a girlfriend-shaped hole in my life, I put an obstacle in the way of the free development of relationships with other people.

Say I'm attracted to particular woman. Wouldn't it be better for me to get to know her as an individual person, in all the fulness of her own self, without pressure or expectation, rather than taking measurements (as it were) to see how well she might fit the requirements of my supposed lack?

And what lack? The thing is, when I look at it, my life is really very good right now. I have a strong and constantly renewed relationship with my partner, two marvelous daughters, a really satisfying vocation, and an utterly joyful avocation.

I do need to develop my own ability to connect with other people, something that has never come easily to me. I think that need is best filled just by being open to other people, learning to see them as they are, not as I hope or want or need them to be for some particular purpose.

Even if I never have a girlfriend, I will be well content if I can connect more openly with the people I encounter in my everyday life.

Or so I keep telling myself.

(This is what reminds me of "The Game": old mental and emotional habits keep kicking in, and I keep thinking in terms of potential dates or potential mates. "Don't think of a girlfriend!" Argh!)
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  #17  
Old 12-31-2011, 03:10 AM
Eponine Eponine is offline
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I understand your approach. I don't think being poly means you have to have multiple partners. For me what matters more is the freedom and openness.

I'm using OKCupid, but not like "desperately" looking. I'm pretty casual and don't care much about the result. I try to make friends first, then let things develop naturally. Even if nothing romantic happens in the end, it's still good to have more friends.

Ideally I also prefer developing relationships with people encountered in daily life, but the probability of meeting poly-minded people in real life is very low. Well, depends on where you live and what you do, I guess.
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  #18  
Old 01-02-2012, 08:05 PM
AutumnalTone AutumnalTone is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnnabelMore View Post
You called it nonsense and hokum. So, who's being harsh?
It's rather difficult to be harsh to an idea. I commented on the idea without any suggestion that he might be deficient for offering it up. His response was, at best, a simple logical fallacy (strawman), and at worst, aimed at me instead of the ideas in play.

Criticism of an idea is AOK.
Criticism of the person isn't.
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When speaking of various forms of non-monogamy...it ain't poly if you're just fucking around.

While polyamory, open relationships, and swinging are all distinctly different approaches to non-monogamy, they are not mutually exlusive. Folks can, and some do, engage in more than one of them at a time--and it's all good.
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  #19  
Old 01-02-2012, 10:33 PM
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hyperskeptic hyperskeptic is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AutumnalTone View Post
It's rather difficult to be harsh to an idea. I commented on the idea without any suggestion that he might be deficient for offering it up. His response was, at best, a simple logical fallacy (strawman), and at worst, aimed at me instead of the ideas in play.

Criticism of an idea is AOK.
Criticism of the person isn't.
In truth, the point of my ribbing was aimed at neither the idea nor at the person, but rather at the logic of the response.

As it happens, I was not, in my original post, making a general claim about what is best for everyone, simply describing an approach that makes sense to me right now.

Your response seemed to assume I was making a general claim and, instead of offering an argument, you offered what amounts to a series of anecdotes - your own experience - as conclusive falsification of that supposedly general claim.

It is as if I said: I am going to go looking for a black swan, because I would enjoy seeing one. And you replied: Hah! Not that black swan nonsense again! I've only ever seen white swans!

Following the analogy, my (too snarky) reply would have been: Well, if you've never seen a black swan, I guess I should stop looking right now!

A better reply might have been to point out that "data" is not the plural of "anecdote". If one person - or even a million people - have only ever seen white swans, in the course of their ordinary, casual experience (that is, anecdotally), there is still the possibility that I may someday see a black one, if I keep looking. That there are black swans is a fact established by the more systematic collection of observations by natural historians and, later, ornithologists.

Even if the existence of black swans had not been substantiated, it is still the case that no amount of anecdotal evidence would be sufficient to rule out the possibility that black swans exist.

(Oh, and technically, there is no sense in which my response was either a straw man or an ad hominem. It was mere sarcasm, an attempt at an Oxford-style logical put-down of which I am still not proud.)
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"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge" - Charles Darwin

"Mystical explanations are considered deep. The truth is that they are not even superficial." - Friedrich Nietzsche

Last edited by hyperskeptic; 01-03-2012 at 01:52 AM. Reason: clarity
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