Should I "go first" since I've been most insecure?

[River]

Originally Posted by sunnydee

If it makes you feel any better at all, if you are up for a casual fling, that is very likely to be way easier for you to accomplish than for hubby, given the differences in how men and women react to these things.

While maybe one can accurately generalize about sex/gender differences in this area, it's crucial to know that not all males or females will fit into such a generalization.

[redpepper]

Originally Posted by Krazykitty

If another person might be involved with me that would tell me how wonderful I look, I think this would make it bearable... is that unethical? I can exercise, put on more make-up etc. but I'm still an average looking 42 year old woman and as long as he's fantasizing about this absolutely STUNNING 26 year old creature, I feel as if I'm fading into obscurity. This can't be right.

I won't have time to read everything or say much more until tomorrow but I wanted to point out that 26 year olds may be younger looking, and sometimes more beautiful but there is nothing that compares to a wise, matured woman. I too am around your age and I really can't bare a lot of 26 year olds for too long. They are just in another world to me... I don't say that out of hate or judgment, but just that their life experience is so limited and eventually I get bored and just feel like I need more.

I dated a woman who is 25 and I am 40. She was/is lovely. I care about her and admire her intelligence. I find her attractive and very mature for her age, but eventually I found that the robustness of being more mature just wasn't there. There is a well roundedness that comes from being older or a warmth of some kind... I can't seem to explain. I attune it to the fall rather than the summer of a persons life somehow. Does that make sense? they each have a certain feel.

I think that your husband might well just want to fuck this woman and remember his youth. A bit of mid life stuff going on perhaps? I suspect that is all there is too it, but then I haven't read the whole thread yet, sorry if I am wrong. It's sad that you are taking this on and no I don't think that is unethical, but just plain hard! I understand your feelings as I look at my muffin top, skin that isn't as elastic anymore, tits that are beginning to sag and gray hair coming in. It totally get it! It sucks getting old... but I have decided that I must be loved for who I am or I'm outta there. I have no intention of allowing anyone to think I am in someway unworthy of love and admiration because I am older. I expect admiration and respect and therefore get it (at least in my mind which is all that matters).

just for the record, and for what it's worth, from a woman is loooooonging for some female lovin'......I find older women damned sexy without make up and doing to much to make themselves look younger. I find it rather insecure and kind of repulsive to see women try to hard to attract others... no disrespect in that, just my desire lies in fresh faced, real bodies that are confident, healthy and show signs of being taken care of .... exercise, good food, laughter, confidence, happiness with themselves and smelling good (natural smell that is) are a must for me. Nothing to do with youth or looks.

[Fidelia]

Originally Posted by redpepper

just for the record, and for what it's worth, from a woman is loooooonging for some female lovin'......I find older women damned sexy without make up and doing to much to make themselves look younger. I find it rather insecure and kind of repulsive to see women try to hard to attract others... no disrespect in that, just my desire lies in fresh faced, real bodies that are confident, healthy and show signs of being taken care of .... exercise, good food, laughter, confidence, happiness with themselves and smelling good (natural smell that is) are a must for me. Nothing to do with youth or looks.

Okay, redpepper, that does it. You are totally my kinda gal and I declare an official crush on you.

[CielDuMatin]

Originally Posted by redpepper

I won't have time to read everything or say much more until tomorrow but I wanted to point out that 26 year olds may be younger looking, and sometimes more beautiful but there is nothing that compares to a wise, matured woman. I too am around your age and I really can't bare a lot of 26 year olds for too long. They are just in another world to me... I don't say that out of hate or judgment, but just that their life experience is so limited and eventually I get bored and just feel like I need more.

I have dated younger women and older women than myself and while I agree with the tendency, I have found some pretty emotionally immature women in their 50s and some surprisingly mature women in their 20s. They tend to be the exception, rather than the rule, but I have been surprised on both sides.

[Krazykitty]

You guys are so awesome!! Thanks for the fresh perspectives, on youth, looks, thinking, everything. God it's so refreshing to be able to just DISCUSS this stuff!! Does everyone else in our society just sweep everything under the rug as a matter of course?? I must say, it seems, polyamory (for us) has thrown everything dark and hidden into the light to be seen for what it is and dealt with appropriately including personal feelings of inadequacy, self worth issues etc etc.

Our polyamourous discussions have brought up many gender related issues and it's interesting to think about the dynamic of what we're taught that it is to be "a woman" or "be a man" and how it relates to our sexuality and how we view ourselves.. It might be hard for people to understand, but I have NEVER really been a "make-up, do hair" type person only because at an early age, I pretty much gave up on trying to look good as a girl and basically quit doing all that stuff. I was a very nice caterpillar, but didn't seem to blossom into the butterfly that other girls seemed to effortlessly become. Too many people were judgmental and critical at my attempts to fit in to the demands of the female gender.

I was gender-variant enough to make a decision to "be a man" and not care about any of that stuff... made my way through years of sexual conquests... Then I became a single mom for thirteen years. This period of "extreme alone time" (basically most of my twenties plus a lot of my thirties) solidified even more my desire to resist femininity and all it entailed. I became a stubborn hermit and rejected almost everyone who was interested in me. This was like a sexual dormant phase and during that time I began to think maybe trying to look "like a girl" might be a good idea. I bought make-up and wore it at work and on the few dates I had. However I have not really wanted to try too hard until now. It's just another phase of development, or poorly timed adolescent experimentation, in my opinion.

I may have not wanted to go there in the first place, but only because my development was thwarted by school abuse and non-understanding adults. Now, I'm trying the whole "girl" thing since I'd never really given it a shot when I went thru puberty. I want to see where this all goes, feels almost like a sex change of some sort, even though I've been solidly female-identified my whole life (I'd wished I were a boy because of the convenience, not because I thought I was one). If the "other girl" is causing me to actually think about and deal with this stuff, that's GREAT!!

[ArtemisHunts]

It's so exciting and wonderful that you are discovering and exploring both within yourself and within your relationship. Sounds like you are really on a roll with digging everything up that could be between you. It can be really scary at first - a lot of that stuff stays in the dark because it has such a potential to hurt. I can almost hear in your voice how eager you are to root it out, to turn it all into something even better. That really respectable, and you should be proud of the progress you have made already. Isn't it nice to know even if nothing more happens on the poly path, you two have already gained valuable insights?

I know everyone has already mentioned the "feeling attractive" issue, but I just couldn't let it lie. What I have seen and learned about it is a little counter-intuitive. I got to suggest it, though - I would hate to see you chasing windmills.
So here it is: the feeling that you are an attractive person is NOT something that somebody else can give you. It doesn't matter how many people want you, it doesn't matter how much makeup you wear, it doesn't matter how heartfelt and plentiful compliments are, hell, it doesn't even matter how you really look! Yes, sometimes those things can provide a temporary burst, almost like a mood, but being and knowing you are attractive comes from within. No one else can give it to you.

They can't convince you. You have to believe it yourself first before you can be receptive to positive reinforcement. It sounds silly, but really, it has VERY LITTLE to do with the outside world.

Well, I hope that helps somehow. Best of luck to you both and keep your faith in your communication!

[MonoVCPHG]

I had a hard time reading your original post for reasons me and Redpepper discussed. Everyone has given great advice and insight but I wanted to add one thing about older women.

By the time I was nineteen I had a few similarly aged sexual partners/relationships. (one at a time...I was a serial monogamist LOL) Then I had one night with a woman who was in her early forties...WOW! There was nothing as sexy as a woman who was fully confident in her sexuality, in her body and in her knowledge of what that body could do. She was very clear in what she wanted and changed my idea of what was truly sexy! I was a bit stunned actually. I have since always been attracted to older women (is it ok to say that? )

It could just be my perspective, but young men today seem to have figured out how incredibly valuable experience in more "mature" women is. Sometimes I am frustrated that men seem to loose sight of this when they get older...or perhaps they prefer women with less experience and therefore less expectations?

That's my two cents
Peace and Love

[Krazykitty]

Posting again with new understandings. thanks for your insightful replies all. Yes I know that I am the only one that can change the way I feel about my looks. Even the cutest Suicide Girl has a chance of having low self esteem. Also, I know that confidence (of which I usually have a surplus) is very attractive.

I've been pretty immature in wanting to "do something" just to guard against emotional hurt. I need to find other ways besides another human to not allow myself to be hurt by my partner's desires and wishes. It's not fair to the other person to view them as having that type of purpose.

With that being said, if a friend and I find that we "like" one another, I will be honest with my husband and probably have a fling of some type, not to "pre-empt" him but to gain more understanding of desires outside our relationship. As long as I'm safe and honest I don't think it could hurt if it happened. Need to tell my husband all this now...

[redpepper]

I remembered after I posted the time that my husband (Nerdist) was dating a younger woman. He is 33 and very mature... always has been, much more than me who is 7 years older. He's wise beyond his years I should say. It fits him better. Anyway he fell head over heels for a 25 year old. He tends to fall head over heels when he is in love rather than work toward it slowly. He's either in love or not. Where as I fall in love easily and deeply, but not blindly, if that makes sense.

So she is 15 years younger than me and just starting her relationship life in terms of finding life partners. I was very threatened by this as I was reaching an age milestone and feeling my age in terms of realizing I am middle aged! ahhh! How'd that happen? Not to mention she is cute, perky, has nice tit's, smooth wrinkleless skin. All those things I used to be...

I felt just as you did Krazykitty in your first post. I can completely empathize. It reminded me reading it that I can bring different things to the table than anyone else. I am completely unique and worthy of love just as I am. It turned out that he thought she was far to immature relationship wise and decided to stick to me for now. He told me it would be hard to find a woman that even comes close to the standard he has put me in... this made me feel very special. We talked at the time about the importance of reminding each other what our worth is in situations like that and how just saying that we are special, loved, cherished, all those good things that make us feel connected and makes a huge difference.