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  #101  
Old 01-14-2010, 10:06 PM
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MonoVCPHG MonoVCPHG is offline
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Default Sorry River

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Originally Posted by River View Post
Well, I don't subscribe to the theory or doctrine that all ways of relating are equally good, valid, healthy, etc.

And since apparently I'm now a bad guy because of it, with Mono apparently calling me arrogant because of it, I think I'll just take an extended break from this polyamory.com . It isn't feeling good for me just now.
Sorry you took my comment in a negative way, River. I actually mirror your values around sex in a lot of ways. There was sincerity in my respect for you.
I apologize for the manner I expressed that.

Take care
Mono
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  #102  
Old 01-14-2010, 10:14 PM
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Okay. All is good.
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  #103  
Old 01-15-2010, 03:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by River View Post
Well, I don't subscribe to the theory or doctrine that all ways of relating are equally good, valid, healthy, etc.

And since apparently I'm now a bad guy because of it, with Mono apparently calling me arrogant because of it, I think I'll just take an extended break from this polyamory.com . It isn't feeling good for me just now.
I don't subscribe to that doctrine either. I'm not sure where you think I said that. However, it definitely warrants discussion what differences people see as healthy or unhealthy and where our values intersect with that.

I also don't think you're adequately recognizing that I was addressing some pretty negative stuff you were putting out there that could be construed as hurtful to others. That doesn't make you the bad guy, it just makes it something worth addressing and discussing.
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  #104  
Old 01-15-2010, 04:10 AM
Ceoli Ceoli is offline
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Right now, I'm studying a sexuality education curriculum that touches on a lot of things that feel relevant to me in this topic. I'm just loving some of the ways things are put. The very beginning of the course talks about what assumptions the program is specifically built on. In this case, the word assumption addresses core things that people may feel differently about being right or wrong, but for the purposes of this program, they are assumed to be right. They are:
  • All persons are sexual.
  • Sexuality is a good part of the human experience.
  • Sexuality includes much more than sexual behavior.
  • Human beings are sexual from the time they are born until they die.
  • It is natural to express sexual feelings in a variety of ways
  • People engage in healthy sexual behavior for a vriety of reasons including to express caring and love, to experience intimacy and connection with another, to share pleasure, to bring new life into the world and to experience fun and relaxation.
  • Sexuality in our society is damaged by violence, exploitation, alienation, dishonesty, abuse of power, ,and the treatment of persons as objects.
  • It is healthier for young adolescents to postpone sexual intercourse.

It also talks about healthy sexual relationships within the core value of sexual health (health including emotional, spiritual, and physical)

Healthy sexual relationships are:
  • consensual- both people consent
  • nonexploitative- equal in terms of power, neither person is pressuring or forcing the other into activities or behaviors
  • mutually pleasurable- both receive pleasure
  • safe- no or low risk of unintended pregnancy, sexually transmitted infections, and emotional pain
  • developmentally appropriate-appropriate to the age and maturity of the persons involved
  • based on mutual expectations and caring
  • respectful- including the values of honesty and keeping commitments made to others

Just some more food for thought.
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  #105  
Old 01-15-2010, 12:10 PM
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Ceoli, some great stuff there, for sure. I would take issue with the "all humans are sexual", because I have known a few people who have said that they are asexual and wish to be respected for that and not be thought of as some sort of aberration. Other than that it seems like a really great start.

Again, let me make sure I am understanding what you are saying - "sex-positive" means anything that encourages healthy sexual relationships, yes? Or is there more to it? Just want to make the link.
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  #106  
Old 01-16-2010, 04:10 AM
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Originally Posted by CielDuMatin View Post
Ceoli, some great stuff there, for sure. I would take issue with the "all humans are sexual", because I have known a few people who have said that they are asexual and wish to be respected for that and not be thought of as some sort of aberration. Other than that it seems like a really great start.
Actually, we do cover asexuality in this curriculum. One of the foundations of the program has to do with the definition of sexuality. This program uses a model called "The Circles of Sexuality". It describes interlinked circles and in each circle is an aspect of human sexuality as defined like this:

Sensuality- Awareness, acceptance of, and comfort with one's own body; physiological and psychological enjoyment of ones own body and the bodies of others. This includes but is not limited to:
  • Body image
  • Human sexual response cycle
  • Skin hunger
  • Fantasy
Intimacy- The ability and need to experience emotional closeness to another human being and have it returned. This includes but is not limited to:
  • Caring
  • Sharing
  • Loving/Liking
  • Risk taking
  • Vulnerability
  • Self-disclosure
  • Trust
Sexual Identity-The devlopment of a sense of who one is sexually, including a sense of maleness or femaleness. Including but not limited to:
  • Gender identity
  • Gender role
  • Sexual orientation
  • Biological sex
Sexual Health and Reproduction- Attitudes and behaviors related to producing children, care and maintenance of the sex and reproductive organs and health consequences of sexual behavior. Including but not limited to:
  • Factual information
  • Feelings and attitudes
  • Sexual/reproductive systems
  • Physiology an anatomy of reproductive organs
  • Intercourse
Sexualization- The use of sexuality to influence, control or manipulate others. Including but not limited to:
  • Rape
  • Incest
  • Sexual Harassment
  • Withholding sex
  • Seduction/flirting

While most asexuals acknowledge that they do not experience a need or desire to sexually relate to others (some do masturbate, others don't have any sexual drive) they do say that the circles of sexuality still apply to them as they are laid out in this program. Since other aspects of sexuality apply to asexuals, it still holds that all human beings are sexual. It just may manifest in different ways for some than for others.

Quote:
Again, let me make sure I am understanding what you are saying - "sex-positive" means anything that encourages healthy sexual relationships, yes? Or is there more to it? Just want to make the link.
That sounds about right, though I would add to it an intentional awareness of the dynamic of how values can sometimes impose on a definition of healthy and how to separate that out. (in other words, many times what is defined as healthy is defined by ones values rather than what might be still construed healthy in a more objective context)
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  #107  
Old 01-16-2010, 06:19 PM
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Wow what a great course Ceoli. I would love to take that myself! Thanks for sharing it with us.

Wouldn't you know it I'm going to two courses as well. One is a communication course that my company is paying for and the other a course on sexual concent. Strange isn't it how much talk has been going around on similar topics and I get the word I will be going to such courses. Life is strange. The communication one is in March and the sex one today. We shall see what comes out of it. I love courses on this kind of thing. So excited!
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  #108  
Old 01-16-2010, 09:39 PM
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Ceoli, I want to thank you for sharing this. I love this way this is broken down into its components. Very useful to think more about!
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  #109  
Old 01-17-2010, 03:28 AM
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That curriculum is intriguing! And RP, I'm curious about your two courses. Especially the communication one.
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  #110  
Old 01-17-2010, 05:03 AM
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Originally Posted by rolypoly View Post
That curriculum is intriguing! And RP, I'm curious about your two courses. Especially the communication one.
I will be sure to talk about both. Todays I am still digesting. It was intense in some ways and kind of the same old in others... If there is something I feel comfortable sharing, I most certainly will.
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