Jealousy, Envy, Insecurity, etc. General Discussion

[catbird]

I'm almost certain this is not a new question at this site. Hope I don't exasperate anyone with old ground.

Seems to me that any adult with an erotic relationship with more than one other has to deal with jealousy sooner or later, no matter how grown up everyone is. There will be problems in someone's heart, and eventually they will come out with them.

I would guess that the polyamorous work hard at overcoming jealousy, or dealing with jealousy in others. You aren't, I would guess, naturally jealous yourselves, or you have conscientiously gotten rid of your jealousy.

Is there a book anyone would recommend on the subject of dealing with your own or someone else's jealousy?

Failing that, I imagine many of you are experts or at least qualified to give advice on the subject. There is not a problem yet in my household. I'm asking for input, it's welcome here. Thanks to all.

[Breathesgirl]

You will hear visit www.xeromag.com a LOT! It is my favorite site to go to when I have a problem that I'm not ready to share with anyone yet.

[jkelly]

I'm sure that a number of other people will give good advice or pointers to resources.

Originally Posted by catbird

Seems to me that any adult with an erotic relationship with more than one other has to deal with jealousy sooner or later, no matter how grown up everyone is.

I suppose there's a way in which that's true. Any adult who relates to another human being is going to have to deal with annoyance, embarassment, frustration, jealousy, etc. sooner or later, no matter how grown up everyone is.

Originally Posted by catbird

I would guess that the polyamorous work hard at overcoming jealousy, or dealing with jealousy in others. You aren't, I would guess, naturally jealous yourselves, or you have conscientiously gotten rid of your jealousy.

I wouldn't say that I wasn't naturally jealous, or that I have worked on overcoming jealousy, any more than I would say that I wasn't naturally embarassed, or have worked on overcoming embarassment.

I think that there's a really unfortunate tendency to treat jealousy as this big, scary, crippling problem, or as a curable disease. It's really not either of those things; it's an emotion much like any other. Look, it annoys me when my partner doesn't put my CDs back in their cases after listening to them. So I say "Hey, it annoys me when you do that," and put them back the way I like them. If I threw a big fit, threatened to end the relationship, or forbid her from ever listening to my CDs again, everyone would think I was acting like a jerk, and they'd be right! But we give tremendous liscense to people to act like that when the emotion is jealousy instead of annoyance.

Sometimes it can be cathartic to throw fits, I suppose, but I think that for the most part we should expect people to not act out when they're experiencing some emotion they'd rather not be feeling.

[catbird]

Originally Posted by jkelly

I wouldn't say that I wasn't naturally jealous, or that I have worked on overcoming jealousy, any more than I would say that I wasn't naturally embarassed, or have worked on overcoming embarassment.

I think that there's a really unfortunate tendency to treat jealousy as this big, scary, crippling problem, or as a curable disease. It's really not either of those things; it's an emotion much like any other. Look, it annoys me when my partner doesn't put my CDs back in their cases after listening to them. So I say "Hey, it annoys me when you do that," and put them back the way I like them. If I threw a big fit, threatened to end the relationship, or forbid her from ever listening to my CDs again, everyone would think I was acting like a jerk, and they'd be right! But we give tremendous liscense to people to act like that when the emotion is jealousy instead of annoyance.

Sometimes it can be cathartic to throw fits, I suppose, but I think that for the most part we should expect people to not act out when they're experiencing some emotion they'd rather not be feeling.

Thank you, jkelly. What you say in your post seems very sensible. I've been an actor for forty years and emotions were part of my stock in trade. For them to be so I had to get in touch with them.

Jealousy is a nasty one, though, and a dramatic one but not in any good sense. Seems like maybe it comes up when people haven't been paying attention to something big about their loved ones. And also when people have a sense of ownership they feel is lawful. Or a sense of security they think other people ought to supply.

I realize this is one-sided. Perhaps people ought to remain true to their commitments. But I am starting to think that the idea of commitment is evil. It fails to take into consideration that people are alive, are living, not robots, and we grow and change.

Hope everyone at the site is well! Y'all take care now, hear?

[dingedheart]

How much is jealousy hardwired into us humans and how much is learned? Is some jealousy factory provided as a way to delineate preference. If not what is its purpose? Thanks D

[Ariakas]

Originally Posted by dingedheart

How much is jealousy hardwired into us humans and how much is learned? Is some jealousy factory provided as a way to delineate preference. If not what is its purpose? Thanks D

Wow that seems like an impossible question.

I feel no jealousy for my wife. In our relationship and our love I feel secure.

I felt jealousy with my gf near the end of our relationship. Because I felt insecure. I was not jealous before that. It was made worse by me trying to fist fight it into submission instead of just letting it happen and accepting it for what it was.

Jealousy for me is completely based on the environment I sit in. Well so far. I don't like absolutes, since... anything can change.

[MonoVCPHG]

Originally Posted by dingedheart

How much is jealousy hardwired into us humans and how much is learned? Is some jealousy factory provided as a way to delineate preference. If not what is its purpose? Thanks D

Anyone with kids can see jealousy in them from the earliest age. They squabble over toys and thier parents affection. I think it is a normal survival instinct that is based on scarcity...thinking there will not be enough to go around and therefore trying to horde things.

[FlameKat]

Originally Posted by MonoVCPHG

Anyone with kids can see jealousy in them from the earliest age. They squabble over toys and thier parents affection. I think it is a normal survival instinct that is based on scarcity...thinking there will not be enough to go around and therefore trying to horde things.

this rang a bell in my mind (hasn't happened much lately - thanks Mono )

would it be fair to then, as parents, take responsibility for assuring (and reassuring) our children that there IS enough to go around.... and then when there isn't (i.e time/resources) that that is okay and alright and not something to be afraid of, that more will come?

with this thinking - it would also be our responsibility as the parent of our own inner child, to also reassure ourselves that we are okay, and alright and everything will be fine. To take action if it is necessary but to otherwise, let (whatever it is) it be?

[nycindie]

I think jealousy is learned. In a culture that is more communal and not focused on a scarcity-abundance dichotomy, where competition is healthy and meant to be a learning tool, I believe jealousy may not exist at all.

There is also another thread where several articles about jealousy were cited and/or pasted. Maybe that one could be moved and combined here with this thread:

http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5779

[MonoVCPHG]

Originally Posted by FlameKat

this rang a bell in my mind (hasn't happened much lately - thanks Mono )

would it be fair to then, as parents, take responsibility for assuring (and reassuring) our children that there IS enough to go around.... and then when there isn't (i.e time/resources) that that is okay and alright and not something to be afraid of, that more will come?

with this thinking - it would also be our responsibility as the parent of our own inner child, to also reassure ourselves that we are okay, and alright and everything will be fine. To take action if it is necessary but to otherwise, let (whatever it is) it be?

Yes..it is our responsibility to do this. Even animals show signs of possible jealousy. Dogs compete for food and will try to eat everything..because they are instinctively preparing for scarcity. I think that is natural to any species..but I am no biologist. Children display this behavior almost automatically..they also go through a phase of hitting to get what they want from others, biting and crying. I don't see these as learned behaviors but as a part of our biological make up. A babies cry is not learned...it's a biologically programmed tool to get what they need. I see jealousy as a part of our make up as that....an emotion like anger, sadness, happiness and fear. But..I'm no biologist

There are things that we could die from...food is a need that if scarce can cause death. Some people see love as a need..but would we die if it was scarce for a while? I doubt it.