Wife thinks that I am neglecting her in favour of my secondary. She's right.

We've been in a relationship for nineteen years, married for twelve years, opened up our relationship eleven years ago.

Here's the thing. Ever since Kate started seeing another man, somebody that she works with, I haven't felt the same.

I think Kate was having an affair with him before bringing up the whole poly thing with me. She says that she didn't. Stopped caring, it's all water under the bridge now, don't hold on to this sort of stuff.

Hard to say why I felt differently. Maybe there's a bit of jealousy, possessiveness, insecurity, or pure pettiness to it. Hell, maybe there's an evolutionary reason for it. Damned if I know. Whatever it is, every time she goes on a date with Adam, I emotionally distance myself from her. Initially, it was a subconscious thing. Didn't even notice it.

When it started getting noticeable, she stopped seeing Adam. I stopped emotionally distancing myself from her, but I didn't become any closer to her either. We spent about a year trying to close that distance. Better than it was, but it didn't compare to our mono relationship. There was no point in her not seeing Adam, since the doors were already open. Back she went.

About three years ago, I figured, "Well, fuck it," and got out of my pity party. I started dating an ex-gf of mine. We broke up years ago, mostly because of my stupidity. The relationship was getting serious, so I freaked and got the hell out of Dodge. One of my biggest regrets was breaking her heart.

Kate doesn't like all the attention that I'm giving to Julie. My moniker refers to her. As the title says, Kate thinks that I am neglecting her in favour of my secondary. She's right.

What I find ridiculous is that we had a number of huge talks about how things could go down when she rekindled her relationship with Adam. I told her how I felt, where I stood, what I thought about our relationship, and where things were likely to go. She's still surprised by this outcome.

What I want to know is, with the information that I've given out, am I really the bad guy for neglecting Kate for Julie?

I think that, first of all, you should stop looking for the bad guy.

It sounds like, from the information you've given, you haven't stopped caring about Kate's supposed affair in the past and therefore are acting in a passive aggressive manner towards her. I could be totally off, but this is what I get from this story you wrote.

If you want to make things okay with Kate, then you have to focus on that relationship. If not, you will probably end up divorcing.

Yes. Two wrongs don`t make a right. You learn that in grade school.

Also, in your own words, you say Kate made a choice to back off her secondary relationship when you had problems with it.

You say Kate has problems with how you are handling your secondary relationship, but you don't offer her the same courtesy. Instead, you seem stuck with the chip on your shoulder.

Time to put on your big-boy pants and stop punishing her.

What you don't tell us is what neglect means. Do you go on lots of dates with Juile and never with Kate? If they are both are having emotional problems, do you ignore Kate and focus on helping Julie? These are behaviors you can choose to change if you want a strong marriage. If you don't, maybe it's time to start letting go of Kate

The way it appears to me is that through the transition of opening your marriage up to poly, Kate may have become more of a secondary to you than a primary, whether it be because you genuinely don't feel the same way about her as you did before, or because you are holding yourself back to stop any negative feelings that her other relationship may cause you to feel.

I have to agree that you aren't showing her as much courtesy as she showed you. She backed off when you were uncomfortable, and while it's not clear to me whether or not you told her it was okay to go back, she at least waited until things settled. Did she think you were going to react better the second time around? To me, it sounds like you two need to get some counseling/therapy to see if a professional can help you with the distancing issue and see what the two of you can do to reconnect.

So, after your first yr of marriage, you decide to open up the relationship. You think Kate had an affair and used the poly or opening as cover for this new relationship. You dislike the situation. Every time she goes on dates, you withdraw. After a period she calls a break from Adam, and the 2 of you spend about a yr trying to recapture the old connection, never quite getting things back. She decides to resume her old relationship. All this time, 8 yrs, you've remained mono? Then 3 yrs ago you said, "Fuck it, its my time. I'm going to find someone, too." And then new troubles start.

The affair/opening up conversation, I think that wound, if it is an actual wound, or just an imaginary one, has never healed properly. It might be water under the bridge, but you just made mention of it 11 yrs after the fact.

Did Kate notice this attention disparity in the beginning of your relationship, or only recently? How long has she felt this way?

What you're saying is that upon Kate restarting her relationship, you told her that your connection to her would most surely diminish, and now she is unhappy with that outcome, and you don't really get it.

Do you feel inclined to negotiate at all on this topic? Will you negotiate on other topics?

You may need to inform her about what type of relationship you'd like to have with her now. That primary thing is not all that it cracked up to be. Some people need it, others don't. I actually told my wife I didn't want to be the primary, but that's another story.

Here's another thought. Who cares what any of us thinks? If you've got scars, and thus your feelings and connection have changed for Kate, it seems natural that your time and attention would shift in the same direction. How badly do you want to be married?

When I started seeing my boyfriend too much (stupid NRE!), my husband asked me if I was trying to get "payback" for all the years that he spent time with his friends and stayed out all night while I was working/in school. I honestly don't think I'm doing that, but I did have to take an honest look at my actions to determine that. If you're doing this passive-aggressively, it isn't good for you or your relationship(s).

Don't know if I'm being passive-aggressive. I mean, if I'm going to be aggressive, than I prefer to skip the passive bit and get it out into the open. It's just simpler for everyone.

Hell, I'll try to keep an open mind. There's a good chance that I'm just acting like an infantile prick. Not something that I'm proud of, but I'll own it if that's the case.

You're right. I haven't given Kate the same courtesy that she gave me, and I don't plan on giving it. No excuses there. Not my most shining display of humanity. Guess I'm just tired of being the doormat.

What you don't tell us is what neglect means.

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Emotional neglect. Julie is higher up on my mental priority list than Kate. The stuff that you've suggested is close enough.

It might be water under the bridge, but you just made mention of it 11 yrs after the fact.

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Got a point there. It's info that's relevant to our relationship history.

I just don't see the point in obsessing over it. I'll never know, either way. You get to a point where you just have to accept that what happened, happened. What may not have happened, may not have happened.

Did Kate notice this attention disparity in the beginning of your relationship, or only recently? How long has she felt this way?

What you're saying is that upon restarting her relationship you told her that your connection to her would most surely diminish, and now she is unhappy with that outcome, and you don't really get it.

Do you feel inclined to negotiate at all on this topic? Will you negotiate on other topics?

You may need to inform her on what type of relationship you'd like to have with her now. That primary thing is not all that it cracked up to be. Some people need it, others don't. I actually told my wife I didn't want to be the primary, but that's another story.

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Yeah, she noticed the disparity ever since the relationship began. If she hadn't noticed, I'd take it as a sign that she'd already checked out.

The way I see it, I want Julie to be my primary and Kate to be my secondary. From what I've read, it's considered poor form amongst the poly community to pull the old switcheroo. Don't know what your situation is like, but maybe you can relate.

I understand why Kate wouldn't be happy with that, but I did tell her that this could happen years in advance. Guess I'm just surprised that she's surprised.

Yeah, KindaPOd, cut the wife loose. You're treating her badly. She could use someone better than you. She deserves that. Everyone deserves that. Let her go; you'd be doing her a favour. If you can't pull it together to treat her as an equal to Julie, I'd guess you're done. Your attitude sucks on this. You're right, not your best moment. Make it your best and break up with her, telling her that you don't love her any more. To me, that would at least make you out to be somewhat decent in all this.

KindaPOd said:

Don't know if I'm being passive-aggressive. I mean, if I'm going to be aggressive than I prefer to skip the passive bit and get it out into the open. It's just simpler for everyone.

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This sounds so like my husband. Everyone around him would call him passive aggressive-- not to his face, I'm the only one stupid enough to do that, but he would deny it to the hilt. His logical mind saw no point to it and therefore he didn't think he behaved this way, until the therapist pointed it out in specifics. It was a big stepping stone for him to realize this and we were able to make some progress in our relationship.

Hell, I'll try to keep an open mind. There's a good chance that I'm just acting like an infantile prick. Not something that I'm proud of, but I'll own it if that's the case.

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Sounds passive aggressive to me.

The way I see it, I want Julie to be my primary and Kate to be my secondary. From what I've read, it's considered poor form amongst the poly community to pull the old switcheroo.

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Likely because the whole premise to poly is adding more love to your life, not replacing one person with the other. It doesn't sound like you can do this, be it from being hurt so badly, or it's just part of your nature. If I had to guess, based on much of what has been said, the hurt you feel from the past did a lot more damage and went deeper than either of you realized.

I understand why Kate wouldn't be happy with that, but I did tell her that this could happen years in advance. Guess I'm just surprised that she is surprised.

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Because, to her, that concept doesn't even compute. I know a few people that tried for years to fix their marriage after some severe hurts took place, and they just couldn't, because at least one partner could not get that connection back. Sometimes, once that connection is lost, no matter how hard you work, it just can't be repaired. When you break a bone, once set and immobilized for a few months, it will eventually repair itself, but stretch certain muscles too far, and the damage can be permanent (even though they are still attached). This permanent loss of connection is hard for many of us to understand, but it is just as real as being able fully love more than one person.

Sounds passive aggressive to me.

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In what way?

You're definitely someone who is getting a little self-righteous satisfaction out of making your wife squirm right now. Obvious that you don't intend to treat her as an equal, and that you are quite happy to remind her of this. Like a couple of other posters have said: Dump her. She's better off without you. Seriously.

Your original question was if you were the bad guy. I think the answer is yes, if you allow any loving relationship to devolve without either trying to save it, or communicating clearly what is changing and why. Respecting the relationship and the other person enough to either work on it or change it, even if it's on its way out, is just the loving thing to do. And if you treat a loved one, or even a former loved one, in a non-loving way, then, yes... bad guy.

Now, maybe you *have* gently communicated to her that you want your relationship with her to take on a more secondary form, and discussed what that could look like, and what would work for you both. If so, kudos. I couldn't quite tell from the above posts.

Having your feelings change doesn't make you good or bad, its all in how you handle it and the level of compassion you show.

It sounds to me like when Kate found Adam, you didn't like being some fraction in her life. You struggled for 7-8 years, either in silence or in plain verbal discussions with her. There was a snap point, "Fuck it, she's not going to change back. I might as well join in." You felt replaced and from that mindset you went about replacing the person who replaced you. And you have, to some degree.

The damage done 10 yrs ago seems unrepairable. Do you want to be married? Why? Why does she want to remain married? Out of habit? Nice house? What?

What's her response to taking a secondary role? How does she define her relationships as far as primary and secondary? Is the bf a secondary or co-primary, or is everyone equal?

I'd say you're deep-down mono, but have adapted to poly out of your circumstances. You maybe happier and healthier finding someone to enjoy that with.

What does Adam think about all this?

KindaPOd said:

There's a good chance that I'm just acting like an infantile prick. Not something that I'm proud of but I'll own it if that's the case.

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Well yes, you are. But its refreshing to see someone just own their shit, and not hide behind some pretty words. Thank you.

KindaPOd said:

I just don't see the point in obsessing over it. I'll never know either way. You get to a point where you just have to accept that what happened, happened. What may not have happened, may not have happened.

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True. But the truth is you DID make up your mind. You have decided in your own mind that she did it. This is where the disrespect comes from and the passive-aggressive shit. Aggressive would've been finding out the truth, and turning over every stone to have the facts. Passive-aggressive, in your situation, means holding court in your own brain, deciding she is guilty, and then letting future decisions be punishment.

You can choose to believe what you believe. Which means Julie takes precedence, because you respect her, and don't feel lied to by her.

Making Kate a secondary though, is akin to giving her leftovers off the table. It's not like you will suddenly respect her as a secondary.

Those who do the 'switcheroo' successfully, do so with a genuine interest in treating all parties well.

Is any of this 'fair' to you or her? No. That's life. Sometimes we cannot find the truth. Sometimes our brains and hearts make the decisions for us.

Obvious that you don't intend to treat her as an equal.

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My equal as a human being and as an individual? Sure she is. Maybe she is a better person than I am. I don't think that highly of myself, so the bar isn't high.

Equal in the relationship dynamic? She's kinda my secondary, while I'm her primary. Lots of inequality there.

Now, maybe you *have* gently communicated to her that you want your relationship with her to take on a more secondary form, and discussed what that could look like and what would work for you both. If so, kudos. I couldn't quite tell from the above posts.

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Yep, I have, for years.

Having your feelings change doesn't make you good or bad. It's all in how you handle it and the level of compassion you show.

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I agree with you.

Do you want to be married? Why? Why does she want to remain married? Out of habit? Nice house? What?

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Staying for our fifteen-yr old daughter.

We're living paycheck to paycheck. A divorce would empty our bank accounts pretty quickly.

What's her response in taking a secondary role ? How does she define her relationships as far as primary and secondary? Is Adam her secondary or co -primary or is everyone equal?

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Her response is that she wants to be my primary. I'm her primary. Adam is her secondary.

I said that it would benefit her more if she dedicated more time to Adam and placed less of her attention on me. Old loyalties die hard.

What does Adam think about all this?

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Here's a transcript.

Bf: Maybe you should spend some more time with Mrs. KindaPOd and work on your marriage. I'm getting kind of worried.
Me: I spend as much time with her as I'm willing to. Also, try and relax.
Bf: Oh.

So is any of this 'fair' to you or her ? No. That's life. Sometimes we cannot find the truth, sometimes our brains and hearts make the decisions for us.

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You have a way with words, and I agree with you.

I'd say the day you said "fuck it," and set out to find someone else, was the day she was being moved out of the primary position, whether you found anyone or not. Now it's being said more forcefully, or it's being said the same way, but now being taken seriously.

It sounds like if you don't have a full-blown roommate type relationship now, that that's where this is heading. I've read here about other couples having such an arrangement, so that's not uncommon. I'm sure others can comment on how that works.

After a couple years in this dynamic, feeling the way you did, were you able to do, (for lack of a better phrase) "building life together stuff," like improvement projects, retirement planning, buying vacation property (time share), insurance, estate planning, etc.? It was impossible for me to get motivated on any projects, even ones I had materials purchased and in hand for.

Does your child know of these other outside relationships the two of you have? Or rather, to what extent is her knowledge?

Why are you pissed off? At the long-standing situation with Adam, or the suggestion that you need to invest more time and effort into your marriage to maintain the hierarchical relationship Kate thinks you should have with her?

dingedheart said:

I'd say the day you said "fuck it" and set out to find someone else was the day she was being moved out of the primary position, whether you found anyone or not. Now its being said more forcefully or its being said the same way but now being taken seriously.

It sounds like if don't have a full-blown roommate type relationship now, that that's where this is heading.

After a couple years in this dynamic, feeling the way you did, were you able to do "building life together stuff"? It was impossible for me to get motivated on any projects, even ones I had materials purchased and in hand for.

Does your child know of these other outside relationships the two of you have?

Why are you pissed off? At the long standing situation, or the suggestion that you need to invest more time and effort into your marriage to maintain the hierarchical relationship?

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Probably right, dude.

I don't know. I guess I don't really think that the "living like brother and sister while seeing other people" idea is polyamory. Sounds like a passionless-and-romanceless-relationship-so-you-get-it-elsewhere schtick. Just my opinion, though. Maybe it's the supposedly long-dead mono side of me talking. Yeah, that's probably the future. Honestly, I feel pretty bad that my wife wants to avert this future while I'm on the more apathetic side of things. She just won't give up.

My wife and I do stuff together. Our romantic relationship isn't completely dead, but it's in its twilight years. Dunno what your story is, DH, but are you planning on divorcing or what?

Our daughter has met our OSOs. I think that on some level, she knows that we are all more than just friends. Kids aren't stupid. If she asks, I'll be honest.

Me? I'm not pissed off. Kate is, but not me. I'm tired. World weary. Partly I think that it's because I got transferred over to homicide a few years ago. It's a rough job. Definitely wore down my sanity.

Sorry, I thought your user name was Kinda Pissed Off.

I get she's having trouble. And now I really get why you think she cheated on you in the beginning. You've been trained to read people and put together evidence.

My wife moved out and is living hundreds of miles away. She did so for several reasons, the biggest being mental health. Because of her mental status, I have yet to discuss this topic. From the limited communications we've had she's adamantly against divorce. I really can't see a different outcome.

Ah sorry. Not hard to tell that you've had a hard time, DH, but I regret asking. I apologise.

Sorry I thought your user name was Kinda Pissed Off.

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That's because it is. It refers to something my wife said about herself.

And now I really get why you think she cheated on you in the beginning. You've been trained to read people and put together evidence.

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Yeah sorta. I mean, there's a lot of misconceptions about law enforcement. Naturally, I blame TV.

There's quite a bit of evidence leading me to believe that my wife was having an affair before proposing the idea of poly to me. It's not like I just pulled the theory out of my ass. Poly or no, not many people like being lied to. No need for me to go into it. The past belongs in the past. It's sorta like the existence of God-- I can't prove it either way.

Btw, there's no concrete evidence suggesting that police can read people any better than your average Joe. Ya know, if I were interviewing you, and I thought that you were BSing me, I would take advantage of any misconceptions that you had. Take the psychological advantage when you have it.