New, need advice on affair

Hello to you all,

I've only just found this site. Maybe I should read a bit before posting, but well, things are driving me mad just now. I guess i just need to get the thoughts of others.

I've been married for 14 years and in the relationship for 20 years. My wife and I are both 42 and have two fabulous kids. Things have been good in the main, but like all relationships, there have always been ups and downs and hurdles we've both had to get over together. I love my wife and I know she loves me.

So, why am I here?

We've both had busy careers. To help out with the kids we've had au-pairs for many years. These au-pairs have been fantastic, fun individuals, all of them. Every one has been attractive, but never did anything cross my mind other they worked for us and were/are great friends... All bar one.

This is going to sound like a film, but... we all got very drunk one night and, to cut a long story short, it resulted in me having an affair with a 21-year old that lasted the whole 9 months until she left to go back to Europe. I thought that was that, but it's not. I am still in love with my wife, but now also in love with someone else. I thinks it's mad, but I can't choose between the two. I see them both as people I love.

The au-pair is now in Europe and in regular contact with me. My wife knows what happened between us. The au-pair wants to come back to live with us. She says she wants us to live together as three people in a relationship. She says she has thought over and over about it, and it's what she wants.

This is driving me mad. My wife sometimes seems to say things about it that suggest she has thought about and then she is very anti the idea. But I know it's what I want.

I don't want to lose my wife and kids, but I also can't say goodbye to the other side of things... hence why it's driving me crazy.

My wife has said 'Well, you have to choose,' but I can't. I love them both, and it goes round and round in never-ending circles.

How do I move forward?

Wow. Ok.

It's possible to move an existing relationship from monogamous to polyamorous when one partner doesn't like the idea, but it's very hard. It's triply hard when you're coming from a place of cheating and broken trust. Possible, but it takes a LOT of hard work on everyone's part.

What's not possible is moving this woman into your home any time soon and keeping your marriage. How is your wife supposed to accept the presence in her home, the place that should be her safe space, of a woman who participated in deceiving her for 9 months? The living symbol of your infidelity and untrustworthiness? How is she supposed to cope?

Living together in a poly configuration is a daunting challenge when all the people involved like and trust each other. Even then, it's tough to negotiate issues of sharing, space, time, and jealousy. It takes a truly strong set of relationships. Attempting that obstacle course with a shattered foundation? It will blow up, and blow up badly.

The only possible way forward that I see that has any chance for you to keep both relationships is for you to put the relationship with the au pair on hold, explain to your wife that you've done so, and begin the process of making amends to her, and exploring the idea of poly with her in a more sane way. Maybe, *maybe* you can get to the point with your wife where you and the au pair could continue something without ending your marriage, but not with her living with you anytime remotely soon.

If the whole thing about her living with you is because she has no other way to be in the States, well... I hate to say it, but has it occurred to you that she may like you a whole lot, but also have ulterior motives here? Also, has it occurred to you that, the cheating and the complete lack of realism aside, there might be other issues with elevating a physical affair with this barely-adult woman, who is literally half your age and who you only know as your employee, to the same level of importance as your 20-year relationship with your life partner?

I mean, where is this coming from? Trouble in the marriage, midlife crisis? No matter how many drinks you had on the night it started, a 9 month affair doesn't happen by accident.

Just out of curiosity, if your wife were to come around and everything were to work out great, would you be prepared to accept her having a relationship with another man, and would you welcome him to live in your home too?

Hi. I take on all you points, for sure.

I'm not in the USA, so it doesn't really come into it in terms of 'motive.'

This was someone who lived with us 24/7 and the reality of how we've dealt with all the au-pairs we've had was not 'employee.' It has been as friends, rightly or wrongly.

Is there more going on? Well, I suppose there could be, but not consciously. It just happened and carried on, but while it did and has I've felt even more positive about my wife.

I do get what you say about the other woman living with us, and the break of trust, etc., as the two of them were very friendly when she lived with us.

The barely adult thing I just don't agree with at all. This is a 22-year old, not an 18 year old, and she's very mature in thought, etc.

I guess all these situations are difficult. Mine sure is.

Would I feel okay about a guy living with us? No, I wouldn't. But the thought of a relationship between my wife and another guy is not a No.

This forum may not have answers, because there are no right and wrong answers, but thanks.

Interesting that I never think about the 'age' thing. It's just a number. But then I guess both my wife and I are lucky in not looking or acting like settled-down 40 somethings. Mid-life crisis, I guess, in numbers terms, I'm there. But in thought, no. I still do crazy sports and mad stuff. Maybe this should make me start to consider 'mid-life'?

Hello, and welcome!

I assumed your location, since most of the posters here seem to be from either the US or Europe. My bad. May I ask what area of the world you're in?

If you're paying someone's salary, they are in fact your employee, and that creates a skewed power dynamic, no matter how egalitarian you are in your dealings with them. What I was trying to say there is that you have not yet known her in a situation of full equality, and that it might be wise to get to know her outside of a position where you control her livelihood before assuming you'd be a good match as life partners.

As for the age thing, I think barely adult is perfectly valid because she has, in fact, only been an adult for a few years. She may be mature in thought, but she is very young in terms of experience, and it's thought plus experience combined that create wisdom. I would never say that such a relationship couldn't work, but it does pose extra challenges.

The thing I find difficult to understand is how you could feel so positive about your wife, yet deceive her for so long. That does not seem to me like a healthy relationship. But you know your marriage better than I.

Each situation is different, you're right, and no one can give you the answers, they can only offer perspectives that may lead you to your own answers.

I wonder if it would be helpful to consider more why you wouldn't be okay with your wife bringing a new male partner to live with you, and to in that way attempt to better understand the difficult position your request has put her in.

grim64 said:

How do I move forward?

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Well, if your wife is not consenting, you don't.

You can't always get what you want.

It might be that this woman was a good friend of your wife, but this dynamic is very different. Moving her back in with you is unwise, I think. It took me and my partners 18 months to adjust enough for my boyfriend to move in. Dynamics need to play out, boundaries negotiated and tried out, time management around kids, sex, sleeping arrangements, eating together and not, private time. All of these things take time and emotional effort, as well as skill to accomplish and be confident about. It's not the same as an au pair living with you to take care of the kids, and her being a friend.

If I were in your situation, I would help her find a place to live, a job and move her to location near you. Make a plan to get a schedule going whereby you spend time with your wife, time with your kids, time with her, time with all of you and time with some of you. Once she has a steady group of friends that are her own (maybe she already does if she has been living there before), gets comfortable with the situation, as does your wife, then think about the dynamic change of having her move in. That way there will be certainty that it's going to work without disrupting your kids, your wife, your marriage, or her life and future also. Her having a place to retreat to is going to be helpful anyway, I think.

As to making a choice? It sounds like your wife is not on board with this. It sounds as if she would like to be, and is working on that, but if she is going to have someone move into her home that will be her equal in every way, then that is a huge threat, I would think. Not to mention the ramifications of you having cheated. I can't imagine she is that willing to just be okay with the woman that you cheated with moving into her home. They might've been friends, but the deception she is feeling is likely huge. Maybe she would be more willing to accept that you love this woman and that she is going to be sharing you if you suggested she rent somewhere for a year or so in order for all of you to get used to the situation.

I am curious about your wife. It is very uncommon for a woman to not lose her mind when her husband cheats. How has that been going for her?

I'm interested to know how you and your wife are dealing with rebuilding trust in your relationship. I suspect that without it, it'll be very difficult to move forward with both of your loves.

You seem very focussed on how to keep both relationships. I wonder if that focus is a little off.

My experience has been that broken trust in relationships takes a very long time to repair. In my case, it was a couple of years after a significant break in trust before I felt like I could trust that particular individual again. Much of that time was spent working on rebuilding the trust that had been lost. For me, the broken trust was the issue, and at that time, I would not have been open to dealing with rebuilding trust while also trying to deal with the situation that had caused the broken trust still carrying on.

I hope you, your wife and your gf are able to work things out so that all of you can feel secure and happy.

grim64 said:

Would I feel ok about a guy living with us? No, nut the thought of a relationship between my wife and another guy is not a No.
This forum may not have answers because there are no right and wrong answers.

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My answer to this is I don't think it's fair of you to, number one, move this girl in with you until you would feel the same way about a guy moving in. The one thing I feel in being in a poly relationship is practicing being in the other person's shoes.

And secondly, as much as you are going through NRE right now with this very young lady, it will wear off.

Have you had discussions with your wife in detail about this? What has she said?

You want advice on how to get a (very mature) 22-yr old au pair, who you had a 9-month affair with, back into your house, and have your wife of 20 yrs be okay with it. That's called a miracle. The laws of the universe don't work that way.

You could try hypnosis... not for your wife, for you. This NRE condition can be a very destructive force, and most people while under the influence can't seem to accurately calculate the downside of things until they've lost those things. So I'd be very careful. You need to look up NRE.

Good luck and please let us know what happens.

NRE... I know what it means, and in answer to that, well, this started nearly 2 years ago and she's been gone for well over 12 months.

I really wanted her leaving to be the end of things, and assumed it was. Unfortunately, it's just got worse since then.

Maybe the idea of us all together is completely crazy, but as two of the three in this want that to at least try and happen, I have to see how it goes.

grim64 said:

Maybe the idea of us all together is completely crazy, but as two of the three in this want that to at least try and happen, I have to see how it goes...

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Sorry, but I have to say: This isn't a question of democratic majority. If one person in your equation isn't happy and the others say, "Well, let's go with it, we are two and we think this should work, so suck it up and try," you failed big time in regard to what a relationship should provide for all people involved. Your wife has the same right to feel happy and fulfilled in her relationship as you want to be. And from what you described, she doesn't seem to be on the same page.

Grim, you were dishonest, and a cheater. Your wife did not kick you out, but told you it's either her or the au pair (who very well could just want to be with you for a free place to stay).

Now, you say you love your wife, but you are very fixated on this other chick. You just want what you want and now are being totally selfish.

What about investing in the marriage that you broke with your lying and cheating? What about getting back to a place of solid partnership with the woman you betrayed? Have you romanced your wife lately? Taken her out, allowed yourself to feel the depth of the hurt you caused her? Fix that shit first before you start telling yourself it's okay to move the au pair in so you can fuck around again. Either that, or listen to your wife, know she means business, and move out. She made it plain what your choices are. Time to snap out of your daydream and wake up.

Wow, nothing like a balanced point of view, eh?

Thanks.............

Yes I still 'romance' my wife. We get on despite what's happened/is happening, very well. We still have a loving active sex life and I still care for her and look after her intensely.

The person looking for a 'free place to stay' is not an au-pair anymore. She works in a career in Europe and will likely stay there to develop that over time and would only move here if that could work here too. If it were possible, she wants her own career in amongst our very successful family. My wife and I are both executive-level senior managers in large global corporations.

I find it hard to believe that those here who can seem very aggressive and dismissive all have poly relationships that come out of a 'no hurt to anyone' beginning. I will only do this if it's a happy situation for all involved, whether it's liked or loathed here.

Yes, I did cheat on my wife, but I love her completely. The problem is I also now love someone else. That person is now successful in what she's begun and does not, as you imply, 'need' me or us. She wants to be with me and us.

The age thing I couldn't care less about. Luckily my wife, at 42, looks nothing like her age at all, and neither do I. There's a wide variance in the way 40-somethings behave, some are 40, on route to retirement. Others, like us, are very fit, very active and young at heart.

There is much information on this forum that's been helpful...

My earlier comment of 2 out of 3 wanting this was not imposing something at all. It was meant to say that as a result it was worth discussion between us all.

Ultimately, my wife is my wife, and the other person is not. A decision one way or another will have to be made, and either way it will upset someone.

Judgmental comments don't help. I suspect there are a few who tune in here who simply detest the fact this began out of an affair. That's life, I'm afraid...

I think everyone here is genuinely trying to be helpful. Some do that by nudging, some by pushing. But if you do more reading here you will see that people get a range of responses, including those whose relationships started as affairs. Maybe do a search for cheating and see what you find.

I think the negativity you're getting comes primarily from a couple of things.

One, you haven't yet acknowledged here any responsibility or remorse for the affair. You've instead said, "We all got very drunk one night, and to cut a long story short, it resulted in me having an affair," and "It just happened and carried on," and, "I really wanted her leaving to be the end of things," and, "That's life. I'm afraid." All of these wordings imply that this is just something that happened to you that you had no control over. Maybe that's not how you really feel, but we can't hear tone or see body language here, we can only go on your words, and your words are saying that you don't see this as your fault.

Taking the stance that in some way the actions you take out of passion are beyond your control is extremely dangerous in poly. And while I don't think anyone wants you to crawl in a depressive hole about it, it implies to us a certain lack of empathy from you towards your wife for you to come here and not express regret for deceiving her for 9 months. A simple, "I feel so bad for betraying her," if it happens you do, would go a long way.

Two, you've spoken in very little detail about your wife's thoughts on the matter. Again, maybe this is not how you really feel, but when her voice is largely absent it makes it seem like you're more interested in having us help you figure out how to get what you want, rather than in crafting a solution that will work best for everyone. Again, it makes it seem like you don't feel much empathy for her when you don't focus on her role in this drama. When you do mention her feelings, you then immediately counter with why that won't work for you -- "My wife sometimes seems to say things about it that suggest she has thought about and then she is very anti the idea, but I know its what i want," and "My wife has said 'well you have to choose,' but I can't".

Polyq4 did ask above, "Have you had discussions with your wife in detail about this? What has she said?" and if you're still looking for advice, we could probably give it much better with that information. Her feelings matter here, too. And while in your last post you acknowledge that, your previous posts haven't seemed to, thus the negativity.

One more bit about the lack of info, we guess at things like the former au pair's motives because until your last post we knew so little about her aside from the fact that she worked for you and was a partner in this affair. We can't respond to nuance if we don't know what it is, y'know.

One more thought on the responses you've been getting.

If it were simply that you wanted to continue both relationships, I think people would still support your wife's right to say no, and might still have some harsh advice for you, but they would also probably be more sympathetic to you. But what you're talking about is moving "the other woman" into your home, which would be FAR more disruptive, and possibly much more painful for your wife, not to mention the disruption it would cause for your children, if things went poorly.

It's a step that should only be undertaken very thoughtfully and in an atmosphere of respect, trust, and stability, which takes time to develop. A secret affair with an employee/friend plus a mutual longing from afar does not a stable relationship make.

The fact that you do not seem to be willing to consider a less drastic alternative, a compromise that could be easier on your wife, comes across as callous and strange. People have mentioned the idea of continuing the relationship without moving her in at this point, and you haven't responded to that idea, so we can only assume you've rejected it. Do you see what I'm saying?

I wasn't trying to be aggressive or dismissive, just looking at the situation and giving my honest opinion.

Problems you face:
1. Cheating/betrayal.
2. Mid-life change up. I call it restless heart syndrome.
3. Established wife feeling she's being replaced by younger newer model. Hard to argue against that.
4. Staunch philosophical resistance from wife.

I can see each one individually being a major sticking point or deal breaker. All in concert together? Sorry, I just don't see how to get over all of them. Could you do it? Sure. God bless you. And please let us know how you did it.

Roles reversed: this nice young 22-yr old guy comes to your country to help his uncle with his landscaping business. This kid spends a lot of time around your wife... yada yada yada... they have an 8-month sexual affair. Your wife admits to actually falling in love with the lad, and wants him to move in with you. You never saw it coming. What do you say? How would that work, outside of free yard work?

I agree with AnnabelMore. I wanted to add that there seems to be a disconnect for you about how moving someone in will effect everyone. It sounds to me that you are making an assumption that this young woman would want to be taken care of monetarily, or at least that this is what you would do, because you can afford it. Apart from the fact that she seems to be creating her own success in life and doesn't need your money, this issue of moving in has nothing to do with money or taking the responsibility of money out of someone's hands. This is to do with emotions, creating a healthy home and life for each person involved, including the kids.

Read the tags under "moving in." There are very few, if any, success stories with the situation you describe. I personally have responded to many people who have stopped posting here (embarrassed, ashamed, don't want to be a downer) that have not had success when rushing partners into their home, or moving them in to take care of them, or expecting a spouse who has been cheated on to accept a new woman at a stage when she is mourning the loss of her relationship as she knew it, and feeling the repercussions of betrayal and deception. As far as I have known for the 15 years of being polyamorous, and three years of writing here, it just is not a good idea. These things take time and process, as I mentioned in my last post.

Why doesn't it work?

Well, kids get attached. Then they are left hurt when they've been told to "love your other mother," but then she leaves after a time. This woman might've been an au par, but she and they will see a difference. She is not hired, she is your lover. Big difference.

Your wife will likely feel she needs to give up time with you. She might feel second best, that she is not enough, that you are still sneaking around behind her back, that you really don't love her, that she has to consider someone else in her life that has been forced on her.

The other woman might feel second best, that she has no say in her living situation, that she gets the dregs of your time, that the wife always comes first.

Both might find that they resent each other, causing a big fat elephant of drama in the room every moment of your lives.

You have a huge task. I know something of that task, and I can tell you, it is mostly about time management, stuffing my own shit because my loves have issues, and having very little me time.

I don't envy your situation, but I am here to tell you I think you need to be realistic.

If you do decide to move her in, please let us know how that goes. I love to be wrong about this stuff. Seriously, I love to eat my words when people show me their success and happiness. It makes my day, because, bottom line, I like to know people have created successful relationship dynamics.