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  #11  
Old 12-02-2011, 02:34 PM
dingedheart dingedheart is offline
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That's really progressive of the Dutch.... blaming the tourist for their vice policy.
The government began the defacto pimp. The country pimped out their women for tourist....men from other countries ? How generous of them. I think plenty of Dutch men like this service.

I've been to been to Amsterdam twice once for pleasure and once for a bachelor party...dont really remember the second ...lucky to come home with both kidneys so I for one appreciated their hospitality. Thank God organ selling/ harvesting isn't legal there.

I say go for it. Or rather have him go for it. You could go see the Anne Frank house/museum or canal tour. You weren't thinking of going with him were you ?

What are the prices now? I wonder if the world economy has hurt that industry as well.


Wasn't this sourgirl crazy idea.... what the heck ... hit and run ...no follow up....I'm a little disappointed.
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  #12  
Old 12-02-2011, 02:37 PM
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hyperskeptic hyperskeptic is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnnabelMore View Post
I think a one-off, for example paying a tour guide to follow you around for a day and be friendly, paying a prostitute for a fun hour together, both with no expectations or misunderstanding of something deeper or a ongoing relationship, is very different from expecting a rented friend or a rented lover to be able to take the place of deeper, mutually-chosen versions of those relationships.
Maybe it comes down to this: I judge it inappropriate to think of sexual intimacy as meaningless fun, abstracted from all context, all connection, all responsibility.

So, I judge it inappropriate to buy and sell sexual intimacy, even as a one-off, "thank-you-and-have-a-nice-day" kind of transaction.

I think I have good reason for my judgment though, being a skeptic, I know I might be wrong.
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  #13  
Old 12-02-2011, 02:45 PM
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AnnabelMore AnnabelMore is offline
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Originally Posted by hyperskeptic View Post
Maybe it comes down to this: I judge it inappropriate to think of sexual intimacy as meaningless fun, abstracted from all context, all connection, all responsibility.

So, I judge it inappropriate to buy and sell sexual intimacy, even as a one-off, "thank-you-and-have-a-nice-day" kind of transaction.

I think I have good reason for my judgment though, being a skeptic, I know I might be wrong.
That makes sense and explains the disconnect between us on this issue. Though I don't agree, I do think that meaningless sex is far less fun and fulfilling than sex with context and connection.

I do wonder what you would suggest for the case of a man who is badly disfigured or broken physically or just deeply inept socially and can't find sexual release with another human being without paying for it. Of course we'd like to think that's such cases don't exist but they do. Is it acceptable for them to buy and for a woman to sell then?
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  #14  
Old 12-02-2011, 03:15 PM
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hyperskeptic hyperskeptic is offline
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Originally Posted by AnnabelMore View Post
That makes sense and explains the disconnect between us on this issue. Though I don't agree, I do think that meaningless sex is far less fun and fulfilling than sex with context and connection.

I do wonder what you would suggest for the case of a man who is badly disfigured or broken physically or just deeply inept socially and can't find sexual release with another human being without paying for it. Of course we'd like to think that's such cases don't exist but they do. Is it acceptable for them to buy and for a woman to sell then?
Hm.

It's said that tough cases make bad policy.

This reminds me too much of the contrived moral dilemmas my fellow philosophers often cook up, like the trolley problem. (Choose: let the trolley run over five people strapped to one track, or flip a switch to divert the trolley to another track, where it will kill just one person.)

In the case you describe, if I were really hard-line about this, I'd say: Well, that's just the breaks. Sometimes life isn't fair.

I'm not sure I'd be that hard-line about it (and, incidentally, I do see the point about the health and security benefits of not prohibiting prostitution). Even so, in a case like the one you'd describe, I would still think purchasing sex would be a bad thing even if it's somehow more understandable.

And, to come back to reality for a moment, the case you describe is nothing like the situation in question in this thread.
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  #15  
Old 12-02-2011, 04:07 PM
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AnnabelMore AnnabelMore is offline
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Originally Posted by hyperskeptic View Post
And, to come back to reality for a moment, the case you describe is nothing like the situation in question in this thread.
It's true, I wandered into sidetrack land. I just get really upset by the criminalization of victim-less "crimes" (another example would be marijuana use) and by policies that seek to make something we find unsavory go away by acting as if it won't exist and the underlying mechanisms driving it will go away if we just frown hard enough rather than trying to address the reality in a frank and realistic way that mitigates the most harm (another example would be teen sex and abstinence only education). I think both do much to drag our country down and ruin lives.
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  #16  
Old 12-02-2011, 05:32 PM
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SNeacail SNeacail is offline
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Guys, I think this thread has been hijacked past where it's helpful to the OP.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AnnabelMore View Post
I would say go for it. Why not? If you plan to open your relationship regardless, and encounters will be mainly about sex for him regardless, why not start with a professional?

There's actually one huge advantage I see to this. Right now you have no idea what your reaction will be. If you have a bad reaction and his first time is with someone you both know or someone he unexpectedly likes emotionally, that will be a difficult situation for all involved and could put the other person in a bad position.

Whereas if you have a bad reaction to his encounter with a prostitute, there will be absolutely no impact on her and you can be guaranteed he will never see her again.
This. I'd also discuss your concerns with your husband.
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  #17  
Old 12-02-2011, 05:37 PM
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vanille vanille is offline
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Quote:
This. I'd also discuss your concerns with your husband.
We talk and talk about it I also just showed him this thread.
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  #18  
Old 12-02-2011, 05:53 PM
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Anneintherain Anneintherain is offline
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I don't know if you've wandered through the red light district yet, but I found it reallllly unsexy. He might go through it and decide it's not for him.

I am not sure if you said what you'd be doing? Are you going with him? Waiting around outside (might be uncomfortable) ? Seeing if there is somewhere inside you can wait? Staying at the hotel?

I think if you don't have a problem with prostitution, this wouldn't be the worst thing to do. It would give you some fast ideas about how you feel about him being intimate with somebody else, and although being out of town involves lots of its own stresses (aka easier to fight, get emotional, react more strongly than you would while at home and well rested) you should be able to process it pretty quickly maybe? But if you are not OK with it and think you're rushing it because of wanting him to be happy, just make sure to think hard about it.

edit: And I really like what AnnabelMore said about if it's not with somebody you know/has potentional to be more than a one-off, that does have benefits. If there is hurt, it's only going to affect you/your husband.
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Last edited by Anneintherain; 12-02-2011 at 05:57 PM.
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  #19  
Old 12-02-2011, 06:20 PM
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hyperskeptic hyperskeptic is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SNeacail View Post
Guys, I think this thread has been hijacked past where it's helpful to the OP.
Maybe so, and I'm sorry if the discussion went so far afield as to not be interesting or helpful to Vanille. Still, it's all relevant to the question of whether it's a good idea for someone to purchase the services of a prostitute in the context of *ethical* non-monogamy.

Frankly, I would be concerned (not to mention astonished) if my wife were to consider having a one night stand with someone. I would be deeply disturbed, even horrified, if she proposed to pay someone to have sex with her as a one-off transaction. It would make me wonder what value she places on sexual intimacy, if she were willing to put a price on it.

But, as I keep saying, that's my own view of the matter. Vanille and Armani ar entitled to see it differently.
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  #20  
Old 12-02-2011, 06:34 PM
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Anneintherain Anneintherain is offline
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Well I think that is what is good - she knows ahead of time that he's more interested (at the time at least) in casual or non romantic sex. Much better than going into it assuming that both of them want the same thing then finding out later that she's wrong?

And maybe she will be "horrified" but then at least she knows how she feels about it (about prostitution AND one night stands) and they can negotiate from there. Either they will or won't be able to find compromise, but I have a feeling they will be working hard on it.

I actually considered seeing a prostitute while I was in Amsterdam, since I thought it might be an interesting experiment in exploring my interest in women, but I didn't. Besides finding the area depressing and not wanting to invade the women's privacy by actually LOOKING at them, it did make it clear to me that it (one sided sex where I wasn't desired by the other party) wasn't for me. I can see how it would be an option for people with different desires though.
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