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  #121  
Old 01-06-2013, 07:38 AM
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rory - It's lovely to have such happy things happening Thanks for your replies. Sounds like you had a great NY too! Yeah, I'm very glad to get things feeling better around Ella. Unfinished business can be pretty draining.

Wedding last night was fun! One of the chosen readings was an excerpt from some US law on same-sex marriages (can't remember what, I think it may have been a quote from the Goodridge case in MA). This sparked a conversation at the reception, with a cousin of the bride, about the function of marriage. I brought up the complication of what marriage could mean in non-monogamous relationships, too, and his eyes glazed over a bit. I realised it would be easier to make it personal instead of hypothetical, so I started talking about my own situation. Was useful as a case study, and made for a really good discussion.

Later, I saw him having a lengthy tete-a-tete with Ocean, and at the end of the night the bride mentioned that she had thought the two of us would get along with her cousin, and would arrange a meal to catch up with him again at some point. I enjoy making friends with people who both Ocean & get along with, and I especially liked starting off on the right foot with him re: being out as poly... If people meet Ocean & I as a couple, it's usually a while (if at all) before that comes up.

Christmas this year was great. Could have been tricky, but ended up wonderful. I read some advice elsewhere on this forum, to discuss expectations for celebrations that are important to you (e.g. Thanksgiving) well in advance, months even, to avoid unnecessary stress. I like this idea and have stored it for the future!

Unless I'm visiting my parents (who live overseas) I tend to have a relaxed Christmas, spending the day hanging out with Ocean, family and/or friends. This year, Grotto was initially planning to make it back to our home city for Christmas, but the cost of flights meant he actually left on Boxing Day. So. He was here for Christmas and wanted to see me on Christmas Day.

But I had a couple of family commitments. My aunt has recently come out of 10 year relationship and wanted to spend Christmas together. She lives a wee while out of town, and I knew she'd love if we were there for Christmas eve and stayed the night. My uncle (her brother) is in a nursing home so we decided to visit him together on Christmas Day itself. As Ocean & I were flying out in the evening (to go camping at a festival over New Years), I wasn't sure if I'd have time to see Grotto on the 25th.

I told him this, and he was sad about it. He really wanted to see if we could make time. I suggested that he come to my aunt's place too and stay the night with us. I'm out to her, we're pretty close and she's really non-judgmental. She's met Grotto, and always invites him to things when she invites Ocean & me. Given how far she is out of town, Grotto wasn't sure about coming but said he'd think about it. We left it at that.

A few days later, he said he'd come! My aunt was really excited Okay, I was too. She came into the city on Christmas eve at night and picked us all up. Back at her place, we had a cheese platter, champagne, strawberries, watched shitty Santa movies, had a spa, opened presents at midnight (my aunt got Grotto something he loved, a great present, he wasn't expecting that and was quite touched.)

There is just one spare room at my aunt's, so we'd prepared by having a discussion about sleeping expectations. Didn't want a repeat of the other day. Ocean said that three in the bed was okay if it was just sleeping. If Grotto and I wanted to fool around we'd use the couch (or elsewhere, heh.)

Ocean went to bed early as he was tired. Grotto and I stayed up, fucked about in the spa, passed out by accident on the couch around 3am. I woke up a couple of hours later, and we slipped into bed with Ocean. So cosy, so good! We call it a sleepy sandwich

In the morning, Grotto made his signature brunch (eggs benedict) for the four of us. I got up and helped while Ocean slept in. We made mimosas, took our time over food, then played Scrabble (Ocean just beat Grotto) before going to visit my uncle. He'd organised food for us, was very sweet. We're not out to him about Grotto, but he knew he was a friend of ours and didn't have any family here, so it didn't need explaining. My aunt dropped the three of us back to the city, then Ocean & I rushed to get to the airport in time (the drive back took longer than expected) while Grotto went home to get spruced up for a Xmas party at Bijou's flat that night.

Being with both Ocean and Grotto for Christmas was very special. I'd recently heard this quote, which is cheesy but I like it - "the best Christmas present is the presence of family & friends wrapped up in each other". That's very true for me. That said, for the first time, Ocean got me a Christmas present! I was surprised, as we don't usually do presents (and I hadn't got him anything). He admitted that he thought he should since he had got Menrva something. Hah. Grotto had been saying the same thing to me earlier in the week (as he'd got Bijou a present) and I assured him that he didn't have to get me one to balance it out. I don't like the thought of anyone stressing about what to get me as a present. Spending time on each other is what I love the most.

A couple of quick snippets to round off the holiday tales:

- As Ocean & I were hurrying to get organised for the airport, I got a message from Ella: could she, her brother & niece stay at our place? Turns out things weren't so fun at her other brother's place (who lives here). I said, sure, I'd leave the keys in the letterbox. They apparently had a grand time, and left the day before we got back. Our apartment is now studded with cute artificats of their visit - drawings on the wall, exquisite corpse stories under the sofa, a packet of sparklers on a side table. I'm glad we could help them out, and I liked the connection of Ella being here while I was away.

- Camping over New Years with Ocean was excellent! A perfect way to round off the year, and refocus. The festival was packed with things we wanted to do and see. Of the offerings on NY eve, there was one show I really wanted to go to, a tribute to a early 20th C songwriter... I told Ocean I was close to non-negotiable on that, and he was surprised. He was a fan too but had no idea I was into that person's music. A blissful way to discover another common interest We saw the sunrise on 1st Jan and dozed for most of the day. 2nd Jan was our wedding anniversary (three years this year) and we treated ourselves to a fancy brunch before making our way home.

Last edited by fuchka; 01-06-2013 at 07:40 AM.
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  #122  
Old 01-08-2013, 12:17 AM
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I had an epiphany yesterday. I'm not good at articulating my desires, when they involve other people. General desires aren't problematic, e.g. "I want to spend more time with you". But when it's specific, like "I want to see you tonight, I'd like to walk home together, cuddle and talk for a bit, then cook dinner, then paint together, then roll around in bed til we fall asleep, then wake up in the morning with the sun, then fuck, then I make coffee and cook eggs for breakfast and then we both get ready to face the day's tasks"? Not so much.

It's fine when it's a need. Sometimes I really need a hug, or to talk something out. But when it's a peculiar instance of a greater want, I'm not good with expressing this.

For example, yesterday. As we hadn't spent time together in a couple of days, Grotto suggested we catch up and write/paint/do something creative in the evening. I said that sounded great, and invited him round to my place. I told him I was meeting a friend at 5 for a quick post-work drink but would be free after that. I mentioned there was something I had to check on at 7pm on the way home from town, but beyond that I had no other commitments. We messaged each other around 6 when I was done with my friend, and Grotto said he was having a drink with work colleagues at their regular bar, quite nearby, wanna meet here? Sure, I replied, see ya soon.

When I got there, he was unwinding from his first day back at work. The usual crowd was in attendance, and I had a quick catch up with everyone. Grotto was smiley... he'd had some good times with Bijou over the weekend and I guess things were going well. He wanted to chill and drink some more but I was keen to get back home. After a while, Bijou turned up (it's her regular drinking spot too) and we hugged and said brief hullos, all quite pleasant, Grotto grinning Cheshire cats.

Grotto's mates hole themselves up in the bar's smoking room, which is this odd claustrophobic cage with languid, almost lagubrious vibes. It can sometimes feel like the doldrums being there. I realised I was on a different buzz to him, having had a relatively unproductive day and keen to make something of the evening & night whereas he was recovering from the grind of the first office Monday of 2013.

I said - "hey, I wanna head off, do you just want to come round to mine later on?" "Stay," he said, "just for a while and then we'll leave." Ok. I went outside, drank some water, met some interesting folks loitering in the street, came back in... Grotto was nowhere near leaving, and I wanted to make my 7pm appointment (checking out a writing desk I'd seen online), so I told him I'd scoot off.

"I'll text you later on, and come round?" he said.

At that point, my bleargh kicked in. "Ah, nah, don't worry about it, we'll catch up some other time." I didn't want him to make plans with me that he'd break or regret later, if he'd rather not come over to my place. Seemed like people were having a good time and, esp with Bijou being there, he might be more inclined to stay out than see me. "Tomorrow?" he asked. "I'm busy tomorrow, and I think Wednesday too... (Ocean & I have a tentative date on Wed) how about Thursday?" "Ok, love." He kissed me, and the resident gay boys called us "breeders" (ah man, I remember doing the same to other hetero couples when I was only dating women, whoops)

On the way home, I had a crescendo of emotional nausea... What the fuck is wrong with me? Why was I so restless? Grotto seemed really happy, why couldn't I relax and spend time with him with other people? It was a good chance to hang out with Bijou there, but I passed it up. Yeah, I had this other commitment but me leaving was more than that. I... just didn't want to be there. I wanted to be either doing my own thing, or spending one-on-one time with Grotto. I wasn't in the mood for staying at the bar.

So why couldn't I just say that, and ask Grotto to leave with me? Why did I cancel our date? I definitely wanted to spend quality time with him, just the two of us, and in particular doing creative projects because it's been ages since we've set aside time and energy for that and we keep saying that we should. But... it's like, I only wanted that if he also wanted that. I didn't want to put my desire out like a need, with him feeling obliged to follow through, just cos we'd made plans.

I felt angry at myself, for being worked up but unable to voice what was bothering me. I composed a few texts to Grotto on the way home, but they were no good so I didn't send them. When I'd left the bar, it was on a cheery note, and he had no reason to suspect I was feeling bad now. Mm. I decided to let it be, not to spoil his night by sending serious texts. There was nothing I needed to sort out with him right now. It was more my mood, and I was just looking forward to getting home and channeling the funk of my emotions into some creative outlet.

At home, things were better. I started to untangle the knots of myself a little. Planned dinner. Then I get a call from Grotto - can he still come over? He wanted to see me. Well, fuck, that cheered me up. When he got here he was the sweetest thing, said Thursday was too far away, said he was worried that I was feeling awkward about Bijou. I reassured him that it wasn't that, which was a relief to him. It's really not that, I don't think, or at least it's a small part. I had already been thinking that Grotto seemed like he wanted to stay out drinking rather than come back to mine, and I felt like I was dragging him away from his friends to ask him to leave with me. Bijou arriving made that feeling even stronger, but it definitely wasn't triggered by her being there.

The rest of the night was great. Ocean came home soon after Grotto got here, so they hung out while I made ratatouille. We had dinner together the three of us, then Ocean read while Grotto and I made motions towards getting ready to write together. I was dubious as to whether Grotto would be up for it (it was 11pm by now) and sure enough he fell asleep while I was out of the room for 30 seconds. So cute. I set him up to sleep on the sofa bed, said good night to Ocean, and went back to sleep with Grotto. In the morning we may have succeeded in quiet-not-waking-Ocean-up sex, I'm not sure. Five mins after we were done, Ocean got out of bed and went for a jog Gonna have to ask him about that later.

I made breakfast and packed lunch for everyone, while Ocean and Grotto got organised for work and teased me about my inability to get fingered in the belly button ("It tickles!" "But I'm not even moving it... come on" "Nooooo... !") Hug and kiss from Grotto as he headed out the door, and the same with Ocean about five minutes later. I could get used to this

It's Grotto's birthday on Thursday, and he wants to do drinks somewhere. I'm gonna message Bijou and see if she'd be keen to sleep over together at Grotto's place that night. I reckon he'd like that.

In the meantime, what I've learnt from my epiphany is that I need to find a way of saying this:

- I don't want to drag you away from what you're currently doing, if you prefer doing this
- I don't want to be an obligation
- I don't need this right now; it can wait til later or I can do without it
- There are many specific ways I enjoy spending time with you, and I find it hard to prioritise this way over other ways
- I like the fluidity of going with the flow
BUT
- I'd love to hang out with you right now in this particular way, if you're down for it too.

Last edited by fuchka; 01-08-2013 at 12:21 AM.
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  #123  
Old 01-09-2013, 02:24 PM
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Ocean & I had a date tonight. We worked on inventing a card game together, then went to a local eatery we'd been wanting to try out for a while. Being creative with him is often challenging because we frequently talk past each other. It can get frustrating, but I enjoy it for the learning and intimacy. We get better at communicating each time we tackle a more difficult project... I'm in love with the process. I'm also glad we managed a date night before we needed it. Plus, we've got some time scheduled on the weekend too, yay!

Grotto's birthday tomorrow. Bijou liked the idea of both of us sleeping over at his place at night. Am meeting her for lunch beforehand to discuss. Will be our first meet up alone; excited Fuck, she's luscious.
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  #124  
Old 01-12-2013, 05:03 PM
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Grotto's birthday went really well. He invited a group of his close friends to drinks at his house. Ocean was in high spirits; he clicked with one of Grotto's workmates and the two of them were having animated conversations on the balcony.

Bijou and I stole some time away from everyone to chat (she had to work through her lunch break that day, so we didn't get a chance to talk earlier as planned.) She said she really respected our relationship (i.e. Grotto's and mine), didn't want to intrude on our private space, etc. All good stuff. Then we made out a bit, and had to drag ourselves back to being sociable.

Meanwhile, Grotto's trying to figure out where everyone's gonna sleep, having no idea Bijou & I have already conspired about the bedtime arrangements. Needless to say, he had a very happy birthday Bijou & I texted the next day about how much fun we had and how high we felt. Life is good.
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  #125  
Old 01-17-2013, 01:55 AM
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An ongoing complaint Grotto has with me is my inability to "talk about my feelings". He means specifically when there's something on my mind, that I'm still processing but keeping it all inside. He can tell there's something up, and he wants to know what.

This is not a case of me wanting to say something, but for whatever reason not being able to speak up. It's just - I don't want to talk about it right now. Yes, I have something on my mind but I don't know what I think about how I'm feeling and I'd like more time to cogitate.

Usually Grotto is so frustrated, curious and worried, that he manages to squeeze something out of me (it usually involves a lot of prefacing), after which we have a fraught, strained discussion before we eventually tease things out and I admit I'm glad we talked. (As a separate point, this is not something I've experienced with other partners. I'm keen to see what Ocean thinks about me in this regard.)

Anyway, back to Grotto and me: a recent occasion when this familiar cycle was happening again, we decided to make time at a separate point to have a proper conversation about our communication styles in these situations. The "conversation" conversation, if you will. I suggested we should use the current scenario as a case study (partly to defer me having to discuss it right then, hehe, but mostly because I thought it would be a good idea to not just be talking in general terms. And it would force me to deal with the issue.)

So, a few days ago we talked about talking. I said a few things. That I do my best; that when I'm trying to communicate it's difficult if Grotto says things like "Jesus, why does it always have to be so hard for you? Why can't you just talk about your feelings?" ; that I sometimes find it easier to write than to speak about how I think/feel; that at times I struggle with framing my thoughts or feelings properly, e.g. I may have strong emotions that I think are unjustified or non-rational and I feel I need to work things out for myself before I can talk about them properly. Grotto said he wanted to be part of that working out, he wanted me to be more open to sharing with him my internal life. It was a good conversation conversation.

This morning, I tried out some of our new strategies in discussing a couple of heavy topics that had been on my mind. Wow. The talking was so easy. For my part, I had agreed to get to the point as soon as possible, say what I was feeling as best I could, confident that I would have the chance to clarify, frame or rephrase later. Grotto had agreed to be more patient with me, to take what I said at face value, and to give me time to add any qualifications to my initial statement before jumping to conclusions or responding explosively.

I got out what had been rolling around in my head, and possibly contributing to me being more reserved than usual the previous night (I was also quite tired, though). He responded with his perspective, which was really useful especially on a couple of points. Then we had creamy morning sex.

Ahh... as usual, I'm really glad we talked.
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  #126  
Old 01-17-2013, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fuchka View Post
The "conversation" conversation, if you will.
Me and Mya have these kind of meta-conversations every so often. We also do a lot of disclaimers when we talk that go along the lines of "this is how I feel but I don't think this rationally" or "this is how I feel but I don't wish you to do anything about it". I find it crucial for facilitating communication about absolutely anything, because we can be openly emotional without triggering each other into defense.
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  #127  
Old 01-18-2013, 08:12 AM
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yup rory, it's precisely those kinds of things we needed to get clear!

I asked Ocean yesterday about his thoughts on my communication style... He said I was a really roundabout communicator and often went on tangents (when it comes to general communication) but he hadn't had any issues with the way I expressed myself emotionally. I think it could be that he does a lot of internal processing of his own emotions too, so recognises that in me and doesn't pressure me to talk before I'm ready.

Next week, I'm heading back to my home country for five days to sort a bunch of practical things. I had thought that Ocean would be able to go, but he can't in the end. Ah well. Will be good to see family and friends, if I have time after I get this work done. Hope to catch up a few times with Ella, too. I'm looking forward to things being better than last time I was there.

Menrva and Bert get back from their travels the day before I leave (conveeeenient!) I'm excited for Ocean, and also in terms of doing group things with everyone. We're planning a triple date (Ocean, me, Grotto, Bijou, Menrva, Bert) if we can schedule a time and place that suits everyone. There's a possibility that the four of us (before M&B get home) are going out together to a poly event this weekend. I'm easy either way; we've been seeing quite a bit of each other. Just see what happens.

Right now I'm chilling out at home after a busy Friday at the place I'm volunteering at. Grotto was going to be cooking dinner for Bijou, but she's changed that to tomorrow night so I might roll round there to watch a movie. Ocean and I had a scheduled date last night, and another one (for household chores + art) planned for tomorrow... He and I have been doing well for making quality time to till the soil of our relationship. We touch base at the start of the week and lock in time. A default is to see each other on Saturday... this has been working well for the past three weeks.

K, gonna enjoy a bit of time home alone before heading round to Grotto's. Happy weekend y'all!

p.s. Yesterday, Ocean called Grotto my "other husband"... I paused, gave him a quizzical look. He seemed sincere and chilled about it, and yeah - it felt pretty right. I don't usually call Ocean my husband, but he calls himself my husband. Guess things are really working out
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Old 02-06-2013, 09:19 AM
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Have been keeping busy.

Visited home city, and more or less sorted out everything I needed to get done. Was very proud of myself. For once, I managed to juggle chores with socialising such that I didn't feel guilty when I was taking time out to see people, and also didn't feel stressed that I couldn't see everyone. I have many people I'm close to, and I sometimes feel spread too thinly. This time I picked a manageable number of people I wanted to see, and cut myself some slack. Phew - it felt good.

Ocean's got a job interview next month - in a different city in our home country. Sheesh, possible LDR coming up if he gets this job and decides to take it (he's unsure if he will as his current work situation is pretty good for his career, even though it isn't a permanent job.) I'm not thinking too far ahead about that. Minor freakouts but mostly calm. We'll see.

Finally got all my paperwork sorted to get my qualifications from my home country carried over to where I'm living now. Hooray! Now just have to pay the fees... I've been volunteering quite a bit here but haven't captured any paid work as yet. Trying to keep my patience, positivity and productivity. A success, in the main. Grateful that Ocean and I can still afford to make ends meet with a single income at the moment.

Starting up swimming and dance again since the holidays... my body and mind has definitely missed it.

Spent some Quality Time with Ella when I was visiting. I was camping in a tent at the back of my old house (where my friends are living now with a baby! So so cute) so we could cuddle but not be too loud. The intimacy was gentle but good. She was going away for the weekend I was there, so we didn't get much time to see each other but we stole a morning here and an evening there... It's low-key but okay.

We're not that great at keeping in touch while I'm away, though. I sense it's more her than me... I've initiated online chats a wee bit but not got very far. When we e-mail, it's usually me who sends the last message in the thread. That kind of thing. I reckon I need a bit more connection if I'm going to stay on the learning curve of Getting To Know Ella. I've been thinking of writing to her along these lines... It's okay if we don't keep in touch, but that's going to mean more work the next time [when?] we see each other.

I don't feel like I know her well enough yet, for our bodies to be uncomplicated together... something like that.

Grotto's a smidge mopey at the moment. Bijou has asked for some space, and is treating him fairly platonically these days. I feel it's possibly a seasonal thing: her scoping him out, or some other reason that could pass in time. For now, he needs a hug. Hopefully will see him tonight.

I've been spending some time with my ma the last few days, as she's visiting from overseas. Our relationship has been tough - she's very conservative Catholic and we clash a lot on topics involving sexual morality/religion. Recently we've had some good times, focusing on common interests... but there's still that tense undercurrent, an electric wire we cannot touch. I hope one day to be more open with her about my personal life, but not yet. So much is still too tender.

What else? Oh, I had this weird awful pain in my body a couple of weeks back. Not sure what it was... it's mostly gone, just a dull thing now. Some of the possibilities bode ill for my reproductive bits. I was surprised how that made me feel - panicked, sad... the foreshadowing of grief?

Ocean and I have decided to talk again about having kids in the middle of the year, when things are more certain about his job. Until then, I'd like to get more of a handle on what I really feel / want in this arena. Having spent time with friends who have children, particularly younger ones, I know the value of me being aunty - and especially an aunty who isn't drained from having kids of her own. A large part of me wants to keep it that way. The other part... requires investigation.
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  #129  
Old 02-10-2013, 11:06 PM
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Sleepy. Stayed up late making slides for a talk that Ocean's doing as part of his interview process. It's in a small city in our home country; he's there now, and will be coming back in a few days.

It's a permanent job, starting July. If he's offered it, he's not sure if he'll take it. Part of the purpose of him travelling there is to check out the environment to see if he'd want to relocate.

The possibility of him moving became more real to me as I helped prep his presentation. He's good. He's in a shortlist of four people. This could go either way.

Grotto morose. He knows that I may move if Ocean moves. At this stage, I'm not planning to, but it really depends on how everything goes for him. If Ocean's happy, and enjoying himself, it would then depend on my work and priorities. But if I am still not rooted in this new city, and especially if Ocean's not coping too well, I'd seriously consider joining him.

There's no work for Grotto in that small city. He's loving it here and doesn't want to move. He's feeling fear of abandonment, feeling a bit of hierarchy (I'd move for Ocean but wouldn't stay for him?), butting against the edges of poly. Two of them, one of me.

Meanwhile, I still haven't found paid work, and have been looking elsewhere (other cities). Still don't need another income, but I want to feel like I've got something keeping me here apart from relationships. Well, I'm involved with quite a few things here but nothing I can't leave at a moment's notice. Makes me feel flighty. Like, why am I not travelling right now?
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Old 02-11-2013, 11:27 PM
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Had a chat with Ella online. She's been busy, moving house, been away camping at a music festival. She recently received a letter that I'd sent to her last year, while travelling. It took ages and had been misdirected, so was a months-old rambling. Apparently she liked it. Specifically "it made her feel good" - interesting way of putting it I don't remember what I wrote. I think I was very sea-sick at the time and considering jumping ship.

Chatting was a relief. I felt like it had been ages since we chatted, but I just looked and it'd only been about two weeks. Hmm. Anyway, I told her that I wanted to keep in touch a wee bit more, if we could. She said she's sending me a letter soon. Okay, this is good.

At the end, I said "take care, love"
She said "I will. Love you"

The sudden warmth of the sun as a cloud moves.
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