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  #111  
Old 11-26-2012, 12:53 AM
Octopus Octopus is offline
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Originally Posted by fuchka View Post
But it feels like I'm choosing to take offence, in a passive-aggressive or self-sabotage-y way. It's usually over a tiny thing ....
it wasn't even that I particularly wanted to try the dessert, it was almost like I was attracted to the excuse (however small) to be jealous.
this really resonated with me. I do this too, sometimes.
why do we feel the need to sabotage ourselves?
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  #112  
Old 11-26-2012, 02:43 AM
JaneQSmythe JaneQSmythe is online now
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Ah, closets. I don't find it too claustrophobic, though. I have Narnia in mine
You made me smile today - Thank you!

It seems as though you are more bemused than bothered by the DADT policy in place in your metamour's relationship. It also seems as though Bert is probably comfortable, or becoming so, with information that he "knows" but doesn't want to verbalize yet? Maybe, if work-folks/family/etc. are more of an issue he is actually looking more for some sort of "plausible deniability" and a filter against "Too Much Information"?

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  #113  
Old 11-26-2012, 08:39 AM
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An example: yesterday at dinner, Ocean asked me if I wanted to share a particular dessert with him. I said, sure, that sounds good, and added that I was probably going to get some ice cream too if he wanted to share that. After that, he moved to the other end of the table to chat with Bert, Menrva etc. When desserts came, I noticed he'd ordered something else (not something I had wanted to try, but ok). We had a quick back & forth across the table (me: "Oh, you got that?" him: "yeah I changed my mind." me: "Ah, ok") and went back to our respective conversations. My ice cream was good and I'm not even really that into desserts, so I was satisfied with the status quo. But... Menrva and he started sharing his dessert, and were chatting between themselves... and I felt that jealous twinge. Jesus, am I really that petty? I felt it simmering inside me, and it wasn't even that I particularly wanted to try the dessert, it was almost like I was attracted to the excuse (however small) to be jealous.
Hmm. This made me think. I agree with you that the concrete thing - dessert - is probably not a big deal. Still, I can see how that situation would be one where it is totally reasonable to have some confusion/jealousy. I mean, it does come across like he first suggests something to you (his idea!) and then doesn't even bother to let you know he's decided to do it with her instead. Now I am sure this is not how he meant it, just a small communication/consideration fail. However, I don't think it would hurt for you to ask about it, might make you feel better to hear it from him.

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I reckon I'm weirdly experiencing this as an extension of their DADT arrangement onto me (and I know it's got little to do with that).
You already say you are aware of the fact that it's not connected. Just wanted to say, this kind of thing is something I would be vary of. It is easy to (emotionally) use something we don't understand as a scapegoat for something else. Do you think you could have a chat with Menrva and see if you could try to get an understanding of where the boundaries come from? Not that you still need to agree with them, but maybe seeing what is behind them would create some understanding as to why they choose to have them.
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  #114  
Old 12-21-2012, 05:17 PM
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Octopus - it's always comforting when something resonates with other people, thanks for your message I don't know where self-sabotage comes from, but in the context of relationships, one of my favourite movies: The Price of Milk. It's a NZ film, so may not be easily available in other places, but really worth tracking down if you can.

Jane - yup, you're right. I'm growing to understand things more on their terms. It's actually been beautiful to watch the reality of "DADT" unfold for them. Still no confronting conversations but Ocean's stayed over at the in-laws, Bert occasionally makes himself scarce for the two of them to have alone time. In a way they're dealing with the physical reality first, rather than discussing the conceptual things... Hey, if it works, all power to them.

rory - I hear what you're saying. Talking with Menrva about the DADT this is a great idea and one that's on my to-do list for next time we catch up the two of us. One thing I left off about my dessert story was that, five minutes after those emotions welled up for me, Ocean looked across the table and asked me if I wanted to share some of his. He had obviously taking it for granted that things were casual enough that he could be free to move around the table and change ideas re: food. Which, given our usual dynamics, made perfect sense. In fact, for me, when a partner trusts our connection enough to rely on it to feel relaxed about doing risky things (however simple) is something I really value. That gesture (of offering me the dessert) reminded me that I wasn't unvalued or forgotten but just "taken for granted" in the best sense. It broke through the blech I'd been feeling instantly.
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  #115  
Old 12-21-2012, 05:56 PM
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So I decided not to blog here until I sorted things out with Ella. I kinda have and kinda haven't. I wrote The Letter (or at least A Letter) but haven't posted it. I don't think it's saying enough yet. Ah, crud. I feel like I've got gumboots stuck in mud over this. It's effortful and I don't even know why. We're long-distance and we don't have the juice to get the engine started.

Have had some conversations with her online, including Skype a couple of times. It's been pleasant enough, but there's this thing... I guess, I really need to know how exactly it makes her feel that I don't have a sex drive as such for her. I enjoy sex with her but I don't need it, maybe? Well, touching her doesn't set me on fire. We're not that kind of flint together. We're the wrong sticks rubbing the wrong way if we plan to get the water boiled. Christ... how did I get here? The things I love about Ella are not things that I need to explore in a sexual context. Add to that, long distance, and, well, I'm left with a puddle of hmm.

The good news (maybe?) is she's here, tomorrow. Visiting family for Christmas/New Year. Grotto and I are taking her out for a picnic in the afternoon (I'm making sangria) and, yeah. We had really hot threesomes and I'm feeling like we'll end up tumbling into bed. Hopefully somewhere in all that I can get some kind of clarity with what the fuck is going on. I'd rather have no expectations on our relationship (Ella's and mine) apart from friendship/pen pals/casual sex... and probably not really the latter, cos I don't usually seek that out with anyone, and in any case, long-distance.

Rewind to the awkwardness of my last visit, Ella said "I wanna make love to you"... it was really sweet, but something didn't connect for me. I think it's the way she behaves sexually makes me feel like she has a different shape to me in that respect. I don't get it, I don't get it, waaah! Hopefully after our weekend meet-up/tryst all will be worked out. I think I need a pre-conversation about this with Grotto so he knows where I'm at. I'm in charge of the picnic. Ella said she's "looking forward to submitting to my plans". Ok, let me be honest, that turned me on. Grotto said "me too". Mm. This could be the best break-up sex ever

On the other hand, I could be a callous bitch. I'm kind of assuming Ella doesn't have her heart on a plate for me. It's hard to tell. We're... crumbs. Really. Okay, I'm circling back to where I began with this. Time to move on.

Updates:

* Bert & Menrva are away overseas for six weeks. M & Ocean missing each other a bit, but chatting and Skyping when they can. We have the keys to their apartment and it's been great to have access when we're that side of town, or have wanted time apart. Also, internet was down at our place for about a week, and I appreciated being able to use theirs. Actually have been meaning to write and thank them for that, must make sure I do that.

* Grotto's fallen, hard, for this smokin hawt chick Bijou. She really likes him too but doesn't want a serious relationship at the moment, for various reasons. G doesn't know quite how to take that and is feeling rather grazed... They're taking it as casually as possible for now.

I dig her, we've made out a few times. She's sincerely voyeuristic and I think it's only a matter of time before we see what it's like to make one warm pool with our two/three naked bodies. I'm in no rush though. Have plenty of other things I wanna do with my days and nights

* Grotto & I had a heated confrontation about a tendency of mine that was causing him a lot of hurt. It probably deserves its own post. Actually, yeah, it does. *flags for later*

* Holidays!!! Ocean and I are going camping for a week at a music festival. We leave in the evening on the 25th. Hoping to get the practicalities sorted by tomorrow lunchtime so the lead-up isn't so hectic. I have some family obeisance on Christmas day which needs to be worked around spending time with Grotto before O & I make our evening flight. Here's hoping
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  #116  
Old 12-21-2012, 06:16 PM
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fuchka fuchka is offline
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Default ... and our first +2!

One thing I forgot to mention... we had our first +2 at Grotto's work Xmas party tonight! It was pretty special, though nothing formal. Grotto had work drinks tonight while Ocean & I had planned a date for the two of us, making Mayan hot chocolates, chillin & cuddling at home.

I then get a call from Grotto after work asking what I was doing, if I wanted to join his work drinks. I said I had plans with Ocean, but we might both like to come if O would he be invited too? A smooth word to his boss and snap, a +2. Ocean was down for it, so we waltzed in soon afterwards and were introduced to everyone. Some people had no idea of the poly situation, including G's boss, which made things quite beautifully hilarious.

I know his boss, we've met a handful of times, and we have a good rapport. Apparently the conversation with him earlier had gone something like this.

Grotto: "Hey, mind if my girlfriend and her husband come over?"
His boss: "Ah, sure... Ok. I think it's probably best if I ask no more questions."

Ocean & I are friends with quite a few of Grotto's colleagues so it was super comfortable being there. The inner circle made some toasts to the company's diversity policy It took a while to get Grotto's boss to meet my eye though. First time I said hello, he slipped his gaze away as if he wasn't sure how to relate to me in this context. But Grotto and I pounced on him later, and did the whole introduction of Ocean thing, and all was well. He bought Ocean and me drinks and, yeah, it was heart-warming.

Grotto said he was really glad we both came, and that it felt good to be family the way we are.

I felt a smidgen greedy to have a +2 - it's not something I'd expect as a rule because it does make sense to limit people's dates to things like weddings, office events etc where the food/drinks are being paid for. But occasionally squeezing free booze and an outing for the three of us on the backs of a friendly boss and/or the company's diversity policy? Oh yeah.
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  #117  
Old 12-21-2012, 07:14 PM
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nycindie nycindie is offline
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Apparently the conversation with him earlier had gone something like this.

Grotto: "Hey, mind if my girlfriend and her husband come over?"
His boss: "Ah, sure... Ok. I think it's probably best if I ask no more questions."
LOL. That's priceless!
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  #118  
Old 12-21-2012, 07:35 PM
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^totally!!

It is nice to read about everything that's going on for you, fuchka.
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  #119  
Old 01-05-2013, 03:41 AM
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Default 2013 and all's well

Just before Christmas, Ella came to visit relatives in our new city. I had suggested an afternoon picnic catch up with Grotto and myself, make sangria and see where the night leads. Was too hot to head out in the end, so the three of us stayed at my place drinking and chatting. At one point, Ella and I were by ourselves outside, and she checked in with me to clarify how I was feeling re: sex with her, and whether I'd be comfortable with Grotto joining in. I said I was feeling cool about either (true at the time).

We snuggled a bit and then returned inside (Grotto hates the heat and was bathing in the air conditioning). I went to get something in the kitchen, and while I was there, Grotto and Ella started making out. It was nice to hear, and I stayed in the kitchen for a bit, just listening to them. After a while, they called out for me and I said I was okay, and would join them at some point.

In a bit, though, my emotions turned. I realised I didn't really know what was going on between Grotto and Ella... They ended their relationship fairly amicably but still I know there were some rough emotions. Last time we were in the same place, for example, Ella just wanted to be with me, not Grotto as well (they were recently broken up then). I felt like giving them space to reconnect, and... I dunno. Get out of their way.

This mood made me want to go outside to the garden. They have noisy sex so that wasn't far enough I went for a walk and accidentally locked myself out. Eventually I needed their help to get back into the house. At that point, they both were worried as to how I was feeling. I said I didn't feel drawn to join in, and that maybe it would be more fun if the two of them headed back to Grotto's place.

Ella laid down her preferences, which were (1) hang out with me and Grotto, (2) hang out just with me, or (3) go back to Grotto's place without me. Pretty much she didn't mind what we did but she wanted to spend time with me. Wow, ok. I said, we should hang out, maybe go out and do something. Grotto took a nap, while Ella and I checked online for any free things of interest happening in the city. There didn't seem to be much, but as we parried back and forth we ended up weaseling our bodies around each other and... yeah.

Fast forward eight hours later, Grotto's asleep again, Ella's snoozing in his arms, I'm making a late night dinner. Everyone's still naked of course The heat, the heat. Wake Grotto up, we all eat, then I walk Ella back to where she's staying (a 45 min walk each way). At 2amish it's really pleasant. We get a chance to talk, and I realise that she gets me! She gets that I want to just get to know her better, and that I'd sometimes rather hang out and talk rather than have sex. This had been a block for us before, and had been hard for her to understand but she doesn't just hear me... she really feels it. It was a deep relief. I love her. (Oh, and this time, while fucking she and I did something that was a first for me, a very intense experience... I was glad that it was her, and I said so.)

We didn't talk about labels (girlfriend/not)... I'm shitty at those. She did say that she didn't want to be in a romantic relationship with Grotto anymore. And how we were talking implied that she did want one with me. That's enough clarity for me.

Another day, another story. Made a threesome faux-pas with Grotto and Ocean but we just rolled with it - yay! I was in the mood to hang out with three of us, so invited Grotto around to spend the day... Didn't get around to telling Ocean my idea or plans til the morning itself. He was fine with it, though. It wouldn't have been a big problem if not, but Ocean may have felt like leaving the house if he wasn't into spending time with Grotto & me).

We watched some tv shows we'd been getting into recently, ordered pizza, had a few drinks. I was getting pretty cosy, and as frequently happens, Grotto was okay with that developing into something physical between the three of us, whereas Ocean was more reticent. Instead of fretting about it, I just went with the flow which seemed to work ok. It meant Ocean probably had to make more of an effort to put up boundaries himself, rather than me picking up on his vibes to guess what he was feeling and modulating myself to that. I like that our triad dyamics seem mature enough that we can be more relaxed and things won't break.

We've got a small apartment, but there's a sofa bed that can sleep two and Grotto crashed there. I ended up slipping from one bed to the other. In the morning I asked Ocean if Grotto could come into bed with the two of us for a cuddle. He said okay, and I passed that on to Grotto. A bit later, Grotto came in and was the big spoon, with me in the middle and Ocean on the inside. Before long, things got a bit cheeky between Grotto and me, and Ocean got out of bed and left the room. I apologised immediately but didn't get much of a response. Ah, whoops... that's when I realised Ocean wanted more sleep. He's grumpy in the morning if he is woken up before he's ready.

Later, when Ocean wasn't grumpy from the rude awakening, I had a proper conversation. Grotto had said he wasn't sure what the boundaries were, and he was just going with it. I had felt much the same way. I promised Ocean that if there's ever a next time, we'd make sure to be clear on what was or was not on the cards. "Cuddling in bed" is a bit too broad After getting agreement on that, there was no further issue. I'm so so happy to be at this point.

Meanwhile, Grotto visited our home town for Christmas/New Year and just got back late last night. I spent the night and morning with him, and about an hour after I left his place, Bijou (his new flame) was due around Bijou, Ocean, myself and a couple of other friends (Patch & Ayla) pitched in to organise to get Grotto a combined Christmas present, something he really needed. It was there as a surprise for when he got back. He was really impressed by the sneaky organisation Hehe. I love our loving.

A few more stories I want to share, but Ocean & I gotta get ready to go to a friend's wedding! It's a bit of an informal job interview for him as there will be a few people there who are on a panel to interview him for a job next month. Best get tidied up! Happy 2013 everyone
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  #120  
Old 01-05-2013, 11:48 AM
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Ah, lovely to read such happy things, and especially to hear the good news between you and Ella. Communication ftw!
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