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  #91  
Old 12-28-2009, 11:28 PM
GroundedSpirit GroundedSpirit is offline
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Default Hmmmmm

Well - this has certainly turned into an interesting and thought provoking thread. I guess we ( my wife & I) had never considered the possibility that something seeming so basic was in fact so potentially complex (understanding the term).
It seems for us - when we "identify" with poly, it simply means that we're prepared to engage in multiple meaningful, close, ethical relationships with more than ourselves. This seemed to cover the basics that we felt was explanatory enough for anyone else considering being involved with us to know and feel comfortable with what they were getting involved with. With that came of offer of some type of commitment - respect,honesty, caring for their desires & opinions, things like that. Including responsible sex practices and the offer of everyone in the circle getting to know each other for all of those that had a mutual desire for that.
This seemed an obvious enough distinction compared to random anonymous sex, not sharing that fact, creating potential for drama etc.
But like others have mentioned here, if the deeper details mattered to anyone we are completely prepared to go into the most intimate details or hypothesis of how different scenarios might play out.
Because we have no access to any local poly groups, this turned out to be an enlightening thread because of all the variety of opinions !
For example, when we used to circulate some in what most would call the "swingers circle", whenever we met someone our opening introduction always went something like "we're not really "swingers" but prefer some deeper level of connection and relationship but not to include setting anyone else's boundaries beyond honesty & respect" - i.e. no strings required. We never seemed to confuse anyone with that approach and it served well to scare away any who were not comfortable with that but preferred a "sex only" type relationship.
So all this confusion has been interesting..........

But I agree with something someone posted in this thread and that I had mentioned in some other one - the biggest complexity really comes from any single agreed upon term of what "love" even means. Because it has many aspects, you would expect a term including it to have an equal amount.

Good stuff............

GS
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  #92  
Old 12-28-2009, 11:35 PM
dakid dakid is offline
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well i couldn't agree with you more groundedspirit, seems to me you are really living up to your name with that post - hope you don't mind me saying.

i also feel that when i ""identify" with poly, it simply means that i and my partner(s) are prepared to engage in multiple meaningful, close, ethical relationships with more than ourselves".

seems i just have different definitions of what meaningful, close and ethical mean compared to some folks here. and like you say (and thank you for putting it so well!) :

"the biggest complexity really comes from any single agreed upon term of what "love" even means. Because it has many aspects, you would expect a term including it to have an equal amount."
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  #93  
Old 12-29-2009, 12:56 AM
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crisare crisare is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dakid View Post
i would hope that they knew me better than that, and that they had more respect for my choices than to make such insulting and idiotic assumptions.
to me this says more about your friendship than about any word or definition of word.
Well, I'm not sure I agree about that. I know any number of really smart people who sometimes make bad decisions about things when they're emotionally driven. And when someone has heard only vague and possibly sketchy information about something it's possible for them to think in a well meaning kind of way that someone they care about has been mislead or is making a poor decision out of emotion.

I don't think it means your friends (or mine, in this case) are idiots, or that it reflects badly on their friendship. I think it means that they care - even if it is misguided.
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  #94  
Old 12-29-2009, 03:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GroundedSpirit View Post
It seems for us - when we "identify" with poly, it simply means that we're prepared to engage in multiple meaningful, close, ethical relationships with more than ourselves. This seemed to cover the basics that we felt was explanatory enough for anyone else considering being involved with us to know and feel comfortable with what they were getting involved with. With that came of offer of some type of commitment - respect,honesty, caring for their desires & opinions, things like that. Including responsible sex practices and the offer of everyone in the circle getting to know each other for all of those that had a mutual desire for that.

But I agree with something someone posted in this thread and that I had mentioned in some other one - the biggest complexity really comes from any single agreed upon term of what "love" even means. Because it has many aspects, you would expect a term including it to have an equal amount.

Good stuff............
I agree. This was beautifully stated.

At the risk of repeating, I find it more than worthwhile to find others who are on the same wavelength on what polyamory is. The same for other important values.

If there is confusion, in depth discussion dispels it even while getting to know others. It is an excellent way to discern friends and potential loves. I don't understand the aversion of some to this sort of communication or the need for a hard and fast meaning for polyamory. I don't find this form of communication difficult and it has been beneficial in my relationships with others over the years.

As love encompasses so much so does polyamory for me.

~Raven~
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  #95  
Old 12-29-2009, 07:57 AM
HappiestManAlive HappiestManAlive is offline
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Just throwing this in:

Meat:

–noun
1. the flesh of animals as used for food.
2. the edible part of anything, as a fruit or nut: Crack the walnuts and remove the meats.
3. the essential point or part of an argument, literary work, etc.; gist; crux: The meat of the play is the jealousy between the two brothers.
4. solid food: meat and drink.
5. solid or substantial content; pith: The article was full of meat, with few wasted words.
6. a favorite occupation, activity, etc.: Chess is his meat.
7. Chiefly South Midland and Southern U.S. pork, esp. bacon.
8. Slang: Vulgar. penis.
9. Archaic. the principal meal: to say grace before meat.

...and that's leaving out the idioms and other such. So technically, a vegetarion can't eat anything that contains an outer skin and an inner portion referred to as meaat? Or engage in felatio? How far does this go? Can they read anything more than a review? Or have a hobby?
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  #96  
Old 12-29-2009, 04:22 PM
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I absolutely love that, HappiestMan. It's just a matter of putting it in perspective.

~Raven~
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~Open up your mind and let me step inside.
Rest your weary head and let your heart decide. It's so easy.
When you know the rules.
It's so easy. All you have to do is fall in love.
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  #97  
Old 12-30-2009, 11:07 AM
dakid dakid is offline
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yes it made me giggle too.

what i am really curious about though is whether anyone's mind has been changed or broadened by this debate?

are we actually learning from each other here or just figuring out who agrees with us and who doesn't - keeping to our previously held point(s) of view?

x
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  #98  
Old 12-30-2009, 11:54 AM
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LovingRadiance LovingRadiance is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CielDuMatin View Post
So you either have to live with that, or you have to try to make everyone happy, in which case poly basically turns out to mean whatever it is that each person wants it to mean, and is therefore meaningless as a term you can use in any form of effective communication.

It's already got the the point where the term means you need to ask more questions to clarify what the person means by it.

I hope that some day we do come up with a true definition of what poly is and what it isn't. Some will be upset by it, and then will have to find another term to describe what they self-identify. For all I care, it can be one that *I* don't agree with - just pick one so that we can stop discussing it endlessly and providing a platform for everyone with an agenda to co-opt the word for their own purposes.
I so totally concur here.
I also agree with Mono's point.

It's come to the point (quite quickly in my case) that I see no point in identifying myself as "polyamorous" because the term has no meaning and is therefore USELESS as a identifier.
I don't much care anymore WHAT the definition is-but it would be nice to know so I could figure out if it fits me or not.

At least I know that "gay" and "straight" and "man" do not fit me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by redpepper View Post
Why we feel we must keep defining I have no idea. Maybe because we all want to feel comfortable?
For me it's not to feel comfortable. I am comfortable with myself. Especially so after reading the book Living Happily Ever After (finished today).

But when I talk to other people, I don't enjoy having to spend 30 minutes explaining the dynamic of my family and sex life so that they can grasp why I have two men with me at a doctors appt. (for example)

If I could say "These are my SO's, we're a multi-partner family" or whatever, that would allow me to go on with the conversation more smoothly and skip the 30 minutes of history in order to ensure clear communication between myself and them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CielDuMatin View Post
What's wrong with "non-monogamous" as the umbrella term? Under that come the cheaters and "responsible non-monogamy". Under THAT comes polyamory and swinging. Those are just some examples.

It's our loss, I think, if the word ends up meaning nothing.
I don't understand AT ALL why we need the word Polyamory if it's definition is the same as non-monogomy which everyone seems to agree on already...

And I agree it is our loss-I am fairly certain that as a general rule-that monogomous circles couldn't care less which word is used and as Mono has pointed out on any number of threads-if we as a group want them to accept us, we first have to make it possible for them to know who/what we are. With understanding and knowledge come acceptance. Without understanding and knowledge comes fear, and with fear judgment and condemnation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dakid View Post
yes it made me giggle too.

what i am really curious about though is whether anyone's mind has been changed or broadened by this debate?

are we actually learning from each other here or just figuring out who agrees with us and who doesn't - keeping to our previously held point(s) of view?

x
Hmmm, very good question.

I guess for me, my thoughts had already started, but this thread just really confirmed my 'feeling' on the matter.

Small history-I was raised Christian and about a year ago-after 2 years of really in depth study and conversation in a group of Christians, Athiests and Agnostics with a few single representations from other religious sects:
I concluded that I no longer wish to identify as Christian.
Because the MAJORITY of people have a definition of that term, that simply does NOT describe me or my beliefs.

Likewise-it would appear to me that it is purposeless and...almost lying to identify myself as "polyamorous" because the majority of people I'm encountering have no clue what that word means and when they research it-they are HIGHLY likely to come up with a definition that simply doesn't identify me.

AND

because the word itself is so... undefined as to be a wasted effort to use. There is already an "umbrella" term that defines that I am not in a monogomous relationship. I can use that term with technical identifiers and have it be less confusing and less damaging to the true understanding I'm trying to give someone then using polyamory does.
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Last edited by NeonKaos; 12-30-2009 at 03:10 PM. Reason: merge posts
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  #99  
Old 12-30-2009, 02:31 PM
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CielDuMatin CielDuMatin is offline
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Non-monogamy also describes cheating and swinging as well as poly. If you want to use a blanket term that people will think that you are practicing any one of those, then that's fine. But if you want something that is a little more specific, then you need a more specific term.

Responsible non-monogamy, a term I have heard, encompasses swinging and what I know of as polyamory, so that can help clarify.

There are those that don't want anyone to draw the line between swinging and polyamory, there are those that would like to. There is no inherant value judgment there, just a desire to have a descriptive term for this relationship model.
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  #100  
Old 12-30-2009, 04:06 PM
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Labels and terms - EGAD...one of my least favorite subjects but heck I keep poking my nose in.

So how do I identify my relationship to someone that is 'normal' ya know from the monogamous and/or cheater world? I say "We have a unique relationship." then if they want more information I carry on with the identfying verbage and what it means to ME.

Now for Slutdom and Ethical Slut(the book) ... even after reading the book, which I still can't finish I personally dislike the word. Even with the pride that has been associated with it, such as I can identify with 'bitch' in a positive way, I just can't conceptually associated with 'slut'. No matter how proud others choosing to use those titles are, it's not for ME.

So I keep my mind open when others use the volcabulary they choose and continue to listen to the content of the conversation and ask questions for clarification.
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