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  #41  
Old 12-31-2009, 07:10 PM
Ceoli Ceoli is offline
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You know, I hate to be harsh about this, but honestly, if you're feeling so threatened by the ideas and opinions of other people, then perhaps you should seek your community in places other than online forums.

I don't know why, but this forum seems to have grown a culture of defensiveness within it. When one person posts thoughts about what they consider a good and healthy way to be poly, other people start defending themselves against that because it's not the way they do poly so clearly that poster must not be respecting their poly and saying that their way is bad. All of a sudden, anybody who posts something that is in disagreement with others is somehow subverting other people and creating an "unwelcoming atmosphere". It seems that opinions becoming perceived as agendas when people start feeling some kind of subversion or threat from them.

Honestly, an online forum really ceases to work if people are continually asked to suppress their opinions or thoughts for the sake of preserving the "safety" of other people. We simply don't have enough context in the space of words on a web page to fully build spaces that are safe. I make no bones about the fact that I have opinions and I will share them freely. I will especially share opinions and thoughts that challenge inaccurate assumptions. There are a lot of people who describe things that are not my reality and that's fine. I'll only challenge it when those descriptions start making assumptions about my or other people's realities. And I'm happy to be just as challenged by others. And when I'm offended by something someone says on this board, I challenge the idea, not the person. And I appreciate having the space to do so. Inclusiveness isn't built by trying to set controls on how people communicate, it's built by allowing communication to be authentic.

But the thing is, if you don't want to deal with those kinds of challenges, that's fine. Disengage and find something that works better for you.

Last edited by Ceoli; 12-31-2009 at 07:13 PM.
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  #42  
Old 12-31-2009, 07:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redpepper
it's getting to the point where there are too many agendas out there and the way some are representing the poly community, or trying to shape it, makes me less and less able to consider myself a part of it.
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please make room in that boat for me.
me too! !
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  #43  
Old 12-31-2009, 07:43 PM
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CielDuMatin CielDuMatin is offline
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Originally Posted by Ceoli View Post
You know, I hate to be harsh about this, but honestly, if you're feeling so threatened by the ideas and opinions of other people, then perhaps you should seek your community in places other than online forums.
OK, so what you are saying is that if this particular style of community doesn't suit you, then it's best for you to move on and find a different one, and not complain about the one you have left? I find that interesting.

I'm not threatened by the ideas of other people (and not sure if you were referring specifically to me in your post, since you didn't make it clear) - I just get ticked off when people couch their own opinions in global terms of what is "healthy" and what is not, as if they have some moral superiority to suggest what is best for other people.

Either we are trying to build an all-inclusive community here or we are not. If we are, then I think we need to have a little more mutual respect for other people's opinions, and avoid couching things in terms of judgmental absolutes, or passing judgment on other's ideas of poly. If we are not going for all-inclusive, then let's stop pretending that we are, and also stop criticizing others for trying to define it. We can't have it both ways.

Luckily, I think that there are enough diverse people around here that there can be a good, respectful exchange of differing views. Each person has a right to their opinion, and should be treated with respect for that. Isn't that a society that we would like? Mutual respect for differing views, whether monogamous, poly, gay, straight, bi, or superintelligent shades of the colour blue?

This thread is about poly standards and practice differences. My post, therefore, was more about my self-identifying as polyamorous and what that means to me, not a comment about this forum.
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  #44  
Old 12-31-2009, 08:10 PM
Ceoli Ceoli is offline
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OK, so what you are saying is that if this particular style of community doesn't suit you, then it's best for you to move on and find a different one, and not complain about the one you have left? I find that interesting.
Actually no. I'm saying that if you find a community style that doesn't suite you, expecting everyone to change so that it does suit you isn't going to be very useful. If that's the case, it would be more useful to move on and find a community in which you don't feel so much of a need for others to change. However, if you choose to engage and challenge those ideas, I'd be all for that. I do that all the time.

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I'm not threatened by the ideas of other people (and not sure if you were referring specifically to me in your post, since you didn't make it clear) - I just get ticked off when people couch their own opinions in global terms of what is "healthy" and what is not, as if they have some moral superiority to suggest what is best for other people.
I'd love to see an example of what you're talking about here.

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Either we are trying to build an all-inclusive community here or we are not. If we are, then I think we need to have a little more mutual respect for other people's opinions, and avoid couching things in terms of judgmental absolutes, or passing judgment on other's ideas of poly. If we are not going for all-inclusive, then let's stop pretending that we are, and also stop criticizing others for trying to define it. We can't have it both ways.
Mutual respect is an interesting term to use. Many people even have different definitions of what is respectful. Respectful communication in Alabama looks very different than respectful communication in New York City. What exactly is passing judgement and how have you been judged here?

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Luckily, I think that there are enough diverse people around here that there can be a good, respectful exchange of differing views. Each person has a right to their opinion, and should be treated with respect for that. Isn't that a society that we would like? Mutual respect for differing views, whether monogamous, poly, gay, straight, bi, or superintelligent shades of the colour blue?
I'm all for a respectful exchange of views. I find it interesting that if my views are very different, often times I very suddenly get called out for being disrespectful. There doesn't seem to be mutual respect in that dynamic. Mutual respect does not absolve people of taking responsibility for their own reactions and triggers.

Quote:
This thread is about poly standards and practice differences. My post, therefore, was more about my self-identifying as polyamorous and what that means to me, not a comment about this forum.
If that's the case, great. But in that post, I saw a lot of energy devoted to the problems caused for you by other people, whether they're on this forum or not. I'm merely saying that it is just as disrespectful to expect other people to withhold their opinions because you don't like them as it is for other people to expect you to change to suit them. But being opinionated is not the same as expecting someone to change to suit them.

Last edited by Ceoli; 12-31-2009 at 08:14 PM.
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  #45  
Old 12-31-2009, 08:19 PM
NeonKaos NeonKaos is offline
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Originally Posted by CielDuMatin View Post
I just get ticked off when people couch their own opinions in global terms of what is "healthy" and what is not, as if they have some moral superiority to suggest what is best for other people.
I'm curious about why you think that suggesting what is healthy or best for someone else automatically implies that the person doing the suggesting feels "morally superior"? Even if they do "feel" morally superior, that is not the same as advocating that the suggestee should be destroyed or forced to comply with their ideal. I guess I fail to realize why some people feel threatened by "being judged" if they are secure in their position and values to begin with.
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  #46  
Old 12-31-2009, 08:30 PM
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I feel a bit bullied on this forum of late for sure. I feel that I need to watch every word I say and prepare to do battle. Yes, I do feel threatened. I do feel I need to suppress my opinions and thoughts. I quite often feel tag team bullied by "friends" on here as if they are PMing behind my back to figure out ways to discredit what I say and to show me and others up. Then I feel as if there are some virtual "high fives" going on when their is success in that.

I'm all for discussion. I'm all for hearing what people have to say, but if that opinion comes from a place of "all knowing" then that threatens me, then I feel bullied...

This works two ways. It seems people tend to threaten and then that person threatens in return...

I'm trying hard not to do that, so I just avoid and ignore most of the time. I don't know what others do, but to me that is my coping mechanism.....

Perhaps looking at our own words and what we say would help. I find it interesting that people slam others with the very words/theories they say are a threatening to them. Who has created the defensiveness, who is trying to control, who is creating that suppression of our thoughts and opinions? If we are all feeling like that, should we not ALL be checking our words?
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  #47  
Old 12-31-2009, 08:40 PM
Ceoli Ceoli is offline
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Well to be honest, I've felt bullied plenty of times here. I've felt like people are ok with me as long as I say what they want and how they want it said. As soon as I speak a truth for me that's challenging to someone else's truth, all of a sudden coming from some "all knowing place" or I'm slamming someone or being disrespectful, not compassionate and somehow don't really "feel" things. Yet other people speak truths that slam on my truths all the time here. Instead of being bullied by that, I challenge the ideas that slam me. Some people see that as attacking the people. I don't. And when I don't step down from such challenges, somehow I'm creating conflict. I choose not to edit myself because for me that would be dishonest communication.

I choose not to step down from such challenges and remain true to my ideals of honest, authentic, open and respectful communication.

Last edited by Ceoli; 12-31-2009 at 08:43 PM.
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  #48  
Old 12-31-2009, 08:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Ceoli View Post
I choose not to step down from such challenges and remain true to my ideals of honest, authentic, open and respectful communication.
Not everyone wants to be challenged though, and there is no need to step down from what you believe. No one is asking you to, at least I am not. Often I have the same beliefs as those that I feel threatened by...I do find however communication on here to be honest, authentic, and open.... it's the respectful part that is sometimes lacking for me.

I'm not saying I am always respectful either, just that if we are to get anywhere, I believe that everyone needs to check their respect and come from a place of loving and caring about people in the poly community rather than bringing up their agenda to change others to their way of thinking. Change comes about in me when I feel respected and safe, not when I feel challenged. I just shut down.

We all have shit we work on, to be told you have shit to work on, you better work on it, is disrespectful. If I have an opinion that the sky is gray (which it is here quite a bit) and someone says I disagree the sky is blue, then that sounds challenging to me... they don't know where I live, what goes on for me and where I am at on my path... if they were to say, "I feel for you that all you see is a gray sky, I see a blue one and this is why." That comes from a place of respect for me and where I am at.
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  #49  
Old 12-31-2009, 08:57 PM
JonnyAce JonnyAce is offline
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Originally Posted by Ceoli View Post
creating conflict. I choose not to edit myself because for me that would be dishonest communication.
for a moment of levity, this amused me b'c you edited this post.

(please take this in the joking manner for which it was intended )
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  #50  
Old 12-31-2009, 08:58 PM
Ceoli Ceoli is offline
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for a moment of levity, this amused me b'c you edited this post.

(please take this in the joking manner for which it was intended )
HA! Very true!
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