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  #41  
Old 11-27-2011, 05:35 PM
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ohhhhh, really?
oh really what?
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  #42  
Old 11-27-2011, 05:44 PM
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I understand that things are working okay now, but I am a bit nervous here. I would love to hear from your husband on this. Maybe I am wrong, but I kinda get this feeling that hubby is agreeing to boundaries that he struggles to keep and wishes were different for some reason.

I know he can talk for himself and is on his own journey with this, but I wonder how much he doesn't want to rock the boat because he thinks you might not allow him to have sex with your girlfriend alone sometime down the road. I respect that he might be going at your pace here ChloeJane, but is that what is going on or is he in denial about what he really wants. I just get the feeling that he just sucked up his feelings, thoughts and desires to keep you happy. Maybe he thinks he will be denied all of the sex he is having if he expresses how he really feels. Men sometimes do that when it comes to sex. Hell women to. We all do sometimes when we are getting some of our needs met. It sometimes seems worth it to shelve some stuff in order to get just one need met. I don't think this is healthy in the long run. Even if it is shelved with the knowledge that it will be addressed later that is better than ignoring it I think.

Is it not possible to go off in twos sometimes and then come together in threes? When was the last time you and he connected alone sexually. This is also important to the stability and foundation of your connection with him too no? Are you interested in sex with her alone? I realize this is all new, but eventually I am wondering if this will all bust apart if the move to something more stable doesn't occur.... or is that something that you are considering but just later?
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  #43  
Old 11-27-2011, 09:20 PM
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I understand that things are working okay now, but I am a bit nervous here. I would love to hear from your husband on this. Maybe I am wrong, but I kinda get this feeling that hubby is agreeing to boundaries that he struggles to keep and wishes were different for some reason.

I know he can talk for himself and is on his own journey with this, but I wonder how much he doesn't want to rock the boat because he thinks you might not allow him to have sex with your girlfriend alone sometime down the road. I respect that he might be going at your pace here ChloeJane, but is that what is going on or is he in denial about what he really wants. I just get the feeling that he just sucked up his feelings, thoughts and desires to keep you happy. Maybe he thinks he will be denied all of the sex he is having if he expresses how he really feels. Men sometimes do that when it comes to sex. Hell women to. We all do sometimes when we are getting some of our needs met. It sometimes seems worth it to shelve some stuff in order to get just one need met. I don't think this is healthy in the long run. Even if it is shelved with the knowledge that it will be addressed later that is better than ignoring it I think.

Is it not possible to go off in twos sometimes and then come together in threes? When was the last time you and he connected alone sexually. This is also important to the stability and foundation of your connection with him too no? Are you interested in sex with her alone? I realize this is all new, but eventually I am wondering if this will all bust apart if the move to something more stable doesn't occur.... or is that something that you are considering but just later?
RedPepper, I wonder at your worrying, as you are one of the big advocates for going at the pace of the slowest person. I don't see that is any different for a triad, and lets say ChloeJane is the slow one here (I have no idea how the girlfriend feels, CJ hasn't said anything about her husband or gf saying that they wanted something different), it has only been a month and a half, I don't know why she needs to be changing anything at all right now.

This doesn't seem to be set up like a regular triad where the girlfriend is asking for equal status, or anybody is currently asking for equal OR one on one relationships. If anybody is wanting that, I think that's a discussion for them, but not one for outside influences to force on them because it's wrong for them to have whatever dynamic they want. I think it's up to them to be figuring out how the relationship will grow or change.

Also if CJ is chasing her husband because of all those things you listed above that he might be feeling...well that isn't living in trust at all, it's living in fear. That's worrying your partner isn't mature or aware enough to come to you with their wants or needs. I have been in the position to pursue my husband, digging and questioning for information like this, and its not fun, and it's not healthy. If her husband is dealing with all that crap, her having to coax it out of him isn't going to solve anything.

I don't think 6 weeks in to ANY relationship has everything settled yet, not sure why they cant just be happy where they are at if everybody is enjoying themselves.
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Old 11-28-2011, 02:01 AM
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Anne: I am blonde, so you can imagine me sound like a TOTAL blonde when I say "To-tall-y!" A month and a half is too soon to be tearing apart our agreements, and pushing to talk about something that no one has expressed any desire to pursue seems like a strange move.

Red Pepper: The on on one sex in the bed that was happening was largely because there was SO much sexual energy being exchanged that it was just looking for the nearest, most willing conduit. I can totally understand that, but it still didn't make it okay. That said, because we are so big into communication, we have broached this subject of the possibility of one-on-one sex over the past couple of days, and my husband has told me flat out that he is not interested in pursuing an independent sexual relationship with S. I am also not interested in that. S is also not interested in that. We are very much about co-creating a three-way sexual relationship, which is swifly becoming a three-way love relationship as well. Should this change, I absolutely expect the adults involved to be able to speak up with their desires, and don't believe that any of us are creating an atmosphere of non-communication for each other.

In response to your earlier post, I did think that it was a distinct possibility that you were trying to be funny, but as there was quite a strong response to our agreements from a lot of people, I might have been feeling a *wee* bit judged We're obviously a bunch of free-thinking, opinionated, self-aware people, or else we wouldn't be participating in polyamory in the first place, right, so I'm all about hugging it out with you on this one
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  #45  
Old 11-28-2011, 12:25 PM
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Hi ChloeJane, welcome to the board.

I appreciate your thorough responses so far, to the feedback you have received.

I want to understand more about the BDSM context here. I think that is one of the keys to the mistakes being made. It seems to me you are the Domme in this situation, with 2 subs, your husband and your gf. You're calling the shots, limiting their sexual contact, as well as your h's desire to talk to the gf outside of when you are all 3 together. You are allowing and encouraging your h, as your sub, to Top the gf in this situation, for your own bisexual pleasure, and that is a strict boundary so far. He may Top her, but he may not break your rules.

As others have said, more vanilla triads don't work this way successfully in the long run. To me, you come across as a bit patronizing to your h. You have said, a couple times, "I am proud of him," all his work on his psyche. I know in a D/s relationship, the Dom/me often has a somewhat parental attitude towards the sub. (But Doms are not perfect, and even though they may take the role of that during actual playtime, they need to be cognizant of that fact when the sexual frenzy is over.)

Even in a D/s situation, the 2 subs need to work out their own relationship. Just because you are Domme, does not mean they do not have a one on one relationship to work out between them. Two loving subs "conspiring," outside of the dungeon, to please their Miss can bring you more pleasure, not less, honey.

His tendency to break boundaries and do whatever he feels like despite the "rules," seems to be a source of your pride in him and at the same time, a source of worry, now, in an intense sexual relationship that is (unexpectedy) turning out to be an emotional one. (If you are experienced in poly, why should this have blindsided you so much?)

As far as him getting aroused for the gf despite a long sex/kink session that YOU thought should have been enough for him and her, it took you off guard. It's like you are saying, "*I* am satisfied, so they should be too! Wah!" However, your h was definitely NOT satisfied and got hard and tried to fuck her. Once again, you 2 are individuals, not a single unit, so if you agree to that in any way, why not honor it? If not now, soon.

However, if the dynamic is one where you are in control (and that is supposed to be part of the fun), you could "child-proof" the situation to prevent this happening in the future, if mere words and agreements just made to be broken are not enough. For example, if you simply slept in between them, he'd have to crawl over you to fuck the gf. Or one of them could sleep on the floor on your side of the bed. If even that is not enough, gf could sleep in a cage (literally); a large dog kennel is often used for slaves sleeping quarters. You could lock it and wear the key around your neck. (If even that is not enough (he sticks his dick in between the bars for a bj), she can sleep in another room until he fully submits to his role and behaves himself.

It's like you're saying, "Child, I've given you a toy this Xmas morning, but you may only play with it when I am awake/watching/playing with it with you, and if you don't do that, I will take the toy away and give it to the poor children," ....or something. He obviously wants to play with his toy in a different way than you do. He wants a chance to see how the toy reacts to just his playstyle, without your input. Personally, I don't blame him, but again, in a D/s context, if he agrees you are calling the shots, for his own good, fine, that's your agreement. However, if he's been abused in the past, your Dominance might be triggering for him, and he's reacting according to an old script. If you are in control, it is up to you to do everything you can to prevent this.
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  #46  
Old 11-28-2011, 05:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Magdlyn View Post
As far as him getting aroused for the gf despite a long sex/kink session that YOU thought should have been enough for him and her, it took you off guard. It's like you are saying, "*I* am satisfied, so they should be too! Wah!" However, your h was definitely NOT satisfied and got hard and tried to fuck her. Once again, you 2 are individuals, not a single unit, so if you agree to that in any way, why not honor it? If not now, soon.
I have imagined from what I've read that there is a kink factor but not necessarily a D/s factor with her or her husband as the overall D (and I could be way off) but the my response to this is that it's not she says "I am satisfied so they should be too" but that she thought she and her husband had a clear specified agreement to not have sex without all three of them awake and involved.

It sounds like the agreement may have not been as clear as she thought, so they rediscussed it and clarified it. I think you have lots of good insight and advice if she is the Domme, but I think if she isn't and this is just a case of regular old vanilla agreements that it's OK to take time and work things out with her partners without being pushed to change the dynamic before anybody is asking for it or ready for it.
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Old 11-28-2011, 06:38 PM
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I found myself thinking about this situation some more today. It's funny how one person's very specific, personal story can end up being a sort of stand-in for everyone's thoughts on an issue or a range of issues. This situation definitely pings some of my own issues/questions/feelings about my relationship with my gf and her husband. Before I go on, note that at this point I am not trying to say anything whatsoever about whether your husband acted appropriately or whether it's incumbent upon any of you (or even advisable) to change your boundaries at this point, I think I've covered my thoughts on that thoroughly.

One thing that I find a little confusing is that your husband is saying he's not interested in one-on-one sex with the gf. If not, then why did he choose (whether he was consciously "choosing" or just acting) that particular boundary to push multiple times? Maybe he doesn't feel like it's something he at all needs right now, but to say he doesn't want it seems to contradict his actions. Then again, I suppose people sometimes do things, like lie, that don't represent what they really want to be doing per se, and are instead just manifestations of something else that's going on.

But if he (and you for that matter) have an emotional, growing relationship with her, why *wouldn't* you want at least the potential for one-on-one sex? I find that threesome sex is very intense and definitely creates intimacy, but that couple sex holds (for me, at least) a different, perhaps more concretely bonding, sort of intimacy. It's hard for me not to see an agreement that says "no couple sex" as not being about preventing that sort of bonding. Otherwise, if it's truly just that nobody feels like it right now, why have an agreement about it at all? After all, if nobody wanted bdsm, you wouldn't articulate an agreement that says "no bdsm", most likely. I get that it's about trust issues with the hubs more than anything else, and I think that's definitely valid, just pondering.

Also, I don't think everything has to be perfectly balanced by any means, especially not at this stage -- after all, you and your husband have a long-standing primary partnership and you're just getting to know this girl -- but I do see a question of balance here that I find intriguing. If you're building a threeway sexual and love relationship but you and the husband can have couple sex (I certainly assume this is the case) but neither of you can with the gf, that puts her in a very different role, one that I find to be very intense but less personal, less partner-y.

It's not just about sex, of course, it's about alone time generally. I imagine there are things you've shared with your husband when it's been just the two of you that you might not have wanted to open up about under any other circumstances, and vice versa. I've shared some very personal things while with my gf and her husband, but there are other things, little personal revelations that I couldn't even have predicted, that only came out when I was alone with her. I truly believe that humans just act differently in dyad situations in ways that are both revealing and, again, bonding. I think this is why I see this particular agreement as fine for starting out, but as problematic if it should stay in place and try to co-exist with the goal of one or more serious love relationships.
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  #48  
Old 11-28-2011, 06:44 PM
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Also, let me just say, Mags, girlfriend in a cage idea? So. Hot. Sorry, sorry, don't mean to threadjack...
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  #49  
Old 11-28-2011, 10:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Anneintherain View Post
I have imagined from what I've read that there is a kink factor but not necessarily a D/s factor with her or her husband as the overall D (and I could be way off)...
CJ said the gf is a "sub thru and thru," that she, CJ, is "driving the bus" in this, making her the "domme," and has compared her h to a "spoiled child with his hand in the cookie jar." She is also into both of them "spoiling" the gf, who is "boundary-less," as if she is a pet or child.

Quote:
It sounds like the agreement may have not been as clear as she thought, so they rediscussed it and clarified it. I think you have lots of good insight and advice if she is the Domme, but I think if she isn't and this is just a case of regular old vanilla agreements that it's OK to take time and work things out with her partners without being pushed to change the dynamic before anybody is asking for it or ready for it.
I think my reading comprehension is pretty good, Annie.
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  #50  
Old 11-28-2011, 10:09 PM
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Magdlyn
I can be a sub through and through with a partner, but that doesn't mean that they will be topping me in anyway other than sexually, and I haven't experienced it outside of the bedroom. So I didn't automatically assume that sexually submissive means relationally submissive from what ChloeJane said.

I know some relationships have both, but as some don't, I didn't take it as a given as she didn't specify.
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Last edited by Anneintherain; 11-28-2011 at 10:13 PM.
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