Polyamory.com Forum  

Go Back   Polyamory.com Forum > Polyamory > General Poly Discussions

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #41  
Old 04-09-2014, 01:50 PM
vanquish vanquish is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Montgomery, AL
Posts: 288
Default

It also shouldn't be discounted that human beings are arbitrary. We've all made decisions based on a feeling or an affinity. Maybe it's a subconscious thing or an emotional thing rather than a rational reason. I can appreciate that surely there HAS to be a causal factor to narrow down the choice as SC said, but that doesn't mean it can or will be known. Which is why I think concluding his motivation was tokenism, especially based on imperfect communication over a forum board, is spurious at best.

Also, if someone seems to be using a term in a way that makes their entire comment offensive to you (e.g. like "unicorn"), consider first that they are misusing the term. People use words to fit their own understanding all the time
__________________
Me - male, 42, poly, straight, in a serious relationship with Audrey, also casually dating.

Audrey - female, 20, poly, pansexual, also casually dating.

Last edited by vanquish; 04-09-2014 at 01:57 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 04-10-2014, 12:31 AM
RedPanda's Avatar
RedPanda RedPanda is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 47
Default

I have a question which should offer a counterpoint; would it be equally despicable if someone said they preferred to date someone who is completely physically one gender or the other?

Pardon if this was already discussed.

I've never had this sort of confrontation because most trans people I meet are simply not physically or emotionally attractive me. However, if I met the right person I can't imagine myself having a problem regardless what genitals they do or don't have.

Anyways, to the person who singled out trans people; just be aware that when you are looking for a quality that is often fetishized you will run into these sorts of problems, even if you have prior experience and are completely an ally/supporter/serious of trans people and their issues. A few words on the internet won't necessarily be enough to reveal if you're simply looking to sate a fantasy or looking to emulate a type of connection that you've had before.
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 04-10-2014, 06:37 AM
SchrodingersCat's Avatar
SchrodingersCat SchrodingersCat is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Saskatchewan
Posts: 2,130
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonberry View Post
But it seems to me you're saying that if you're with a trans person, it should be not because they're trans, but in spite of it.
That's exactly what I'm saying.

Trans people just want to be accepted as their chosen gender. A trans woman wants you to see her on the street and think "wow, that chick has really awesome shoes. I wonder where she got them?" And not "wow, that trans lady looks really convincing. I wonder if she's had surgery."

Quote:
Or do you think having absolutely no preference towards your partner's genitals, the thing you're having the actual sex with, is a common thing?
Trans people generally find partners who are bi or pan, i.e. people who are far less likely to care what kind of genitalia they have. It's rare for homosexuals and heterosexuals to remain attracted to someone when they realize they're trans. It often leads to shock and even violence, which really sucks.

Bisexuality / pansexuality are pretty common, and getting more so as each Gen Y'er hits puberty.

Quote:
I guess I'll never understand it, and it's not fair to expect you to keep explaining it when I'm just not getting it.
I'll start with a small digression. In our bi/pan-group, we've been discussing the term "bisexual." A lot of bi people choose not to use that term because they feel it emphasizes sex when what they really care about is relationships. Some people have started using the term "biromantic" to indicate that they're interested in forming long term, loving relationships with either gender. Others just say "bi" because it encompasses both sexuality and romance.

The rest of this isn't as binary as I'm going to make it, but it should convey the basic idea.

For simplicity, I'll stick to "straight." "Gay" is the same but replace "opposite" with "same." There are two kinds of attraction: romantic and sexual. I'll use the terms heteroromantic and heterosexual to distinguish. So heteroromantic means you only fall in love with people of the opposite gender as you. Heterosexual means you only are sexually attracted to people of the opposite sex as you.

If you have a penis, heterosexual means you only want to put your penis in vaginas. You may or may not care if that vagina is attached to the body of someone who identifies as male.

If you're a man, heteroromantic means you only have relationships with people who identify as female.

Now, for most people, these orientations line up. When they don't, it tends to be that one or the other is not hetero/homo, but rather bi. I've never heard of someone who only falls in love with women and only enjoys sex with penises. I'm not saying it's not possible, but I've never heard of it. But supposing that such a person did exist, that would be an "orienation" and not a "fetish."

Gender and gender identity is central to how people see themselves. It's the first thing anybody notices about you, and it affects how you're treated more than any other factor. Everybody has a gender, or a specific lack of gender (genderqueer or gender neutral, for example). It's the main box that everyone gets slotted into. So that, unlike being fat or being crippled, is what makes it different from other fetishes. And for all its ubiquity, it's one of the least understood things out there. "Why can't you just be a woman? You were born with a vagina, that makes you a woman. Why can't you just accept that? If God wanted you to be a man, he would have given you a penis." No one says "why can't you just, you know, not be handicapped?"

In this thread, we've been using the word "fetish" as a shorthand for "sexual fetish." Fetishes aren't about relationships. That's not saying that people with a certain fetish can't seek relationships with other who share that fetish or its complement, indeed they usually do. But the fetish is not "the relationship."

ALSO, because all that wasn't complicated enough... most trans people feel a lot of anxiety and dysmorphia about their genitalia. Because they're the "wrong ones" and they don't "fit right," they often feel repulsion towards them. Like, imagine waking up one day with crab claws instead of hands. It's kinda like that. Crab claws are perfectly great and useful... if you're a crab. If you're not a crab, they're awkward and repulsive.

Sooo... because they don't have good self-esteem about their penis or vagina, it feels really gross to have someone say "Hi lady, nice to meet you. I like your penis. Wanna fuck?" Kinda like... "Hi person, nice to meet you. Your crab claws are cool. Can you open this oyster for me?"
__________________
Gralson: my husband (works out of town).
Auto: my girlfriend (lives with her husband Zoffee).

The most dangerous phrase in the English language is "we've always done it this way."

Last edited by SchrodingersCat; 04-10-2014 at 06:46 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 04-10-2014, 11:02 PM
rdpeete rdpeete is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 8
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by london View Post
A trans woman doesn't want to be thought of as anything other than a woman. As a woman of colour, I wouldn't want someone who fetishized my race, and I can imagine many trans women would want someone who fetishized the fact they were born in the wrong body.

I wouldn't want someone who is "into" dating women of colour. I want someone who is into dating me. I'm a woman of colour, but I'm not just a woman of colour. The colour of my skin is not a particularly important part of me. I'm sure many trans women feel the same about their sex and gender. But no, I wouldn't want a partner who is dating me because of the browness of my skin.
I understand where you're coming from.
I honestly don't have any ill intent or fetishized view of transgender women. I'm simply attracted to them. They could be carrying a louisville slugger in their pants and that couldn't hide their terrible personality if they have one. Honestly, I think I'm just being trolled here; it happens, its the internet, right? lol
Anyway, I'm new here and I'm sure I have a lot to learn... I look forward to expanding and gaining new perspective.

Oh, and London... I love the link on your signature :-)
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 04-10-2014, 11:05 PM
rdpeete rdpeete is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 8
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonberry View Post
Looks like you didn't notice my post earlier. He's not looking for cis males. The word was "mates". As in, partners. As in "I'm looking for trans women, but also for cis women. I just didn't specify it because it wasn't relevant" which puts a damper on your theory that it's about checking boxes, since either trans or cis would both be fine with him.

He's saying that the trans people he finds, specifically, are only interested in casual sex. He doesn't seem to have that problem with the cis people he finds. He's asking how to help with that.
Many thanks for the clarification.
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 04-10-2014, 11:29 PM
rdpeete rdpeete is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 8
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
Obviously it depends on the community(s) you have access to you wherever you are. I am athiest and independent polyamorist... living in the fucking bible belt. So to me, I am WAY out on the fringe, in that my dating pool is slim pickings. If I had another trait contrary to what is commonly accepted here my dating pool would adjust accordingly (pick a trait, they're all frowned on down here).

There is no universal poly community as far as I can tell, any more than there is a universal atheist community. Sure there are groups and get togethers but they are only going to be as populated as the local society will likely produce. So asking the world wide web what is fringe is illogical. The people you should be asking live in zip codes very close to you.

As far as 'unicorn', I'm not sure why you asked but, to me, the definition of is a bit too strict. While I understand the most common mythical creature sought after is the hot-bi-babe to suckle a couple, it would also be correct to call the search for any specific and unlikely combination of traits to be unicorn hunting. Granted, that is going against conventional use of the term but I think the conventional use is dumb... so yah.



Without attacking you, I am also curious to know why a trans woman is something you find appealing in particular. I know you mentioned that you find women to be too interested in a sex only arrangement, but what is it about trans women that makes them the ideal? Are trans women more relationship oriented than women?

In my experience, pretty much everyone is relationship oriented and the people interested in casual or sex only relationships are few and far between. I have not known any trans women that I'm aware of so I'm wondering what leads you to the conclusion that they are more relationship oriented than women.
Well, Marcus... I'm just attracted to Trans Women. I'll admit that initially it was only sexual (but who doesn't feel that way when you're a teenager); however, I've matured since then and at one point wanted to be in a monogamous marriage with a Trans Woman (and it almost happened... She said she didn't love me anymore. Ouch, am I right?). When my wife and I discussed and came to the decision to give poly a try, the only thing that was a check-box was that I would stop at 3 spouses. Trans Women are people with dreams, fears, flaws and opinions just like anyone else and so relationships succeed or fail just like it would if I dated someone cis-gender. I was naive enough to believe that the relationship would be better, but learned (and adapted) the hard way and got them feels. My wife and I look for cis and transgender women simultaneously and have had more success getting responses from Cis Women... I don't know why and it seems I'll never figure it out. If I find 3 Cis Spouses, then that's that. I've already promised my wife that I would consult with and only move on the unanimous approval of the spouses; It's only fair in my view. I'm not sure why the only Trans Women that we receive responses from women only interested in sex (perhaps, the misconception that poly=swinger), but that's been my experience this time around. My 1st attempt at poly was with 2 Trans Women. So, no exclusive preference, no search for a token, no putting Trans Women "on a pedestal". Just searching and not doing so well amongst Trans Women.
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 04-11-2014, 03:17 AM
SchrodingersCat's Avatar
SchrodingersCat SchrodingersCat is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Saskatchewan
Posts: 2,130
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rdpeete View Post
I'm not sure why the only Trans Women that we receive responses from women only interested in sex (perhaps, the misconception that poly=swinger), but that's been my experience this time around.
How have you been wording your introductions?

Even if you don't perceive that you're singling them out, if you're mentioning their trans identity in your intro as something that you see as a positive trait, you might be doing more harm than good. It's probably better to just ignore it in any intros and act like you're just "talking to some gal online."

Also, while you're right that trolling happens on the internet, it wasn't happening here. My beliefs and comments were genuine and not spoken deliberately to get a rise.
__________________
Gralson: my husband (works out of town).
Auto: my girlfriend (lives with her husband Zoffee).

The most dangerous phrase in the English language is "we've always done it this way."
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 04-11-2014, 10:23 PM
rdpeete rdpeete is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 8
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SchrodingersCat View Post
How have you been wording your introductions?

Even if you don't perceive that you're singling them out, if you're mentioning their trans identity in your intro as something that you see as a positive trait, you might be doing more harm than good. It's probably better to just ignore it in any intros and act like you're just "talking to some gal online."

Also, while you're right that trolling happens on the internet, it wasn't happening here. My beliefs and comments were genuine and not spoken deliberately to get a rise.
I never mention anything about trans identity. I make it clear that we're seeking someone to enter a poly relationship, as well. I just got another message on the site I'm currently on, too... I think it's gonna have the same result, but I won't approach it with a negative attitude.

And as far as I'm concerned, its all water under the bridge... No worries
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
trans, transgender, unicorn, unicorns

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 05:36 PM.