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  #11  
Old 12-15-2009, 07:04 PM
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It's hard to process all of the pain of the initial betrayal, and to feel like I am the only one feeling the pain now. Their pain was in not being together and is gone now.
If they both truly care about you, then there is (was, probably still is) some pain revolving around hurting you as well. Also don't discount that Mary may be feeling pain at the loss of your friendship as well (whether or not she hides it or is willing to admit it - losing a "best friend" is a blow).

Not to say that anyone of you has a greater or lesser pain ... but just that I don't want you to discount what else might be going on. Their pain at being apart may be gone, but it may lead to a different pain of knowing that you still hurt because they're together.

All of these varieties of pain and guilt are ones that my H, my b/f, and I dealt with over time. Some of the pain is still there - although much lessened by time and communication.

Sometimes compartmentalizing - for the time being - is a good thing. As long as it doesn't become exclusionary over the long term. Giving people time to recover is sometimes necessary.

I wish there were an emoticon for a soft, slighly wry smile that didn't seem so "perky" as the bright yellow smiley face. It's hard to express the emotions w/out the body language sometimes ... but at the root of it all is a "hang in there" from me. If you all care about each other, it will get better.
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  #12  
Old 12-15-2009, 07:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Mark1npt View Post
All I can tell you, is that if it's in your husband's heart and ability to love the two of you and if you still love him and your best friend, it can be a tremendously wonderful time. Yes, there are issues and problems but show me a marriage or relationship that doesn't have any, and I tell you they're lying!

If the three of you want this together and want it badly enough, it can be done. My heart goes out to you and your situation. I know I can't take back the hurt and pain I've caused my wife and I will carry that burden to my grave. I'm sure your husband will too. I hope this helps in some small way.
Mark1npt, Thanks so much for reaching out to me, I read your original thread and lots of other posts and have found it very helpful. Does your wife post on here as well? I agree that this thing happens more often than is realized and usually it does end tragically with lives torn apart. No one wants that to happen in our lives and I am committed to doing the hard work of working this out so it meets all of our needs. We have two kids, 6 and 8 and Mary has two kids 5 and 7. Most likely our future doesn't include all living together because logistically it would prove very difficult. I thought I was dealing with a lot until I read about your situation and imagined what living together would be like. I admire the fearlessness of your wife, I'm not sure I could not have handled that right off the bat.
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  #13  
Old 12-15-2009, 07:33 PM
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Originally Posted by crisare View Post
If they both truly care about you, then there is (was, probably still is) some pain revolving around hurting you as well. Also don't discount that Mary may be feeling pain at the loss of your friendship as well (whether or not she hides it or is willing to admit it - losing a "best friend" is a blow).

Not to say that anyone of you has a greater or lesser pain ... but just that I don't want you to discount what else might be going on. Their pain at being apart may be gone, but it may lead to a different pain of knowing that you still hurt because they're together.
You're right about not discounting any pain they may be feeling still. Thanks for the reminder. I think I have tunnel vision right now and my feeling are so close to the surface and if I don't have any visible signs from anyone else I assume I am alone.

I also see the value in the compartments currently, in fact it feels necessary. I am not sure I could currently handle any real integrated scenario.

It gives me comfort to know that you have worked through some of these issues in your own life. And your support means a lot to me. Thanks!
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  #14  
Old 12-15-2009, 09:48 PM
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Originally Posted by lovely View Post
You're right about not discounting any pain they may be feeling still. Thanks for the reminder. I think I have tunnel vision right now and my feeling are so close to the surface and if I don't have any visible signs from anyone else I assume I am alone.

I also see the value in the compartments currently, in fact it feels necessary. I am not sure I could currently handle any real integrated scenario.
Wow. I am amazed with you and so humbled.

This statement blows me away so much because it show exactly the emotional integrity that I personally respect and appreciate. Not to mention STRIVE for on a daily basis!

You are so in touch with your feelings, honour your husbands and the woman he is in love with and honour the delicate nature of the whole situation. Your respect for them is incredible! Yet you don't belittle your own feelings/needs and need to have them. You seem to have a plan on how to handle what will come up and what is going on now emotionally. There are also tones of what could come up in the future that you have considered but acknowledge that you aren't there yet. It sounds like you have a good self esteem and feelings of self worth.

I don't know you, but my heart is swollen with admiration! Your unique ability to achieve such emotional integrity and share it so eloquently with us is much appreciated (no smiley fits that!)

Your man is very lucky to have you. I hope he realizes that. If not, you tell him I said so
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  #15  
Old 12-16-2009, 01:29 AM
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Originally Posted by redpepper View Post
You are so in touch with your feelings, honour your husbands and the woman he is in love with and honour the delicate nature of the whole situation. Your respect for them is incredible! Yet you don't belittle your own feelings/needs and need to have them. You seem to have a plan on how to handle what will come up and what is going on now emotionally. There are also tones of what could come up in the future that you have considered but acknowledge that you aren't there yet. It sounds like you have a good self esteem and feelings of self worth.
Ahh, that was very kind. My clarity about my feelings and respect for their relationship is my spiritual goal. In reality, I have been ruled by my emotions and in plenty of moments have contradicted that goal. It's hard to remember that emotions are just temporary and they too will pass. I have been reacting hastily in some very irratic emotional moments and it has been hurtful to me personally and my relationship...it's hard to always stay in that place of clarity and heart.

And I wish I felt like my feelings of self esteem and worth were strong. I think the thing I have discovered about myself in the last 6 weeks is that my self esteem/worth is lacking in a lot of ways. My most irrational moments are rooted in fears that only exist in my head. Fear of being replaced, fear of losing something sacred about my marriage etc. My husband has done nothing to reinforce or create these fears, they only exist inside of me. I find that I am having a hard time letting the love he feels for me truly in. So even when he is providing love, comfort and reassurance I can accept it in the moment as real, but it does nothing for me later if I get overcome by an emotion. I feel like I need to find the tools to manage the fear. And add in the pain of the betrayal that I may have left to process and it has gotten a little messy for me. It feels like work I am suppose to do, regardless of my marriage, because to live my life more freely, without irrational fear and self doubt would be a great thing. At 42, I am ready for that kind of transformation. And I think waiting on the other side is an unlimited supply of LOVE!
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  #16  
Old 12-16-2009, 02:45 AM
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Originally Posted by lovely View Post
You're right about not discounting any pain they may be feeling still. Thanks for the reminder. I think I have tunnel vision right now and my feeling are so close to the surface and if I don't have any visible signs from anyone else I assume I am alone.

I also see the value in the compartments currently, in fact it feels necessary. I am not sure I could currently handle any real integrated scenario.

It gives me comfort to know that you have worked through some of these issues in your own life. And your support means a lot to me. Thanks!
Please don't take this as a push-just a thought ok?

I wonder if it wouldn't be a good idea to plan 1-2 "dates" a month between you and Mary? Not LONG dates, nor dates at home or with your husband.
Just time for you each to express your sorry over the loss of your friendship and start working through your pain with one another.
Truly-your loss is multi-fold.
here's an off the top of my head list in no particular order:

You lost the trust you had for your husband.
You lost the trust you had for your friend.
You lost the relationship you had with your husband (trying to create a new one now)
You lost the relationship you had with your friend (as of yet not tryng to create a new one)

You may be able to identify MORE.

But with just those-what I see as a complication is that IF you and your husband are agreeing to have a V relationship (he is "with" you and he is "with" her) then it is going to be necessary to do several things:

Heal the trust between you and he (working on that from what you've said) Heal the trust between you and she (does'nt sound like you've started dealing with that)
Building a NEW relationship between you and he, healthier and stronger than the previous one.
Building a NEW relationship between you and her.

I don't think the last thing is possible without the first two being dealt with. The first step to dealign with any problem is admitting it exists, but the second is taking a step to acknowledge it and make a plan for fixing it.
If you and Mary start meeting on your own-it will be much easier to to take those steps. Her "love" for your husband and his "love" for her will NEVER heal the hurt in your about her. ONLY you and her working together can heal your relationship....

I really strongly suggest reading on www.lovemore.com and on xeromag.com the articles about jealousy and insecurity. They have some GREAT suggestions for actual STEPS to take to get things under control. One BIG thing is understanding that YOU DO HAVE A RIGHT TO YOUR FEELINGS. Its not necessary (or helpful) to deny them, but you have to acknowledge them AND face them AND ceal with them too.

It's not easy-but it can be done and you sound like an amazing woman-I believe that with the amount of character your posts show you have, you can do this-and maybe even be the guide to your husband and "ex-friend" in learning a HEALTHIER way of doing this!
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  #17  
Old 12-16-2009, 02:48 AM
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By the way, Maca and I live in a house with two other adults (my sister and boyfriend) and soon to be a 3rd adult (friend in crisis) as well as 3 "kids" (oldest is 18, but still in highschool) and soon to be a 4th (child of friend in crisis).

As much as it SOUNDS impossible-it's very possible to have a large family with an odd mix live together as a family.

NOT saying you should do that NOW. NO WAY.

But don't discount the possibility that IF you and Mary build a TRUE loving friendship AND you and your husband build a healthy happy strong marriage AND he remains in love with both of you, that you couldn't happily live together and very productively raise all 4 kids.
The kids tend to be the EASIEST part to integrate!
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  #18  
Old 12-16-2009, 02:56 AM
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Originally Posted by lovely View Post
My most irrational moments are rooted in fears that only exist in my head. Fear of being replaced, fear of losing something sacred about my marriage etc. My husband has done nothing to reinforce or create these fears, they only exist inside of me.
Please forgive me but I feel I MUST correct you. I watch Maca struggle with this too-but it's not JUST in your head.
It IS in your head. But not ONLY in your head.
It's also in the way we are taught to see things, in the way society TELLS US we should think and feel.
So it's not just a problem of YOURS.

One of the biggest struggles we face in life is recognizing our own strengths WITHIN our failures. It's easy to see our accomplishment when we win the race in 1st place. Its much harder to SEE our accomplishment when we come in 136th place. BUT if we met or beat our own goal/time, then it is an accomplishment, even if the only accomplishment was that we didn't quit!

I could give lots of examples-but I won't unless you tell me too!
I will go see if I can find some helpful articles to share with you though!
No promises-I am having some medical issues as laptop died-so in order to be online I have to use a desktop-which is something I am very limited in ability to do right now. But I'll see what I can do!

You touch me with your perseverence and honesty and integrity about your feelings and your situation!
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  #19  
Old 12-16-2009, 03:12 AM
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Originally Posted by lovely View Post
My most irrational moments are rooted in fears that only exist in my head. Fear of being replaced, fear of losing something sacred about my marriage etc. My husband has done nothing to reinforce or create these fears, they only exist inside of me.
I would disagree with this. Don't be so quick to dismiss your own feelings in these situations. Your feelings are your feelings and you still have to work through them, whether others think they are rational or not.

And the fact is that your husband *did* do something to create those fears by betraying your trust and confidence when he had the affair. Even though you've given permission for their relationship to resume, it doesn't negate the previous breach of trust. Now, I'm not saying you should dwell on it, but forgiving doesn't always mean forgetting ... or failing to be vigilant so it doesn't happen again.

It's a hard place to be in and they are hard feelings to work over. In my last relationship my b/f did something extremely cruel to me - it wasn't intentional; he was reacting instead of thinking, but it was cruel and hurtful nonetheless. He admitted it was cruel, promised not to react that way again, and apologized. However, he would get defensive when I would react cautiously in some circumstances, saying "I apologized for what happened already, many times." I finally had to explain to him that even though I accepted the apology and was willing to move on, the act itself left a mark and he was going to have to accept that I was going to be cautious about certain situations for a while. He expected the apology to just wipe the slate clean as though it had never happened ... and life just doesn't work like that.

Let yourself feel the hurt you feel and work through it rather than branding it irrational and trying to force it away.
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  #20  
Old 12-16-2009, 03:41 AM
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http://www.xeromag.com/fvpolyjealousy.html

That one is "the theory of jealousy management: so how do you deal with jealousy"


http://www.xeromag.com/fvpolyrefrigerator.html

That one is "The practice of jealousy managment:fixing the refrigerator "(GOOD ONE!)

http://www.xeromag.com/fvpolypiano.html

"How to become a secure person" (this one I found very useful and thought it was well put)


http://www.xeromag.com/fvpolycommunication.html

That is "communication it's harder than you think"
(I included it-because especially when trying to fix something that is already been damaged this is SO critical!
Also-check out the thread started by RIVER about Communication... I tihnk I have it in my private messages sent folder...

http://www.lovemore.com/articles/abyss.php
This one is called "jealousy and the abyss" (I haven't read it yet so if it sucks-sorry!)


Just to clarify-I chose these because they address how to handle our physical reactions to our emotions-not because there is ANYTHING wrong with HAVING said emotions!
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