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  #121  
Old 08-20-2010, 10:17 PM
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Morningglory629 Morningglory629 is offline
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  #122  
Old 08-21-2010, 01:26 PM
GroundedSpirit GroundedSpirit is offline
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Originally Posted by sage View Post
I didn't realize there were so many pagans around. What does being pagan mean in practical terms these days? I still have visions of people prancing around forests half naked searching for mushrooms, but I sure it's more about a connection with nature.
LOL

Well Sage, "paganisim" is about as broad a brush as you could find but I think in general you are more or less on the right track.
There's as many flavors of paganisim as there are colors in the rainbow but if you choose to investigate more, I suspect you will find that there is still a strong foundation in animism. Which goes a bit beyond a respect and reverence for 'nature' because nature is slippery to define - kind of another broad brush itself.
But one common element I suspect you will find is some acknowledgement that everything around us is alive and interwoven. Whether you approach this from a faith/understanding perspective or from such as a direction of quantum physics makes little difference. The connections are acknowledged and respected in some form.

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  #123  
Old 08-21-2010, 10:11 PM
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Thanks GS, that's why I asked what Pagan looks like in practical terms. In Wikipedia the info is so diverse that it's almost unhelpful.

For some reason I'm wondering if you're vegetarian? I suppose it's the respect for the spirit of the animal and in our society there is very little of that in meat processing.

Strangely my eldest daughter "came out" at the age of 12 as wiccan. She took it very seriously and it was a huge deal as she was at a conservative christian girls school at the time. It lasted a year or so and now she's back to being a born again christian, but I learned quite a bit.

Then my second daughter was very different and we sent her to a Rudolf Steiner school. So I learned all about elementals and biodynamics.

I'm trying to work out where all this is going as I write. I guess, I have an interest but the subject it so diverse that it is really hard to get a handle on it that is relatively simple and works in normal society. I like the connections with nature, I like the respect for the solstices and seasons, a little freaked by the rituals and costumes.

Do you know of any good links, like "neopaganism for dummies"?
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  #124  
Old 08-21-2010, 11:57 PM
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fleurisseur fleurisseur is offline
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Smile God ??? an absurdity... yes my dearest

It is rather simple to demonstrate that

god is a human invention,
a scientific absurdity,
invented by hypocrits
to dominate ignorants/unclevers


It takes around
2 hours of astrophysics
2 hour of elementary physics/chemistry
2 hours of humanity history
2 hours of "religion comparison"
2 hours of psychoanalysis/philosophy
... and the simple ability to listen "heavy critics"

You may take inscription to my trainings on this subject, whatever the religion you have "learned" in your youth.

99% of the attendees (even muslims...) leave the religion in the same week.
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  #125  
Old 08-21-2010, 11:58 PM
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Magdlyn Magdlyn is offline
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Originally Posted by sage View Post
I like the connections with nature, I like the respect for the solstices and seasons, a little freaked by the rituals and costumes.
What about the rituals do you find freaky?

Costumes? I never wear a costume when performing or taking place in a ritual. I mean, at Samhain (Halloween), I might, everyone wears costumes then! At Yule, I wear a pretty velvet dress.

Some people wear robes, but then, so do Catholic priests and some nuns.

A few groups go skyclad sometimes, but not up here in New England! Brrr... A pagan friend of mine in Georgia reports some people get somewhat naked, but it's damn hot down there! And in that group, a party with alcohol heats thing up further.

I've seen some people dress as the Holly King (like Santa) or the Green Man, cool and leafy.

Most of the northern pagan holidays/rituals have been co-opted by the Catholic church or the culture at large. Ever wonder why groundhog day is such a big deal? It's Imbolc. Easter? Ostara. Mother's Day/May Day? Beltane. Christmas and a week later, New Years Eve? Yule!
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  #126  
Old 08-22-2010, 03:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fleurisseur View Post
It is rather simple to demonstrate that

god is a human invention,
a scientific absurdity,
invented by hypocrits
to dominate ignorants/unclevers


It takes around
2 hours of astrophysics
2 hour of elementary physics/chemistry
2 hours of humanity history
2 hours of "religion comparison"
2 hours of psychoanalysis/philosophy
... and the simple ability to listen "heavy critics"

You may take inscription to my trainings on this subject, whatever the religion you have "learned" in your youth.

99% of the attendees (even muslims...) leave the religion in the same week.


Ha ha.... this is absurd. I've actually studied most of these - astrophysics being the only one I haven't studied to some degree or another - and Not a single one, or all of them combined, can "prove" that God, Allah, YHWH, or whatever other label or name you want to slap on the divine, is false. In fact, several of the 'facts' these studies teach can be used to "prove" that deity is real.

Most scientific studies simply cannot explain many of the things I have experienced firsthand in my life. Many other people can say the same thing, regardless of which particular religion they subscribe to.

Personally, I'll take this argument one step further, and state that several of the current theories of quantum physics dovetail PERFECTLY with magickal theory that has existed since the 1800s, when the Golden Dawn was active and researching pretty much everything they could get their hands on. Examples include the Double Slit theory, Planck Time, and others.

Add to this the fact that there is DOCUMENTED, RECORDED EVIDENCE that proves the fact that injured and/or sick people who are prayed over by friends/family who truly believe in their religion, recover faster than people with the same illness/injury that recieve no prayer. The interesting thing here (at least to me) is that the particular religion of the person praying has absolutely no difference on the effect. In other words, it doesn't matter if the praying person is calling on God, Jesus, Allah, Mohhammad, Jehovah, or the Great Flying Spaghetti Monster, the effect is the same - faster recovery for their loved one than if they hadn't recieved prayer.

Science does not determine what is and is not reality. It is merely a means for the human mind to try to codify, label, and define the world around them. Personally, I believe that it is the absolute height of arrogance to believe that just because we can't explain something or understand it through the 'scientific method', then that must mean it isn't real or doesn't exist. Hell, a mere 8 centuries ago, it was commonly believed that the world was flat. It couldn't be proven that the world was round at that point, but that certaintly doesn't mean that the world WAS flat. It just means that we, as human beings, didn't know any better yet.

It both amuses and irritates me the way some people hide behind 'the scientific method' to justify the belief that things they don't want to accept or deal with simply don't exist. That rationale is both arrogant, and completely un-scientific unto itself.
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Last edited by Karma; 08-22-2010 at 03:57 AM.
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  #127  
Old 08-22-2010, 04:28 AM
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fleurisseur fleurisseur is offline
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Smile very funny, but ok, enough

The main issue, in "religion maters" is BRAIN WASHING...

The amount of FALLACIES (misconception resulting from incorrect reasoning in argumentation) said by "believers" is as huge as simple to destroy. I do it since a long time.

I would just suggest you (and any others) to assist to some "special conferences-debates"...

BUT, to discuss here about such "proofs" is irrelevant...

I am here to "talk poly", nothing more, even if sometimes I smile a little bit when "believers" ...hum... sell their god... sell their prayers... sell their sacred books... sell their priests/imams/prophets/gurus/beliefs...

I decide on my side to STOP on this subject. This would not respect the "main guide line" of the "poly forum".
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  #128  
Old 08-22-2010, 05:59 AM
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I have debated on whether to post on this topic, but after discussing with a couple Christian friends, I have come to a rather good conclusion. I am an Apatheist. I am not an Atheist who says God does not exist. I am not an Agnostic who says they don't know if God exists. I am an Apatheist who just doesn't really care if God exists and unless asked, doesn't think about it one day to the next.

I was raised basically Atheist, we celebrated commercialized holidays, didn't go to church except for weddings and funerals.

So, any other Apatheists in our group?
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  #129  
Old 08-22-2010, 06:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fleurisseur View Post
The main issue, in "religion maters" is BRAIN WASHING...

The amount of FALLACIES (misconception resulting from incorrect reasoning in argumentation) said by "believers" is as huge as simple to destroy. I do it since a long time.

I would just suggest you (and any others) to assist to some "special conferences-debates"...

BUT, to discuss here about such "proofs" is irrelevant...

I am here to "talk poly", nothing more, even if sometimes I smile a little bit when "believers" ...hum... sell their god... sell their prayers... sell their sacred books... sell their priests/imams/prophets/gurus/beliefs...

I decide on my side to STOP on this subject. This would not respect the "main guide line" of the "poly forum".
Cute. I bring arguments supported by things anyone can look up and confirm. You decide to question my judgement without any supporting arguments whatsoever....

Clever way to back out of an argument you don't have the information to defend. I think I've made my point here.
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  #130  
Old 08-22-2010, 08:41 AM
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Mohegan Mohegan is offline
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Hey Sage- I tend to clarify it by saying Paganism is the broad term to encompass religions that do not believe Christ is the mesiah (the original "definition" of the term). Just as Christianity is the broad term to encompass those who do.

I'm a fan of Scott Cunningham and AJ Drew, as far as authors go. They are more Wicca based, but still very good authors. Not sure on websites. There aren't too many I trust. But I'm open to answering questions if you have any.
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