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  #11  
Old 11-09-2011, 08:40 PM
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I don't think anyone is baffled -- what you're looking for is very commom (thus the existence of a term for it, "unicorn hunters). It's actually quite the opposite, I think most people on this board are very familiar with the idea of a couple seeking a third, and the purpose of our questions is to see if you've thought through the implications of what you're seeking more thoroughly than others who've come before and met with trouble they didn't expect.

I hope that doesn't sound too condescending?

Another question -- what if you meet another person who's into you and who you're both into, but this person had an existing relationship, or even am existing life partnership. Would that be acceptable, or are you only looking for someone single?
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The major players. Me, 30ish bi female. Gia, girlfriend of 4+ years. Clay, boyfriend/dom. Davis, ex/friend/"it's complicated." Eddie, roommate & fwb.
The supporting cast. Eric, Gia's husband. Bee, Gia and Eric's toddler. Dexter, Gia's lover. Helen, Eric's lover. Izzy and Nikki, Clay's partners. Liam, Eddie's husband.
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  #12  
Old 11-09-2011, 09:30 PM
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Maybe I'm just in a weird mood today but this thread is fascinating.
I'd like to see how this plays out along the journey. Now who is the morbid one? And no, I am not predicting disaster or anything like that.
I think the honesty about how they got to where they are is very refreshing. There really are 'couples' who are that intertwined (that they pine away when one of them passes on). Coming to poly out of a conversation that started from concern for a partner in the event of the passing of the other is not something I'd ever heard of before.
As a relative newbie myself, I get where the 'oldies but goodies' are coming from about the unicorn.
I suspect that many of us ventured into poly with a unicorn in mind and eventually realized how we were blocking ourselves and our partners from being open to love however it comes along.
Being open to different possible configurations takes a lot of work, and perhaps, a level of commitment and communication that induces so much anxiety in some that they hold onto an ideal that seems safe. I'm by no means accusing any particular couple here of doing that, just wondering about the whole unicorn phenomena. Sure it 'seems' less fraught with complications but the realities I've seen and read about put that myth to rest.
Sorry to ramble in your thread... I really do hope ya'll will blog or some such about your journey and the transformations you experience.
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  #13  
Old 11-09-2011, 10:51 PM
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What happens if the person you eventually meet happens to die first? Would they need to be replaced so that when one of you die the original spouse still has someone to lean on?
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  #14  
Old 11-09-2011, 11:55 PM
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Thank you for your insight. It is much appreciated. We don't plan on casting aside our couple. We love them and would never do that. However, they are sexual partners who have cooled off to about once or twice a year. That relationship has become more of a hang out have a good time together non-sexual relationship mostly. They are very, very good friends. However, the reason that has cooled off is because they are devoted to one another. Would we be able to lean on them in a time of need, certainly, but it isn't the same. For him, her needs will always take precedence, for her his will, we are outsiders to their marriage. I don't think of myself as a sex tool first with them but that is pretty much, other than great friendship, what we are.

That's why we are here to find someone who will put us first, be our wife/husband. Our friends would completely understand that and would not pass judgement on us for it. Our new person would love them too, but sex would not be a requirement, and if our new person didn't want them to be involved with us sexually anymore then we wouldn't because the new person would be our new marriage partner and therefore outrank our friends.

It's complicated I suppose, but it's something we have decided to do and hope to grow and find someone to share our life, our marriage with.
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  #15  
Old 11-10-2011, 01:08 AM
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Wow, cool that you have been with another couple all your marriage. I have been married for ten years too and poly longer than that. We have run the gamut on relationship configurations and have found over the years that our independence of each other is what has brought the most successful relationship dynamics. Seeing ourselves as a couple only freaked people out for the most part or they eventually fall in love with one of us, not both... We would usually start with great sex and they would change to love of one of us while we both would love them. When we started we started as a triad. I met my husband that way. He came into our relationship. My other marriage ended as a result. I was naive to think that it would work. It rarely works for the long haul... if I had known better at the time I would of suggested a vee, but we were stubborn and it blew apart.

Its hard to wrap ones head around independence (the opposite to co-dependence) when all we know and are raised with is coupledom, but I really suggest trying to figure it out. It has meant that we are now the strongest we have ever been and could live with or without each other without feeling like love is scarce. Love is abundant if we let go of owning one another and feeling like we will be alone in life.

There is a lot here to read on "unicorns" if you are interested. Its a hot topic and comes around often. There are also some really good writings on "foundations" and "lessons" in terms of poly... might help too. Check the tags in the search engine and you shall see what tags their are. Looking around and getting an idea on peoples stories might be helpful. Thank you for not starting a account where you both write... its so confusing and annoying for those of us reading. Appreciate that
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  #16  
Old 11-10-2011, 02:37 AM
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I also find this thread completely fascinating, and most informative and enlightening. Some of this is still unfamiliar to me though, like 'v' or 'vee'...what is that exactly?

As for the new third having a previous relationship or current relationship, well we aren't really at that particular point but if the person we fall in love with is involved elsewhere, then we would definitely have to reevaluate and since that person would be part of the new person we want to be part of then we together would have to discuss if we would want to continue or if it would be better to let them go. I don't want to sound selfish, but we know what we want, and we hope to find a single person to add to our marriage, not a couple. We kind of don't think that will be much of an issue simply because we won't be looking for that couple, but be seeking out a single who hopefully will be seeking for a couple like us.

You may start thinking now that what if the new person meets someone and wants the chance to explore their feelings with that 4th person...that would not be something we would be willing to be a part of. We aren't looking for another couple, we aren't looking for a quad relationship, or communal marriage. We simply want one more person to be married to. And if that person is married to us, then there would be no others but us. We want a wife, or a husband, a faithful spouse for the rest of our lives.

Now the question has been raised about the possibility of the new person dieing before me or D. I hadn't really thought of that but we discussed it and we both agree that if that should happen, then we will have been blessed with the opportunity to have had a loving, nourishing relationship with that soul and would be able to comfort each other during our time of loss. Would we then go seek out another? Maybe, maybe not. To find it once is apparently a long shot, twice might be impossible.

I really appreciate the responses from each and every one of you. This is keeping the conversations between me and D very interesting indeed.
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  #17  
Old 11-10-2011, 08:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Times2 View Post
Some of this is still unfamiliar to me though, like 'v' or 'vee'...what is that exactly?
Read the sticky note titled Glossary and Definitions at the top of this New to Poly forum.
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  #18  
Old 11-10-2011, 07:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Times2 View Post
I don't want to sound selfish, but we know what we want, and we hope to find a single person to add to our marriage, not a couple. We kind of don't think that will be much of an issue simply because we won't be looking for that couple, but be seeking out a single who hopefully will be seeking for a couple like us.
My guess is that this will be greatly limit your options of partners, especially considering that you're not (I assume?) in the age bracket where people are not yet likely to have sought out a life partnership (late teens, early 20s). There are definitely some great solo poly people out there who are older than that (hi Nycindie! ), but it may well be that they are single out of choice and aren't looking for a closed life partnership.

I think it's this desire that the new person come without existing partnerships or existing "complications" that leads to unicorns often being younger then the couple they're joining (definitely a pattern I've noticed, at least). This can lead to other problems, unfortunately, such as the new person being a little naive and not really knowing what they want or what they're getting into, and/or not having the communication and relationship skills to navigate the situation once they're in it.

It takes someone really strong and confident to stand up for their needs in a healthy, effective way in the face of two people with a long-standing partnership when they're the newbie who's still figuring out how they fit in, *especially* when the other people are older and more experienced. Such a person who can really handle that tricky position well -- probably an experienced poly person in your own age bracket -- is likely to have one or more old flames, lovers or partners that they'd be loathe to discard for a couple of new people and an untried triad. I'm not saying it'd be impossible to find such a person... just hard. Maybe a divorcee, or a widow or widower?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Times2 View Post
You may start thinking now that what if the new person meets someone and wants the chance to explore their feelings with that 4th person...that would not be something we would be willing to be a part of. We aren't looking for another couple, we aren't looking for a quad relationship, or communal marriage. We simply want one more person to be married to. And if that person is married to us, then there would be no others but us. We want a wife, or a husband, a faithful spouse for the rest of our lives.
To be honest, I do find this bit really, really selfish. You two have been involved with another couple for years, so you *know* that commitment and sexual exploration with others are not mutually exclusive. So why demand sexual fidelity from your new third when you've been living happily without it for so long? Why assume they can't be serious with you and still be interested in someone else? Why leave the door open to continue being involved with the other couple you two have your long-standing affair with as long as it's ok with the newbie, but bar the door to anyone else they like?

You two have been together a long time. You have your established patterns and rhythms, you know with absolute certainty the role you play in each other's lives. There's great safety and comfort in that. No matter how welcoming you try to be to your new third, it will take a long time -- years, if ever, before he or she really feels on the same "level" as that with you (after all, I'm sure it didn't all happen overnight for you two!). So under the scenario you've described, you two get the security of your settled love AND the thrilling, scary, exciting, tumultuous experience of new love... while the new person only is allowed the latter. How is that supposed to make him or her feel like they're really being treated fairly? You two got to decide for yourselves that you were ready to open up to a new love without it riskng your existing love... how is it that the new person is never to be allowed to make that same determination?

I'm absolutely sure you guys have pure hearts and only the best intentions, I am. But what you're looking to do will radically alter your existing relationship and build brand new ones within the triad you look to form. That can be wonderful, but it wil also almost certainly be unpredictable, and it will take a great deal of discarding of preconceptions and openness to what comes, and to the fact that it may not look like what you expect. With what you've described, you guys make all the choices, set all the standards and rules, and the new person can take it or leave it. I don't see that as authentically building a new, equal, three-way relationship... I see that as trying to find the simplest, least threatening way to add a new person to your existing relationship like an accessory, like (as you've described above) a "love insurance policy" for when one of you dies. The reason I've taken all the time to type this out is to convey one message -- it's likely gonna be more complicated than that.

Btw, a "vee" is when one person is partnered to two people who aren't partnered to each other.
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The major players. Me, 30ish bi female. Gia, girlfriend of 4+ years. Clay, boyfriend/dom. Davis, ex/friend/"it's complicated." Eddie, roommate & fwb.
The supporting cast. Eric, Gia's husband. Bee, Gia and Eric's toddler. Dexter, Gia's lover. Helen, Eric's lover. Izzy and Nikki, Clay's partners. Liam, Eddie's husband.
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  #19  
Old 11-11-2011, 12:07 AM
Times2 Times2 is offline
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Thank you so much for your input Anna. It is greatly appreciated and you have made us look again at what it is we expect. You are right, some of this does seem very very selfish for us to ask of someone in the poly community. As we have been posting and putting into black and white our intentions and thoughts, the more we are understanding that maybe the polyamorus community isn't where we need to be. Apparently we are polygamists. Now that you have brought up the issue of the other couple, we can and have agreed that because tje other couple are our best friends and will understand exactly what we are looking for and why its important to us, we will not ask the new person to accept or be part of any extra marital activities with them and we will cease as well. How can we ask someone to be faithful to us and accept it be ok if we wanna get kinky with old friends. I suppose we just learned that what we truly want is a plural marriage...polygamy. Exclusivity between 3 spouses. Thank you for helping us learn that about ourselves.
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  #20  
Old 11-11-2011, 12:44 AM
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Heh, it's funny, I suppose it's pretty obvious that my suggestion would've been to consider opening up more rather than the reverse. But you guys are not me and I certainly can't tell you what's right for you. I'm glad you found my words of use.

I would say that the sort of closed, three-person polygamous marriage you're seeking is a form of polyfidelity (closed relationships between more than two people), which is a form of polyamory (love between more than two people), so you're still in the family in my book.

You may continue to get people questioning your method, since more than one person here had started with the goal you did and then moved to a more open model (as per RP's story above). Still, I would encourage you to continue viewing our community as a potential source of help even if you chose not to identify with it per se, since 1) we have members in three-person relationships and people who practice polyfidelity, and 2) you say it's helped so much already.

I do have to ask -- why do you consider sexual exclusivity such an important condition for your new partner when you have two examples of marriages -- yours and that of your friends -- that have functioned without it for so long with no diminishing of love or commitment? It puzzles me.
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The major players. Me, 30ish bi female. Gia, girlfriend of 4+ years. Clay, boyfriend/dom. Davis, ex/friend/"it's complicated." Eddie, roommate & fwb.
The supporting cast. Eric, Gia's husband. Bee, Gia and Eric's toddler. Dexter, Gia's lover. Helen, Eric's lover. Izzy and Nikki, Clay's partners. Liam, Eddie's husband.
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