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  #111  
Old 12-30-2011, 07:41 PM
AnotherConfused AnotherConfused is offline
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Oh wow, they're ALL coming to the same New Year's Eve dance tomorrow! I'm not sure if I should be excited or worried. I was planning it as a date with my husband, but L's daughter plays in one of the bands so she talked him into coming, and C heard about it from mutual dance friends and decided to make the trip. My husband looked a little alarmed when I told him. At least at dances it's acceptable to devote all one's attention to one partner at a time, so I will do that and possibly have quite an ecstatic night.
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  #112  
Old 12-31-2011, 05:23 PM
dingedheart dingedheart is offline
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You used said you were will to risk your marriage to have this greater connection. I thought you used the word starved to describe what you needed. You think its simpler than it appears or I stated...how so? I guess I'll have to reread this thread from the beginning.

Nothing wrong if everyone's happy.

My thoughts come from a place of fundamental fairness. And with that mindset reading that you got uncomfortable at the sight, suggestion, and discussion of other women put a highlight on the word special or less special.
I was thinking how would each of them plug special or less special to describe this dynamic.

The reason I asked about hubs reaction was I could see many conflicting emotions and thoughts if this were to happen to me. Just wondered about his take.

Did you describe your marriage as painful to your husband? God if anyone had directly told me that I would gladly release them from that union. I guess someone did indirectly tell me that and now seems to have reversed their position.

Have fun at the party I'm sure everything will be fine
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  #113  
Old 12-31-2011, 06:59 PM
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nycindie nycindie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnotherConfused View Post
Oh wow, they're ALL coming to the same New Year's Eve dance tomorrow! I'm not sure if I should be excited or worried. I was planning it as a date with my husband, but L's daughter plays in one of the bands so she talked him into coming, and C heard about it from mutual dance friends and decided to make the trip. My husband looked a little alarmed when I told him. At least at dances it's acceptable to devote all one's attention to one partner at a time, so I will do that and possibly have quite an ecstatic night.
They are still your friends, the friends you have always had. You don't have to act any differently. Just because there is an added element of more intimacy with them doesn't mean you have to let it weird you out. I think the problem here is still your husband's feelings about how close you are to them. He has allowed it but still judges it and thinks it is wrong, but you don't have to let that make you nervous or feel like you're doing anything wrong. Don't be so afraid! Enjoy the attention and closeness you have with all your men!
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solopoly.net/2014/10/31/why-im-not-a-secondary-partner-the-short-version/
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  #114  
Old 01-01-2012, 11:10 AM
AnotherConfused AnotherConfused is offline
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Ouch, tonight didn't go well at all! We were at a dance hall with 3 floors of dancing, and my husband decided to spend some of his time on a different floor from me, where he could do more mellow dancing. I asked him to join me on the main floor before midnight.

At 11:45 they announced it was the second-to-last dance before midnight, so I asked C to dance. Before the band started, my husband walked up, looking upset, and said he wanted to do the next dance with me. I said of course. I had a good dance with C, wished him a happy new year, then found my husband, who launched into an angry tirade about how I should have been with him since 11:45. Not just the last dance before midnight, but the 15 minutes before midnight. (For the kind of dancing we do, it is common practice to change partners for each dance.)

I told him that wasn't what I thought we'd planned, but that we were doing the last dance. He continued to try to convince me that I had done something wrong. I told him it didn't feel like he actually wanted to be happily enjoying dancing with me, but rather that he was trying to stake some kind of claim. So he said forget it, everything was ok, but I was too hurt to enjoy the dance, and when midnight came and went we were still mad.

Now it's past 3am and I am not even able to be in the same bed with him. He has accused me of not caring about him, of not wanting to make him happy, of not wanting to dance with him as much as I wanted to dance with C. (Thank god L changed plans last minute and didn't make it.) He said I danced with C at least 6 or 8 times, when it was really only 3. He said if he hadn't come up to me when he did, I would probably have danced with C until midnight, and C would have expected a midnight kiss since he came without a date. It's like he's making up a version of reality that turns me into a bad wife, but it's not based on fact. So how can I make it right?

Ironically when I asked C for that dance, I'd actually hoped to ask the woman who had been dancing with him before that. She's someone I really like (friend-wise). But she moved off before I could get to her, so I asked C. Never realizing I was breaking my husband's unwritten 15-minutes-before-midnight rule.

I'm so tired. I just wanted to go out and have fun. And up until almost midnight, I did have fun. It hurts that the only bad part of the night was with my husband. I work so hard on this, and it seems to make no difference. Tonight, I failed.
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  #115  
Old 01-01-2012, 11:22 AM
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NovemberRain NovemberRain is offline
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umm, please forgive me, I know I'm new here and stuff...

But, um, how is it *your* failure? I can't possibly see that you have failed when it was his unspoken expectation that upset him.

Imagine you're 12, and you are on the playground. You're happily playing jacks, when your friends come up and say, 'hay AC, you're not being a good friend, you should have been playing fooshinball with us' Would that make you feel like a failure? You didn't know they wanted you to play, and you have no earthly idea what fooshinball might be. Not your failure.

Just food for thought. I'm still awake cuz my night wasn't exactly ideal either. Not horrible, just less than I desired.
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  #116  
Old 01-01-2012, 12:34 PM
Sonic Sonic is offline
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Oh gosh, that sounds so familiar. I got the same treatment from my partner a little while ago. Accusing me of being selfish when I broke some unwritten rule that only existed in his mind.

Your husband is struggling with this, obviously. You have a lot of work ahead of you.

But don't internalize his accusations. You didn't do anything wrong.

He is expressing some deeper feeling of hurt and jealousy that is only triggered by your behavior. I believe that you could behave like a nun and still get the accusations, because the reason behind him accusing you has nothing to do with your behavior. Seriously.
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  #117  
Old 01-01-2012, 12:43 PM
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I have to second NovemberRain, this wasn't your fault.

Your husband has to learn to ask for what he wants. If he is unsatisfied with you/your behavior or the situation at hand he has to get his act together and open his mouth. You aren't a mind-reader or some kind of empathetic person who is able to read minds. And you will make this worse if you start to search for faults in your behavior, this will make him feel justified for being upset while he was just coping really badly because of his own problems.

He needs to see that if he wants things to go a special way, he needs to clarify what he imagined to happen and how. If he was unable to predict beforehand that this or that will upset him, he needs to own his emotions and stop blaming you for doing something that felt natural for you and was an expression fo your wishes. You really need to talk about this problem, but not only about the things that happened that night but about the problems that are behind those actions/reactions.

Good luck and I am sorry that your night became so complicated in the end.
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  #118  
Old 01-01-2012, 05:01 PM
AnotherConfused AnotherConfused is offline
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I don't really think I was at fault, NovemberRain, but my husband sure wants me to think so. Apparently he thinks I should have wanted to dance the last 15 minutes before midnight with him, and the fact that I hadn't looked around to see if he was in the room yet before I asked C to dance was a sign I really don't care about him. He seems to think the room was full of couples seeking out their sweethearts at two dances before midnight, and I was the only wife in the room who wasn't bothering to look for her husband.

I keep saying, "I can't meet your expectations if I don't know what they are," and he keeps saying, "Any reasonable person would have understood that we should be together for the 15 minutes before midnight." Plus, he's claiming to have taken the high road by letting me have that dance with C, because he says if I'd been with anyone else he would have asked them to step aside, but he didn't because of my feelings for C. If he'd asked someone I was partnered with to step aside, I would have been horrified. Nobody does that.

Sonic, Phy, I agree there must be some deeper issues behind this, but I don't know how to get past where we are right now to find them. He seems to be feeling like I don't make him feel special enough. I don't know how to do that. I mean, I really think I try my best. Especially the past few weeks since we set clear ground rules for my relationships with C and L -I've made sure to devote lots more attention to my husband, and heated up our sex life, and poured more time and energy into our family, to make sure he's not short-changed. But fighting like this, I don't want to sleep with him, or have sex with him, or dance with him, or anything else.
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  #119  
Old 01-01-2012, 05:23 PM
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Honestly, nothing you will do at the moment can please him as it seems. Stop making this your problem, at least for the moment. As you describe it, he won't be up for any agreement. What is a 'reasonable person'? As long as he isn't able to see that he is shaping a world that is only understandable from his point of view, but is expecting you to exactly know what is going on in his head, you won't move one inch.

If he does things that make him uncomfortable, he has to see that it was HIS choice to do so and that it is highly unreasonable to expect you to eat humble pie because of his generosity when you don't even know that this was bothering him. Again the mind-reader-problem and again something that falls within his remit. He needs to see that you can only work on his problems when you know what they are.

If he feels that you don't make him feel special enough, you yourself say that you do all that you can think of, it's again something he needs to get across to in regard to why this is the case and how you could be able to change it. The only person that is able to tell you about that is him alone. You have done all you could.

I am sorry that you have such a hard time and I know that this seems really difficult right know to solve this, but I hope that you can filter down to him that he needs to do some introspection to give you a chance to be able to meet his needs in the future.
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  #120  
Old 01-01-2012, 06:41 PM
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nycindie nycindie is offline
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I remember having an argument with my husband once, early in our relationship. We hadn't been married very long at that point. He was angry and upset about something I wore (!). He felt that it reflected poorly on him, as his wife, and he was clearly and visibly upset, heated up, wanting a fight. He seemed to expect something from me to either justify his upset or make it go away. Basically to conform to an idea he had about proper behavior from me.

I responded by calmly telling him that nothing I could do or say at that moment would change how he feels, that it was his responsibility to manage his emotions, and that I wouldn't get into a conversation about it while he was so hopping mad. When he was ready to discuss things calmly I would be there, but not before. He came back later and apologized because in all his stewing he realized that what he was upset about was coming from his opinions and expectations about "a wife" rather than anything about me as a person. And when he realized I wasn't going to fight with him because I wanted to work on things practically instead, it was like an epiphany to him (his ex constantly fought with him).

I hope you and your husband can discuss things rationally -- but for any progress to be made, he has to realize that you are not hurting him. He is choosing to feel hurt over imagined slights and that is where his self-work should begin.
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The world opens up... when you do.

"Oh, oh, can't you see? Love is the drug for me." ~Bryan Ferry
"Love and the self are one . . ." ~Leo Buscaglia "

An excellent blog post on hierarchy in polyamory:
solopoly.net/2014/10/31/why-im-not-a-secondary-partner-the-short-version/
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