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  #101  
Old 12-27-2011, 07:52 AM
AnotherConfused AnotherConfused is offline
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During my own recent holiday party tour I was reminded of one last year and I wondered what happened with the party you were planning to go to. How did it go? Big deal or no big deal?

You can't leave us hanging...
Oh, it was pretty much no big deal, so I didn't think it merited writing about. I offered to go alone or find another friend to go with, but my husband decided he wanted to go so he could play music. He had a good time, and it was a big crowd so there was no opportunity for drama. I danced just once with L.

When we did dance, L told me which women in the room he was interested in, which is something he's always done because we've been each other's confidantes for ages. Then it hit me that I can't be both lover and confidante. If we're intimate, I want his attention on me. And I'd rather keep what we've always had, that ability to talk to each other about anything. So between that and not wanting to alienate him from my family, I told him the intimacy just isn't worth it for me. At least for now. (I'm still really glad we gave it a try though, because now I don't have to wonder any more.) I told my husband that I really love having that door open but I don't necessarily want to go through it.

I also had my day with C in town, and we did go hiking and have a little coziness out there in the woods, and then some good hanging out with my kids. In talking to my husband the day or two before, he seemed to be pretty tense about having dinner together, so I offered to cancel or move it from our house to a restaurant, but in the end he said he was fine with it, as long as C and I didn't spend the afternoon cooking together as if we two were the hosts. It was a good evening, 6 adults in all, a chance for my husband to see that C was a decent guy, intelligent and interesting, but I get the idea neither of them particularly want to cross paths again, so I won't ask them to. (They'll both be at the same New Year's Eve dance, but in a big crowd.)

All in all everything feels pretty calm and smooth now. I feel really loved and really lucky. No idea where we are all going with this, but the present is happy.
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  #102  
Old 12-27-2011, 01:11 PM
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Magdlyn Magdlyn is offline
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When we did dance, L told me which women in the room he was interested in, which is something he's always done because we've been each other's confidantes for ages. Then it hit me that I can't be both lover and confidante. If we're intimate, I want his attention on me. And I'd rather keep what we've always had, that ability to talk to each other about anything... I told him the intimacy just isn't worth it for me. At least for now.
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  #103  
Old 12-27-2011, 09:27 PM
AnotherConfused AnotherConfused is offline
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Aw, but it doesn't feel sad to me! What felt sad was lying there naked with L that one day, basking in afterglow, and then listening to him talk about his ex-girlfriend. I had to make him change the subject. I've never asked him to change the subject before, in 20 years of friendship. The mantra of our entire relationship is, "Ask me anything, tell me anything." Then I realized I also don't tell him much about C, because he gets jealous (at least that's how it looks to me) and starts to sound judgmental. We had something really unique when we were able to give each other perspective from standing at the edges of each other's lives, but by getting more involved (sexually, romantically) that has been slipping away, and we find ourselves trying to protect each other's feelings by limiting what we say. I already have a fine sex life with my husband, but I need that relationship that L and I have always had, so we are going back (forward) to that. Hugs and kisses and innuendo, and completely uncensored communication.
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  #104  
Old 12-28-2011, 12:18 AM
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nycindie nycindie is offline
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Originally Posted by AnotherConfused View Post
...it hit me that I can't be both lover and confidante. If we're intimate, I want his attention on me.
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Originally Posted by AnotherConfused View Post
What felt sad was lying there naked with L that one day, basking in afterglow...
I didn't realize you were lovers now. I thought you were keeping your clothes on and not having sex...?

But why do you think you suddenly can't talk to him about others and visa versa now? I wonder why sharing your bodies makes it more difficult to be open in your verbal communications. I see sex as a form of communication, and I would think the physical intimacy would have brought you closer in all ways. Are you compartmentalizing the sexual dynamic between you, for some reason? How about examining why you "can't be both lover and confidante" instead of just putting a halt to it? Seems like a good opportunity to learn more about yourself and nurture deeper paths to intimacy and self-growth to me.
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"Oh, oh, can't you see? Love is the drug for me." ~Bryan Ferry
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An excellent blog post on hierarchy in polyamory:
solopoly.net/2014/10/31/why-im-not-a-secondary-partner-the-short-version/

Last edited by nycindie; 12-28-2011 at 12:24 AM.
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  #105  
Old 12-28-2011, 01:27 AM
AnotherConfused AnotherConfused is offline
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I didn't realize you were lovers now. I thought you were keeping your clothes on and not having sex...? But why do you think you can't talk to him about others and visa versa?
What my husband asked for was no penetrative or oral sex outside marriage, so L and I had a sort of play day where we did get very sexual within those boundaries. I'm sure we could work through feelings to make it more comfortable to keep having that, but it doesn't feel worth it to me. It dampened his relationship with my husband, and it made me uneasy.

L has had sex with dozens and dozens of women, to the point where I felt like I was moving from this very special place in his life towards a very well worn common one. Previously, I've loved hearing about his sexual experiences and the insights he has from his large "sample size," telling me all about how women reach orgasms in various ways and so forth. But I don't like being one of those women, it turns out. Maybe that will change someday but right now I'm totally content with what we had before, and he is too. In fact, I don't think it was too great for him, when he doesn't have any regular sex partner, to spend all that time being aroused with only hands for satisfaction. (Even if we did get him there 3 times, which surprised him a bit since he's 67.)

C was the one I had no plans to get naked with. We had that clumsy encounter in his car, and then I felt uncomfortable with that much intimacy given that he rarely has time for me and we haven't had too much opportunity to grow our relationship outside emails. When I explained how I felt he said he had not adjusted his lifestyle to reflect how important I've become to him. Since then we've had nearly daily emails, frequent online chats, and he arranged a full day visit. We are attending a dance weekend together in February, and I'm thinking by then I'll be wanting a little more with him. Although there is always the possibility that he'll find a "real" girlfriend (he wants a monogamous relationship that includes sex, and I can't offer that) and then I'll just be... an ex-not-girlfriend? This also makes me uneasy, knowing I'll get "dumped" eventually. I'm really into him.

On the lighter side, last night I was out dancing and I had this great waltz that made me think of polyamory. I danced with two men who skillfully handed me back and forth in a series of intricate steps. There was constant nonverbal communication between each of us to make it seamless and smooth. One would raise his arm to twirl me under and the other would step in so I'd emerge into his arms, then spin around to be handed back to the first. I felt all this care and attention directed towards me, but also fantastic respect between the men, who were each making sure the other was included with the right amount of space and timing to work for all of us. Ah, I wish love could be learned as easily as waltzing! (Granted, it was a lot more mental and physical effort than dancing with just one partner at a time.)
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  #106  
Old 12-29-2011, 02:33 AM
dingedheart dingedheart is offline
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so you didn't like hearing about women in the room he had an interest in or the sex talk about his ex-girlfriend during afterglow period....this made you feel less special. But you have or had three romantic and physical relationships at the time. Shouldn't be the same for them? Isn't your husband your confidant or you his? Do you think that will then change as a result?
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  #107  
Old 12-29-2011, 03:46 AM
AnotherConfused AnotherConfused is offline
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so you didn't like hearing about women in the room he had an interest in or the sex talk about his ex-girlfriend during afterglow period....this made you feel less special. But you have or had three romantic and physical relationships at the time. Shouldn't be the same for them? Isn't your husband your confidant or you his? Do you think that will then change as a result?
My husband and I share a lot with each other, but I really can't confide in him my feelings, big or small, about other men. I tell him just enough so that I don't feel like I'm hiding something from him, but, "Wow, that guy over there is hot!" is more the comment I would make to a female friend, not to my husband. If he were the kind of man who was turned on by that kind of conversation, you bet I'd tell him, but he's not. He doesn't want to hear it.

L and I have a long history of sharing that kind of talk with each other. He encouraged me in my pursuit of various men when I was single, and I've been giving him relationship advice and encouragement since his divorce. I don't think this would work if we'd ever been potential partners to each other. And it didn't work when we were in bed together. I don't think it has anything to do with how many partners any of us have. I don't want any lovers telling me about their attraction to other women, and they don't apparently want to hear about mine to other men. What L said to me yesterday was, "If I can't tell you, who am I going to tell?" and we knew we'd rather be confidantes than lovers.

I didn't feel less special when L talked about his ex girlfriend. I felt less special when I felt myself shifting from confidante to lover. He could have sex with just about anyone (and has), but I'm the one he tells all his secrets to, and I want to keep that role.
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  #108  
Old 12-29-2011, 07:24 PM
dingedheart dingedheart is offline
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First let me say I'm glad the party was no big deal, that's good.

And I didn't realize your use of confidante had such a narrow and focused meaning.

I thought that this whole journey started because after years of friendship fueled by intimate touching, (dance and kissing ) erotic stories, L's vocal lustful desires, some romantic deficiencies on the part of hubs you felt starved for a greater an more intimate connection to these men. (the sex part) The corner stone of your argument is or was to be free to experience such connections and you were willing to risk your marriage to get that. After a few uncomfortable encounters in which other women are mentioned you want to go back to friends status with L. But you told me once that building their sexual confidence was a great turn on for you...how would you get turned on if they never told you of these desires?
And maybe they or he was trying to turn you on.

What does hubs know of this? what his reaction
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  #109  
Old 12-29-2011, 09:47 PM
AnotherConfused AnotherConfused is offline
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I thought that this whole journey started because after years of friendship fueled by intimate touching, (dance and kissing ) erotic stories, L's vocal lustful desires, some romantic deficiencies on the part of hubs you felt starved for a greater an more intimate connection to these men. (the sex part) The corner stone of your argument is or was to be free to experience such connections and you were willing to risk your marriage to get that. After a few uncomfortable encounters in which other women are mentioned you want to go back to friends status with L. But you told me once that building their sexual confidence was a great turn on for you...how would you get turned on if they never told you of these desires?
And maybe they or he was trying to turn you on.

What does hubs know of this? what his reaction
I don't know if it's really as complex as all this. There always has been and likely always will be a strong sexual attraction aspect to my relationship with L. I am really glad I had the chance to explore that, after 20 years of wondering how it would feel. Now I know that yes, he knows his way around a woman, and is very well endowed, and looks exquisitely beautiful during orgasms, and has unbelievably smooth soft skin. I also know that I'm more comfortable in my previous role in his life, when he could be closer to my husband and kids, and I could comfortably listen to him talk about whatever the heck he wants to talk about. Is this wrong in any way? We're both happy with it.

My husband knows that for now I'm not interested in continuing physical intimacy with L, but he's not interested in the details. I told him I like having that door open though. It feels way different making this choice for myself, based on what feels best between L and me, than it did when we withheld intimacy only for my husband's sake. Just as I love being able to let things unfold with C at a pace that is comfortable for my relationship with him, rather than just feeling like we are bumping up against my husband's boundaries.

I guess you could say that I wasn't risking my marriage for a chance to get physical with L or C. I tried to fix a painful marriage by asking for the freedom to make my own choices in my other relationships. And it worked. My marriage is worlds better now (and not just for me).
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  #110  
Old 12-30-2011, 02:28 AM
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SNeacail SNeacail is offline
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Sometimes having the freedom to flirt and just be yourself without having to worry about what is "appropriate" behavior makes all the difference. Why would it be wrong if it works for both of you?
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