poly or swinging

[Magdlyn]

Originally Posted by preciselove

The reality as I see it is that plenty of people are going to lie about their needs or wants because if they were honest it's much harder to find people that will accept it. The amount of people that will accept someone that just wants to have as much sex as possible is low compared to someone that "wants to find the love possibilities out there and expand their mind".

The reality as I see it is that swinging is all about sex with little to no emotional connection. This movement has been around since the 60's and is fairly well accepted by the public at large.

Now, sex PLUS love with a person other than your main partner? It's a newer idea that many seem to find more threatening and harder to deal with than just plain old getting your rocks off and going home.

There seem to be lots of people here new to poly who could accept their partners *just* having sex, or just having friends, but add the two together and the green monster (not the back wall at Fenway Park, the other green monster of jealousy and envy) rears its ugly head.

[HappiestManAlive]

Then take a multi-partner, love-based poly relationship in which everyone involved is extremely sexual and open minded, who are willing to "play" in a "swinger" type way but who keep that separate from the "poly" side of things...

It makes perfect sense to US - not so much to most others. :shrug:

[preciselove]

Originally Posted by Magdlyn

The reality as I see it is that swinging is all about sex with little to no emotional connection. This movement has been around since the 60's and is fairly well accepted by the public at large.

Sorry the bolded bit made me laugh a bit. Fairly well accepted? Perhaps you have a different definition of that compared to what is in my mind.

People in western society these days are docile creatures for the most part. Most won't get violent and start a mob over such things, or really, anything, so if fairly well accepted to you means a lack of angry mob coming down the street to find the swingers, I would agree.

Swingers to most are like homosexuals, it's something they will never do, but they can tolerate it to some extent. However you would be able to "convert" more people to poly thinking than swinging, by far. It's just how humans prefer things, real connections. I could show the advantages of polyamory in a logical way to anyone with a brain, swinging is merely about short term fun and is incredibly difficult to sell to anyone except sex addicts. Which I'm guessing make up the bulk of the swinging scene.

[nycindie]

Maybe it depends on where you live. I live in NYC and most people I encounter are at least familiar and to some degree accepting of (meaning that they accept it works for others, but not necessarily themselves) swinging, wa-a-a-y more than polyamory -- which most have never even heard of. And then they're puzzled by the love part.

Example: I had a recent conversation with a friend of mine (ex-boyfriend from eons ago), in which I told him that I was beginning to see two people. He asked, "Are you sexual with both of them?" I said, "Yes. Don't worry, I stay as safe as I can," to which he brushed it off, shrugging, and said, "Oh, I'm sure. Well, good for you." Then he paused, with a concerned look in his eyes and asked, "But what if you fall in love with one of them??!!" And I laughed, telling him that indeed love was the goal, but with both of them, not just one! And that while I am enjoying casual liaisons now, I am hoping to cultivate multiple loving relationships that are long-term and committed, blablabla. He looked a bit horrified, and blurted, "Shit, I have enough trouble managing one relationship! I don't know how that's even possible!"

Clearly, he was totally understanding that I fuck more than one guy in my life, but the fact that I want emotional involvement as well blew his mind.

And he is a rather conservative person when it comes to certain things, and would NEVER find himself at a swing party, or even dating more than one woman. But his response is not unusual, in my experience, even in the big liberal city where you think most folks would have come across it more in their everyday lives. Most people are familiar and accepting of monogamy, cheating, of swinging... but poly? Nuh-uh! Loving relationships have the impression of being hard work (yeah, they often are), so who really wants more of that? (that's how most people think, I think)

But again, this seems to be veering off-topic. Sorry, OP!

[HappiestManAlive]

That is BY FAR the most common response I get from people who skip the judging and try to grasp it, lol.

[preciselove]

Is that swinging or just being single and having sexual intercourse that people accept? I thought swinging is when you have a partner and there is an agreement one or both can have sex with others? And in this scenario while many people are aware this exists thanks to decades of culture, it's generally not well accepted by people. At least in my neck of the woods.

If swinging definition has changed to be just sex with no attachment and includes singles then I will probably agree with Magdlyn.

The point still remains though, you can have a logical argument with numerous benefits to all involved with polyamory. With swinging what is the argument? You get more "new" sex. It only really benefits people that want a lot of new sex. So while people may be more fresh with polyamory, it's got convincing arguments that swinging doesn't, at least, some forms of poly.

Of course this doesn't cover the fact that many swingers and sex addicts are in polyamory circles, and that many forms of polyamory are almost identical to swinging, which confuses things. But from my experiences with poly people many of them aren't honest about their intentions (this isn't unique to poly of course) which is a bit converse to the general message of polyamory. Being honest.

[nycindie]

Originally Posted by preciselove

Is that swinging or just being single and having sexual intercourse that people accept? I thought swinging is when you have a partner and there is an agreement one or both can have sex with others? And in this scenario while many people are aware this exists thanks to decades of culture, it's generally not well accepted by people. At least in my neck of the woods.

Well, swingers' clubs get write-ups in pretty all the NYC-centric magazines and blogs (and the established ones like New York Magazine and The New Yorker as well as the downtown hipster ones) and most people here know that swinging's mostly about couples going to clubs and swinger parties for recreational sex. Swinger Parties are big in NYC! You have to get an invitation and submit an application before you are told where it will be held. And Swinger Meetups are popular, too (meetup.com). And I have met several swingers in normal everyday situations. It's just been around longer and is more familiar. But the thought of love being in the equation seems to either scare or confuse people. Most people seem to think it's an either/or choice between swinging and monogamy - where the heck does polyamory fit in? Either that or they expect you to be an old hippie type into food coöps and communes.

[redpepper]

Originally Posted by preciselove

Is that swinging or just being single and having sexual intercourse that people accept? I thought swinging is when you have a partner and there is an agreement one or both can have sex with others? And in this scenario while many people are aware this exists thanks to decades of culture, it's generally not well accepted by people. At least in my neck of the woods.

I was wondering this too. Dating as a single person just by proxy means having sex with many people where I come from. What makes it poly is the love that comes into it and the consent from all those involved.

Swinging where I am is not neceassily about being overly sexual. I know plenty poly folk who get laid way more than swingers, just that swinging is more couple centric, hetro centric and love is almost a dirty word. More organized for sex get togethers than anything else. Nothing to do with partners.

[preciselove]

Originally Posted by nycindie

Well, swingers' clubs get write-ups in pretty all the NYC-centric magazines and blogs (and the established ones like New York Magazine and The New Yorker as well as the downtown hipster ones) and most people here know that swinging's mostly about couples going to clubs and swinger parties for recreational sex. Swinger Parties are big in NYC! You have to get an invitation and submit an application before you are told where it will be held. And Swinger Meetups are popular, too (meetup.com). And I have met several swingers in normal everyday situations. It's just been around longer and is more familiar. But the thought of love being in the equation seems to either scare or confuse people. Most people seem to think it's an either/or choice between swinging and monogamy - where the heck does polyamory fit in? Either that or they expect you to be an old hippie type into food coöps and communes.

Yah, a big city obviously has more potential for these new age type concepts I think. If even like 0.1% of people are swingers, then you're going to have a few thousand in New York vs say 1 or 2 in a small town. And when you have a few thousand people doing something, that kind of message can spread quickly through a populace.

When you consider much of the world is islamic or christian they will likely never accept poly values (with islam there are some poly aspects however) or swinger values. Always handy to remember that I think.

I couldn't imagine living in New York personally though.... seems so contrived. I prefer to sort of collect people from around the world that think like me, internet makes it easy.

[Magdlyn]

Well, I don't know much about swinging, but my gf and I had a 4 way recently with an old ex of hers, and my guy D. This woman, T, is 32 and has been a swinger all her life. She and my gf used to go to swinger things at hotels as a couple back 10 yrs ago, when they were quite young, and my gf was living as a man.

But it's different for her now. She goes to websites set up for casual, swinging type sex, meets men interested in NSA sex that way. Just one on one sex.

It was funny... she told us she tries to not kiss her sex partners, b/c it makes her feel "too" attached. But hell if she didnt kiss the heck out of me, my gf and my guy when we were shagging. lol I think our poly kinda wore on her.

She is not averse to a more commited love-style relationship, and in fact told us about her latest real bf. But she just loves sex with relative strangers as well. Even if they get together more than once, she keeps her distance. For reasons of her own. I don't judge her.

I must say, she was very good at sex, from all her experience! That was a bonus.

But yeah, preciselove, maybe ppl in general aren't really "accepting" of swinging, but they are *familiar* with it from years of Jerry Springer type talk shows, and other media. Shows that feature polyamory seem to cause more distress for people, as far as I have seen.